Spartanelete

Making tulpas in Dreams?

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Has anyone accidentally done this yet?

 

So, last night I had a dream in which I had a 10th tulpa in the form of Talon from League of Legends assisting me in some kind of fight. I can't remember everything from the dream, but I do remember that I recognized him as a tulpa although it was a dream.

 

But after I woke up he was still there in my mind and I had totally forgotten that I don't have a tenth tulpa.

 

Later in the morning I remembered that I didn't have him as a tulpa originally and then sadly I told him I'm sorry that things had to end this way and goodbye... Then just got rid of him. Because I don't think I'm ready for 10 tulpas yet...

 

Note: The dream was not lucid.

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Guest Anonymous

As I'm pretty sure somebody has already said, there's no way the brain can make enough connections to make (or simulate) another consciousness in that little time, meaning that what was there when you woke up was almost certainly little more than an intrusive thought.

 

So creating one on accident in a dream is not possible? Not completely.

A while ago a person that now left for reasons I don't know, started an interesting progress report.

A few months before she knew about tulpas a certain dream character started to appear regularly, and was a lot more "alive" than the others.

I (and I'm pretty sure the same person too) believe that this dream character was a tulpa that was starting to form.

However from what I remember this began months before she started forcing, and even after that she had to force for a good while before she was able to hear her in waking life.

 

So the beginning was accidental, even though bringing her out to waking life was a conscious effort (who knows, she might have gotten to a full tulpa state even without her host's help one day)

 

 

 

WARNING! DOUBT CAUSING TEXT AHEAD! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!

(Also contains personal opinions to be taken with the generally recommended amount of common sense)

Ok, I know we're supposed to take everything as your tulpas response, and doubt is almost a taboo for most tulpamancers, but I feel like I should point something out about your 9 tulpas.

I remember you posted a thread about making tulpas way too easily a few days ago, saying that you make them within minutes accidentally.

I think you are taking the "assume it's always your tulpa" thing way too far. If I was you I'd seriously ask myself if I really created 9(!) other consciousnesses in my head, or if I'm just having intrusive thoughts for many of them.

As I said earlier creating something as complex as a tulpa takes time and lot's of it usually.

 

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Underestimating what the mind does in dreams

 

 

>goes by hearsay and makes implications that the mind can't make connections in terms of non-lucid and lucid dreaming and thinks OP is addressing only waking life tulpa creation process

 

 

http://community.tulpa.info/thread-i-seem-to-have-a-problem-with-making-tulpas?pid=78550#pid78550

 

@Dreamy, you're just like that other person I responded to in the link above. Just putting that out there so you can collect those people in your skewed conceptual presumptions on "brain can't make another type of consciousness in such a short period of time" for dreaming and waking life. (And it's obvious you're mixing that with tulpa creation in waking life vs. tulpa creation in dreaming life)

 

Do notice that OP is addressing something in his dreams and is just panicking if he has to apply the creation process of those other dream characters into his waking life, not something he's trying to induce in waking life. Huge difference.

 

Tulpa in dreams

 

Anyway, Spartanelete, when it comes to defining thought-forms in our dreams and thought-forms in waking life, there are so many differences that makes it hard to make a practical definition on Tulpa, since they are all thought-forms, just in different levels of awareness in the states of consciousness we go through day and night.

 

However, because you're focused more on the interaction with the tulpa in waking life, you have to realize that tulpas in our dreams vs. the tulpa we decide to create, build a totality of sentience, sapience, and all sorts of factors that makes them a tulpa to us in waking life have tremendous gaps. In terms of waking life, because of the restrictions and so many mental barriers that are naturally built up in waking life, it's impractical, unless with intense practice and probably years of experience, to have 10 tulpa in that short period of time.

