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[Guest]

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[Ilueri]

Just today, I actually noticed a similar thing. Last night, I had a dream that I had dinner with some family. They said that the kids really missed me since last time, which made me remember I had another dream about this family before. Like you, at about the same time that I discovered tulpas. Spooky. Or it could just be déjà vu, I guess.

[Chupi]

1. I've heard of it and it is possible, but there's a difference between a tulpa and a recurring dream character. What you describe sounds more like a recurring dream with a continuing storyline. Probably doesn't go on running when you aren't dreaming. Kinda like a TV serial.

 

2. Not by much. My dream recall always was and still is crud.

 

3. My dreams are mostly disjoint, random, stupid things that make zero sense. They sometimes draw on recent happenings in my life, and sometimes I get basically the same dream repeatedly. But I haven't had a continuing storyline dream that I know of.

 

Which is weird, as here I knew what my normal personality was like, but then if I lost even the slightest control after this talk I ended up going back and following the "storyline" my brain had set up for this dream. That being me destroying anything government related and trying to get control of the city.

Standard dream behavior. It sounds like you had a brief moment of lucidity -- you were aware of it being a dream, and you were thinking properly. But then you lost that and slipped back into normal dream mode, where you basically run on automatic, playing out ridiculous storylines and doing things you realize are darn silly once you're awake. It just feels like the things must be done at the time, so you do them.

 

What's even weirder is that it seems as though I have a memory system that ONLY applies when I'm asleep and in that dream world, and by waking naturally before the dream ended I was able to bring that back with me.

This seems pretty standard as well. I have the same thing. I don't even know I had a dream unless I wake from it directly. Even then, unless the first words I think are describing the dream, it all slips away in an instant and I can only recall some vague emotional content like "that was a pleasant dream". When I do describe it with words, I start with the moment of it I woke from, then trace it back. I can typically get back to the start of that dream or at least the last nonsensical scene change, since either of those makes a continuity break in the memory and I can't trace over it because what happens after doesn't remind me of what happened before.

 

The other kind of dream recall I can have is when a real-life situation is close enough to some dream I had to trigger the dream memory. Still, I don't get that good a recall this way, more a sense of "I had a dream like this, didn't I?" or a feeling that some event that followed this situation in the dream is going to happen and that I've seen this before.

 

I theorize what's going on here is I have two sets of memories: worded and raw. Worded memories are what I create and experience most of the time when I'm awake. I go around the real world immediately describing to myself what I see (of course this happens automatically and subconsciously). I see a table and think on some level, "black table, shiny, metal legs", etc. Then when I recall it visually, I get only the details I had words for. The rest fills in with pretty generic details.

 

Raw memories are closer to raw sensory data, not yet abstracted into words. These are what I form and recall in dreams, and sometimes if meditating or hypnotized deeply enough. For instance: There's a fence in my back yard. If I look at a worded memory of it, it's fairly generic, but all the details I consciously care about are there, all the things I've consciously observed about it when looking at it. But I couldn't tell you how many pickets there are to a segment -- I've never thought to count them when looking at it, so the line of them blurs into "generic set of pickets" when I recall it. Give me a raw memory of the same fence and I could walk up to it in the memory and count them, provided the memory isn't too degraded.

 

When I dream, I am not consciously processing what I experience; that part of my mind is asleep. Thus, all that forms is raw memories. When that part of my mind wakes up, the raw memories are effectively locked away. Worded, processed memories are all I know how to access consciously. When I describe the dream to myself after waking, I am processing some of the raw memory into a worded one. (Note: the raw memory remains after it's processed, and raw memories are generated when you're awake as well. You just can't get at them when waking.)

 

There's another reason I associate conscious, waking memories with language, even when I can recall them visually. I have a good long-term memory. The earliest memories I can recall are from right around when I was learning to think with language. They sort of fade in then, with memories after that being fairly clear. Ones during that time are kinda fuzzy and vague. Anything before that is completely not there. As far as my conscious memories are concerned, I may as well not have existed before I was thinking with language. (Note: Baby babbling and repeating simple words does not constitute thinking.)

 

During dreams, raw memories are accessible, though the dreams I typically have don't involve doing so, although they're based on memories. I don't (yet) lucid dream, but I've heard you can do things in a lucid dream like make a screen you can use to watch old memories you didn't even know existed. Some tulpas are able to do this as well, since they live in what's basically a lucid dream 24/7.

[Chupi]

So when you're dreaming, how does it feel? Does it feel kind of float-ey or does it feel hyper realistic?

 

Because most of the memories of my dreams are kinda hazy like they're starting to escape me, but I remember being there, and doing whatever. I can describe my surroundings while I was there, but when I start looking at specific details they all change and aren't what they were before. It's really weird, because I can remember conversations I had, like that worded memory you were talking about, and I can remember in vivid detail certain memorable parts of the dream, such as me seeing some crazy futuristic ships in space akin to that of the Star Trek universe, like your raw memory.