 

Now, for your DREAMS in particular though, it is possible to have a thought-form that can be just as sentient, sapient, and such simply because of how many restrictions are lifted off when dreaming non-lucidly or lucidly. For people like dreamy to go by hearsay on how the mind can't make enough neural connections to emulate the "consciousness" of a tulpa (and people tend to forget it's implied separate consciousness that eventually becomes more complex that one makes the deduction that they're a "separate consciousness") are spewing non-sequitur with what the mind is capable of. When it comes to lucid dreaming in particular, depending on one's competency level in all sorts of aspects like:

 

  • Dream recall
  • Being able to stabilize themselves in their dreams
  • Having a decent sleeping schedule and/or being able to shift awareness into dream-like or dream states
  • Dream control (summoning dream characters, flying, reality checks, and all sorts of things)
  • And much more

It's possible for one to create tulpas in lucid dreaming, but the challenge is actually transcending that into waking life, since one is more limited consciously in waking life compared to lucid dreaming and non-lucid dreaming. Even with these restrictions, it becomes a matter of having certain categories of Tulpa (thought-forms), and in OP's case, tulpa in dreams. People who declare that the mind can't make enough neurological connections in dreams to create a sentient, sapient, and overly-competent entity obviously haven't had any experience themselves in lucid dreaming endeavors.

 

I've stated the majority of this already in the link above, so I won't repeat myself, but in short OP, don't worry too much on the amount of tulpa in your dreams. They just have a different category of "dream characters/dream entities/dream beings," and we all go through countless numbers of these thought-forms in our natural sleep. The mind can easily make connections in terms of the dreaming aspect on these types of thought-forms. However, for waking life, it's safe to presume that it would take longer, UNLESS the person has some experience stacked on to their overall competence level in being more aware of things than usual. The tulpa we interact with in waking life are the ones we would have more investment in, and we as host tend to shift around with them in Wonderlands (dream-like state) and other forms of shifting consciousness.

 

There are mental exercises (i.e image streaming, self-hypnosis, meditation, etc.) that can be trained for months, years, a lifetime and allows one to have a higher level of visual thinking and maximum potential intelligence as well. It's things like these (mostly image streaming) and much more that Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison practiced, because they were individuals that did any kind of mental exercise that could provide significant improvement in their intelligence.

 

When it comes to lucid dreaming and creating sentient and sapient thought-forms, depending on just how aware, receptive, and experienced you are in that, you can easily make thought-forms like nobody's business, simply because you're more synched with the unconscious' potential of creativity and making near-perfect models of realities. But in this case, there's a different type of "weight" on the effort compared to waking life, and people don't really view dream characters in the skewed definition that goes in a myriad amount of ways of the word "Tulpa."

 

It heavily depends on how the person can use lucid dreaming as a supplement in creating their tulpa in waking life, but mental exercises to train themselves to have something similar to what they experience in dreams will always take practice, and time. People on this forum usually focus more time on the tulpa creation in waking life, where they have restrictions and have to build those neurological predispositions to make the experience "second nature" to them and expand their awareness and intelligence more. There have been people, like in the link below:

 

http://articles.tulpa.info/amadeus-exodus-a-tale-of-tulpa/

 

They have been able to interact with Tulpa that they have certain categories and labels for (just for the sake of conceptualizing the varying degrees of thought-forms of course). Tulpa, or dream characters in dreams obviously would be easier to create and even model from because of the potential you can tap into with lucid dreaming. But in waking life, unless you're those types of people that can easily shift into varying levels of awareness in certain mental states, creating and having one tulpa in waking life is already intensive enough during the initial stages.

 

I modeled my tulpae in waking life from the ones I still interact with occasionally in my dreams (and I just have the belief that they're the same both in waking and dreaming life, and this may change when I reach better visual imposition with them). And again, people will have their own opinions on whether or not the tulpa in dreams are the same tulpa we create, but when it comes to thought-forms and their similarities, whether you think it's a:

  • Self-fulfilling prophecy
  • Selective attention
  • Apophenia

 

And all sorts of psychological predispositions in terms of reality and dreaming, it really comes down to your belief of being able to build rapport with your tulpa in all aspects of awareness and consciousness. Just know creating tulpas in waking life has its limits, but you can train yourself for it. And with dreaming, there's less burden to bear consciously because the unconscious mind has better flexibility in the creation process. And it's always going to have some role in waking life as well, just in more structural and a bit more linearly because we tend to consciously view things like that (but can be seen laterally with practice of course).

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Guest Anonymous

It seems to me that a good deal of our disagreement lies in what we think a tulpa is. I'm apparently a lot stricter than you when it comes to labeling something as one.