Unless I'm at least slightly conscious during the dream, it doesn't feel. I'm not sure I would consider myself sentient at those times. I get memories of them, but it's usually like a memory of doing things, and not of any thoughts that occur. And given the sort of actions and how I react to nutty things in the dream like it's nothing out of the ordinary, I doubt that any thoughts are occurring in me.

 

As for the memories, they tend to be pretty realistic when they do exist, though a lot of details are missing. I suspect when you look at a dream memory and get things that change, those are things you didn't observe in the dream, so your mind didn't even create anything there at the time. When you review the memory, it autofills. Usually for me, the autofill gets written back to the memory, so looking at it again I see approximately the same autofilled details. The more times I look back at the memory, the more solid it becomes.

 

However, I know that not all that detail comes from the dream. Recently when I was waking up one morning, I awoke from a (weird) dream. Unlike usual, I was conscious enough to observe a fresh, untouched memory of the end of the dream, but in a mental state where I could still feel the raw memory. There were plenty of "holes" in it -- details that didn't get created because I didn't observe them. And I didn't observe them because I was running on automatic, in dream-mode. Right now, looking back at the memory while fully awake, the details are either filled in or blurred out, like any other memory. But I remember seeing the detail holes and noting them consciously.

 

I noted from this dream the real difference between a dream and a lucid dream: Conscious observation causes details to be created. In a normal dream, I don't actively observe anything, so far fewer details exist. In something that's closer to a lucid dream, all the details just seem there but flesh out when I observe them. (Same deal as real life really... if I space out and go about doing things, I notice a lot less.)

 

Once processed and filled, a dream memory is about the quality of an IRL memory, though it has a different emotional quality to it. That is to say, it feels somehow different, like it's from a dream.

 

There's an interesting nearly-lucid dream I had last fall that shows that when details are there, they aren't always accurate. I was conscious enough to have thoughts and to note details in a way I could see them when awake. I had some conception that it was a dream, but I didn't have the "this is a dream, I can do whatever I want" realization that makes it turn into a full-blown lucid dream. The dream itself is a long story, but I ultimately ended up examining a dream-person's arms for detail, with the thought that I would record these details for use in enhancing visualization of my first tulpa, Lyra. It all felt normal and reasonable in the dream. But when I woke up and looked at all the fine details I'd noted, I could instantly see that somehow this dream-person's arms were entirely unrealistic.

 

Either way, this 7-month long continuous dream I've been having I have a memory and even an actual life running along in there, but I normally can't remember any of it in the waking world. I wonder how much of this my Tulpas could access, and if this would be a better way to interact with them and in the process learn a bit more about this expansive world I've got stored away in my mind.

 

A tulpa can observe it if they can figure out how to. Similarly, you can most likely observe it yourself with some meditation and/or possibly tulpa-aided self-hypnosis.

[Linkzelda]

Do you guys think it's possible that I might have a Tulpa that exists only in my dreamworld?

 

If you want to really believe that, I guess it can be like that. How people distinguish between dream characters and tulpa, it's really subjective, and it depends on how people look at these kinds of things. For me, before I even knew the concept of tulpae, I was into lucid dreaming to the point where I had moments where I talked to dream characters that were full sentient like tulpae, fully aware that I was dreaming just like I was, and those feelings were so mind-blowing that I would wake up becoming attached to those moments.

 

I've had a couple of friends I would comment and have conversations about on the DreamViews website where they had dream characters that were so complex, that they could easily transcend into being a tulpae in this reality. The person themselves was able to manipulate the dream world, or have a mind that could easily give them a "Sandbox" type of reality where anything is possible. People who probably don't think too much about the dreaming world can easily state that tulpae are completely different from dream characters, but from personal experience of logging at least 1,300+ dreams since June 2011, I can tell you that I don't see much difference due to one simple realization:

 

FOCUS.

 

If you don't focus much on these dream characters, if you don't try to find meaning in them (even if it's apophenia, self-fulfilling prophecies, etc.), they won't even come close to the level of focus you have for your tulpae. However, because I was more accustomed to analyzing my dream characters more, and even when Eva claimed to have been my dream guide (and my over-obsessive goal to find her in my dreams), I see tulpa and dream characters as similar (mostly) because I know they're all in my head.

 

It depends on where you started first:

 

- If you weren't fixated on dreaming life as much, and/or finding ways to induce lucidity in dreams, and you found the concept of tulpa first, you'll usually shift into passing off dream characters as lesser forms compared to tulpae. Because you're usually in the type of behavior anyone that doesn't really put much interest into dreaming has. So in a way, when you're trying to balance out what's really "sane" in this world, things are usually difficult to overcome or get over with.