You were talking about thought-forms. While I might agree that some thought-forms are tulpas, there are many others that I would not define as such. A character of a novel you just read can be a thought-form too, but that doesn't (in my mind) make it a tulpa, even though it can have hours put into it. Also just because I think a dream character is a tulpa that doesn't make it one. Yes, it's true that a lot of this is belief, but by that logic every dream character is a tulpa, and I don't think that every dream character is sentient, even if not independent. (and I don't think that believing it changes the situation too much)

 

Now, you said that it is a lot easier to create a tulpa during dreams because certain barriers that are there during waking life are down. While this is true and might make the creation process easier it doesn't give you near magical tulpamancing powers.

I don't think that what you are able to create in a few minutes, or an hour if it was a really long dream, is more than a seed of which you might create a tulpa through further effort and concentration, and it's likely not really able to speak on it's own.

 

The reason I linked to [deleted user]'s PR is to show that even though lucid dreams might make it easier it still took months of both dream and wake forcing to create a tulpa capable of speaking while the host was awake.

 

My point was that it most likely was only him thinking that it is a tulpa, and not it actually being one, by my admittedly arbitrary definition. (although it might have developed into one with time)

 

[edit: user-requested anonymization -Chupi]

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As I'm pretty sure somebody has already said, there's no way the brain can make enough connections to make (or simulate) another consciousness in that little time, meaning that what was there when you woke up was almost certainly little more than an intrusive thought.

 

So creating one on accident in a dream is not possible? Not completely.

A while ago a person that now left for reasons I don't know, started an interesting progress report.

A few months before she knew about tulpas a certain dream character started to appear regularly, and was a lot more "alive" than the others.

I (and I'm pretty sure the same person too) believe that this dream character was a tulpa that was starting to form.

However from what I remember this began months before she started forcing, and even after that she had to force for a good while before she was able to hear her in waking life.

 

So the beginning was accidental, even though bringing her out to waking life was a conscious effort (who knows, she might have gotten to a full tulpa state even without her host's help one day)

 

 

 

WARNING! DOUBT CAUSING TEXT AHEAD! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!

(Also contains personal opinions to be taken with the generally recommended amount of common sense)

Ok, I know we're supposed to take everything as your tulpas response, and doubt is almost a taboo for most tulpamancers, but I feel like I should point something out about your 9 tulpas.

I remember you posted a thread about making tulpas way too easily a few days ago, saying that you make them within minutes accidentally.

I think you are taking the "assume it's always your tulpa" thing way too far. If I was you I'd seriously ask myself if I really created 9(!) other consciousnesses in my head, or if I'm just having intrusive thoughts for many of them.

As I said earlier creating something as complex as a tulpa takes time and lot's of it usually.

 

 

Only 3 of my tulpas I know would be classified as "intrusive thoughts", but I still took the time to work on them, but less work was needed since they already came with a personality. Just because they started unconventionally does not mean they cannot be made into the same end-product, a tulpa. And I am absolutely sure that my 9 are not just constant intrusive thoughts, but you could easily take that as host bias.

 

I find it absurd to think that for EVERYONE, making a tulpa WILL ABSOLUTELY take months without taking into consideration so many factors that could affect it: how long the person's been doing tulpamancing, has the person practiced things that would affect process and speed of tulpamancing, mental status of the person, and so many others that I/we may not even be aware of.

 

A big factor I'd assume would be practice.

 

 

The one from yesterday though, I didn't realize he wasn't one of mine till the afternoon. So, we had talked a bit and had so fun in the wonderland. He'd even impose himself just as my own tulpas would. I can't say that absolutely makes him a tulpa, but he was so similar to a tulpa.

 

 

And also, the dream wasn't lucid.

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@dreamy,

 

The thought-forms we interact with in dreaming or waking life, it's fairly simple to deduce that people who invest more time in a particular thought-form (going through the stages from the tulpa through existential matters (sentience, sapience, form, personality, character, etc.) are what we would generally believe makes a tulpa. But this is just scratching the surface.

 

When I declared "thought-forms" in the label of dream character/dream entities/dream beings or any form that our minds can think of, I did not have any implications that I would forward that same "weight" (or investing time) in all thought-forms in the application of existential parameters to make them the type of "tulpa" this forum has a universal definition on.

 

We all at some point use the pinnacles of what would constitute as a tulpa in our reality and derive from those rudiments, like below (but not limited to):


  •  
  • Vocalization (Mostly the Auditory Imposition after Mind-voice Interaction is at a decent level)
     
     
     
  • Visual Imposition
     
     
     
  • Possession/Switching (where the host and tulpa can exchange interchangeably where the tulpa(e) can finally understand gradually what it's like to be human, to be mortal, to be able to conceptualize predispositions of death, physical ailments, feelings, etc.
     
     
     
     
  • Parallel Processing
     
     
     
  • Etc.

 

I'm well aware that at some point, we have to draw some red line on what is a tulpa in waking life, but at the same time, even when you mention thought-forms in your dreams as a seed, or a precedent for building a tulpa in waking life (which I already mentioned), a person can still have a tulpa that they would meet in dreams, but not necessarily waking life all the time.

 

What actually are determining factors is when the host applies existential parameters, concepts, pinnacles, etc. and invests those aspects towards a tulpa. Which is why that even though one may not hear their tulpa in waking life that started out in their dreams (where they applied those existential aspects and invested time into that thought-form), the thought-form in the dream can be considered a tulpa, just in the dream sense. Because remember, that investment of time with applying existential aspects the person takes in all realms of awareness and states of consciousness (that we label as dreaming life, waking life, etc.) that helps make a tulpa, a "Tulpa."

 

Just like tulpa people only interact in wonderlands, the same concept applies in dreaming. I never stated anywhere that one obtains a deus ex machina (the magical ability that seemingly solves these constraints we have in waking life compared to dreaming life). My definition of tulpa most likely isn't that different from yours, they're concepts most members agree with, it's just how we approach them is different. I don't think that all thought-forms in my dreams are all tulpas because I don't apply the heavier investment in existential aspects and such towards all of them, because my definition of it (which is constantly updating) is how I apply existential aspects towards those thought-forms.

 

Which is why I acknowledge there are tulpa(thought-forms) in dreams that are experienced temporarily and fade away, but they still have that level of sentience and sapience like the ones we're making in waking life most of the time, it's just that we're aiming to invest more time into them compared to those other thought-forms that had potential, but we didn't apply enough existential aspects towards them.

 

And even with that, the unconscious mind and how it creates sentience and sapience for thought-forms in dreams (even ones that are temporary in our natural sleep) is honestly more powerful in terms of the potential it can produce. So while you may not have that same way of thinking that's possible, I'm stating that it's probable the moment the host makes the attempt to treat those thought-forms as sentient and sapient; where they push that line a bit more and apply more existential aspects and all that entails from those aspects, that's the basic deduction (but not absolute) most people who make to have a tulpa.

 

I simply stated that one can achieve the type of awareness and intelligence SIMILAR to that in the dreaming sense, never stated it's a deus ex machina. (Ironically though, this forum still harbors people who ignore the neurological predispositions made in creating a tulpa, and I'm not directing this to you dreamy, just to those people who've went through that level of thinking). It takes practice, time, and devotion, and the person you addressed on their PR, you can't really rely on one case scenario with his/her progress or even a few people.

 

Because then you have to see how they apply those existential aspects (auditory imposition, possession/switching, visual imposition, etc.), that they would consider to be the rudiments of what makes a tulpa a tulpa.

 

Then you have to see how much time they invest in making those aspects real to them, how much they treat them as sentient, sapient, and competent individuals. Just because it takes one person months in general, doesn't mean it applies for everyone, that's why I've stated you're simply using non-sequitur by little anecdotal evidence and testimonials from few people.

 

It's not too improbable for the mind to conjure up sentience with that many tulpae, it just requires some level of competency in many areas of intelligence that stacks onto the host learning how to consciously interprets and interact with the unconscious mind to bring about that sentience, or better yet, the overall existence of a tulpa.