 

- But if you were into dreaming and did techniques, learned concepts, etc. related towards non-lucid and lucid-dreams, you would have a different perspective on the distinction between dream characters and tulpae. For me, because I had many many moments where dream characters gave this emotional vibe that would be stuck in my mind for days, weeks, and even months, and coming into the concept of tulpae, I would view tulpae as an extension of how dream characters work.

 

Things usually aren't as black and white as what I stated above, but generally from my own experience, that's what I'm seeing for this forum and dreaming forums.

 

Of course, tulpae are unique in some way, but I feel it's the amount of focus that's the major factor (but not only factor). Just depends on where you started first.

 

 

Has having Tulpas affected your dream recall?

 

It's kind of hard for me to say, I personally believed that when I asked Eva to help my recall my dreams, I had a better time describing my dreams and remembering them more. It could just be my subconscious helping me out with showing snippets of what I experienced in a dream, but I also feel it's due to my practice at increasing my dream recall since June 2011. Some people told me I had an abnormal level of recall, and I personally seen people who've had even longer lucid and non-lucid dream recall.

 

So my answer and opinion to this question is that it's subjective. If you have a vocal tulpa, or a tulpa that starts out showing images (giving indirect communication), you could say they play a crucial factor in affecting your recall, but it depends on your level of focus into believing that. I know that sounds weird, but it's just one of many concepts I learned related to dreaming. If you focus yourself into thinking it and believe it to be so, it will be that way for your perception of reality.

 

 

 

Does anyone else experience this weird "dreamworld" thing I was talking about?

 

 

Yeah, countless of times, and sometimes I would often ignore them because they were frequent when I just started out recalling my dreams. I was battling through intense desires of escapism vs. accepting how the way the world works and how I react to the situations and people in my life.

 

The mind definitely is amazing in making convincing moments, and there are times where we feel there's time dilation (or for some people in the dreaming community call it "deep dreaming") in dreaming. I guess it just depends if the person really felt they were in a dream for 6-7 months (not comparing to waking life time of course). It could mostly be due to them having significant moments where all the minor details were in gaps and not acknowledged as much. For me, I believe deep dreaming is possible because of FOCUS. The more you focus on something, embracing the dream environment, the dream senses, the complete solitude in an almost solipsist way of dreaming, dreams can seem very long and very intense.

 

But even with this amazing ability within our minds, I think it's healthy to try and find out why things work out the way they do, so that we focus less on it being "magic" and more of understanding how our mind works. And that itself is another complex journey :P

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the questions!

[tania]

 

- But if you were into dreaming and did techniques, learned concepts, etc. related towards non-lucid and lucid-dreams, you would have a different perspective on the distinction between dream characters and tulpae. For me, because I had many many moments where dream characters gave this emotional vibe that would be stuck in my mind for days, weeks, and even months, and coming into the concept of tulpae, I would view tulpae as an extension of how dream characters work.

 

Things usually aren't as black and white as what I stated above, but generally from my own experience, that's what I'm seeing for this forum and dreaming forums.

 

Of course, tulpae are unique in some way, but I feel it's the amount of focus that's the major factor (but not only factor). Just depends on where you started first.

 

Im coming from a Lucid Dreaming background like the above poster and agree with her/his post. This has made me not jump to at all to "oh my tulpa is a sentient being" cause it was able to do this or that. Maybe our tulpas are little more then a kind of daydream we end up creating? From lucid dreaming Ive seen that parts of our unconsciousness/subconsciousness (or whatever word one prefers to use on this forum) can act like with life of its own... dream characters often do that and are able to act like real people as many LDers will tell you.

 

So how is sentience really determined in a tulpa in a way its distinishable from a dream character our subconsciousness has put together? I find the whole distinguishing thing confusing due to my experience in LD and how those characters act like with wills of their own at times. It's hard for me to see my tulpa as much more then a manifested dream character.

 

When I said 6-7 months, I didn't mean in dream, I meant for the past 6-7 months I've been going back to the same dreamscape, and I couldn't remember any of my dreams from that period until now, where I remembered all of it (but over the course of today I've forgotten most of it, I might remember more tomorrow morning)

 

I think many of us like live out consciously another life in our dreams. I had a dream years ago in which I lived out a life for a very long time with a different family etc. I think they were dream characters, creations of my subconsciousness, unless I want to go all metaphysical and think there is more to it then that (who really knows).

 

Some people who lucid dream.. explore their dream world over time and will find they have their own dream town created from their subconsciousness. They find themselves going to to places in their town over and over again.. and possibly often come across the same dream characters unknown in real life, too.

 

So there is the big questions people should ask.. how does one tell a sentient appearing dream character who has appeared over and over again to the point the character becomes familiar, from a Tulpa?

 

I think many at this site may be great at entering daydream states and may actually have dream characters esp when their tulpas arent interacting with them when they are fully awake etc

......

 

I believe I have a physical life, a life while Im asleep (im remove this comment if its too meta) and on top of that a standard dream life where all kinds of random nonsense kinds of dreams happen.