 

And what starts that is simple faith, that without a doubt, the moment that person applies the existential parameters, concepts, pinnacles, etc. towards a tulpa, they treat them as so, they treat as sentient and sapient beings, and they PRACTICE it by DOING (mental exercises, making lifestyles, etc.), and constantly making progressive strives for improvement in the totality of their bond with their tulpa(e).

 

That is what makes the difference here, the whole "believe in yourself" and the unconscious, because of how the unconscious mind follows along with that belief to make those predispositions a reality to you. That's what separates the thought-forms that we temporarily meet, and the thought-forms we invest time in applying those existential aspects; that is what separates the people who make thought-forms in a few months compared to those who took years to make one.

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It's not too improbable for the mind to conjure up sentience with that many tulpae, it just requires some level of competency in many areas of intelligence that stacks onto the host learning how to conscious interpret and interact with the unconscious mind to bring about that sentience.

 

And what starts that is simple faith, that without a doubt, the moment that person applies the existential parameters, concepts, pinnacles, etc. towards a tulpa, they treat them as so, they treat as sentient and sapient beings, and they PRACTICE it by DOING.

 

That is what makes the difference here, the whole "believe in yourself" and the unconscious, because of how the unconscious mind follows along with that belief to make those predispositions a reality to you. That's what separates the thought-forms that we temporarily meet, and the thought-forms we invest time in applying those existential aspects; that is what separates the people who make thought-forms in a few months compared to those who took years to make one.

The excess amount of agreement I have with this statement cannot have anymore agreement because I agree with this so much already.

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Guest Anonymous

 

Only 3 of my tulpas I know would be classified as "intrusive thoughts", but I still took the time to work on them, but less work was needed since they already came with a personality. Just because they started unconventionally does not mean they cannot be made into the same end-product, a tulpa. And I am absolutely sure that my 9 are not just constant intrusive thoughts, but you could easily take that as host bias.

 

I find it absurd to think that for EVERYONE, making a tulpa WILL ABSOLUTELY take months without taking into consideration so many factors that could affect it: how long the person's been doing tulpamancing, has the person practiced things that would affect process and speed of tulpamancing, mental status of the person, and so many others that I/we may not even be aware of.

 

A big factor I'd assume would be practice.

 

 

The one from yesterday though, I didn't realize he wasn't one of mine till the afternoon. So, we had talked a bit and had so fun in the wonderland. He'd even impose himself just as my own tulpas would. I can't say that absolutely makes him a tulpa, but he was so similar to a tulpa.

 

 

And also, the dream wasn't lucid.

 

I never said that if they started as intrusive thoughts they'd have to stay one. If you really took your time to force them to turn them into tulpas, then good for you, although 9 still seems like an excessive number to me, but whatever. (depends on how long you're practicing this, I don't know, I assumed you've just been doing this for a few months)

What I was saying though is that they didn't start out as tulpas, but as intrusive thoughts, and you had no obligation towards them to keep them.

 

I also never said it has to take months for everyone, not even for the first tulpa, but one dream? The longest REM period lasts only an hour, and even if one is an expert tulpamancer that seems like an unrealistically short period of time (Even more so if you count that it's unlikely that he was there that long, REM starts with 10 minute periods and he very well might just have popped up in the middle of it, but I don't know how long it actually was obviously).

 

Also you said he imposed himself. That can mean 4 things (if it was really himself and not you, in which case I'd have to compliment you for being so good at imposition)(also that's obviously just what I think):

 

1) You misunderstood what imposition is. It is actually perceiving your tulpa with your real world senses.

2)He actually is a tulpa that developed to the point of being able to impose himself without your help in that little time, in which case I'd have to say sorry and admit that I was wrong, which would suck.

3)You have a condition that causes you to hallucinate, in which case the "it really is a tulpa" hypothesis would no longer be necessary.

4)You're roleplaying. You never know on the internet.

 

Ok, and now let's finish reading Linkzelda's response (why do you have to always write such long answers? XD).

 

and the person you addressed on their PR, you can't really rely on one case scenario with his/her progress or even a few people.

There are no other people that I know of that had the same experience, so I can only redirect to her PR. Also since we don't see tulpas popping up at every dream it's safe to assume that it's at least a very rare thing. You do have a point though.

 

About the rest you said, I get that you think that it is indeed possible for your mind to create a tulpa in such a short time if you put in the belief and work, right? And that it might even exist for as short as one dream, correct?

Well, here we'll have to agree to disagree, at least until some actual scientific evidence points in one or the other direction.

Personally I believe that these would still only be dream characters, with the difference that you believe they are "real". I think they are just simulations like all others, while a tulpa has thoughts behind them, wherever real or simulated doesn't matter (that's an open debate).

It's perfectly ok if you keep thinking like you do, you might be right after all, but for me the contrary seems more realistic, sorry.

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So you're willing to state that dream characters are simulations like all others, but end up with the idea that tulpae are an anomaly from that, that they're not part of a simulation that the mind eventually makes a more complex system with sentience and sapience.

 

Again, you're misinterpreting things I've stated already, and you're trying so hard to make a dichotomy here with Tulpa (tulpa tulpa) and dream characters. You're still using non-sequitur here simply because you're adding an exception for Tulpa with,

 

while a tulpa has thoughts behind them' date=' wherever real or simulated [b']doesn't matter[/b] (that's an open debate).

 

Doesn't matter?

 

Are.

You.

Kidding.

Me?

 

Let's destroy this whole forum guys. Screw Science, screw basic logic. Forget this whole forum's purpose of hopefully trying to see if the thoughts of tulpa (that can be fabricated just like any other dream character) as something that can eventually be made "real" in terms of experiential truth for the host. Forget basic competence in how the mind works in general when people state something like this. Let's roll with deus ex machinas guys! Really starting seeing how this forum is shining.

 

This is a person that wants to sugar-coat the definition of a thought-form in general. All thought-forms come from the mind, created by mental energy, dream character or tulpa, the same deal. Unless you have evidence that tulpa comes from an other-worldly dimension, what I quoted you there just now is just non-sequitur. Dream characters/entities/beings come from the confines of a person's mind, same with tulpa, there's scientific evidence with how processes like Mind's eye, imagination, visual thinking, and such work out.

 

You're placing this naive meaning that because they have thoughts behind them that they're different from the thought-forms in dreams, or even different just by simple imagination and meditation in waking life (lolwut). Ever consider that they're all within the confines of your mind? That a dream character can have predispositions, and thoughts and have better interaction with the unconscious mind just like tulpa can? Even though this phenomenon is sustained by heavily philosophies and beliefs, you're missing something simple with Lucid Dreaming in general and just basic association with what's currently known with how science studies the mind and consciousness in general.

 

With Lucid Dreaming being a scientifically proven phenomenon and how the mind works in general with creating thought-forms in dreams, and how it can easily make them as sentient and sapient as the tulpa we set in waking life and wonderlands, it shouldn't really be too hard for anyone to use what's already known and associate that with tulpa.

 

Dream characters are figments of your imagination, tulpa are figments of your imagination, they both require the mind to build neurological connections to exist to the person interacting with them, each have their own means and methods from the mind in general to bring about their existence. We go through exercises in waking life to bring about sentience, sapience, etc., we treat them as sentient through our demonstrations of practicing and going through a back and forth motion with doing things and contemplating with imagination. We invest more time into them in waking life, we can do the same in dreams (especially since practicing how to use the hours we sleep as a way to become aware in another state of consciousness is probable with practice). Obviously not just one single dream, but multiple dreams as well, the same with wonderlands where the person goes into a dream-like state and/or uses mind-eye's to imagine it.

 

And you're not paying attention to what I'm saying in making tulpas in relation to dreaming. Just because you wake up one morning doesn't mean the person can't attempt to induce lucidity/or just let things happen non-lucidly, or just contemplate and do dream incubation to meet the tulpa in the dream again (people who aim to have dream guides or whatever entity they label these thought forms that are more sentient and sapient than the rest of the dreaming characters).

 

I don't think OP in this case was making any presumption that he would make a full-fledged tulpa in one dream alone, but if he makes strives for more encounters with said thought-form, the more he wants to meet this thought-form, the more he applies (keyword being "more," which means frequent encounters and attempts like in waking life) those existential concepts similar to what we do in waking life, he will get the same effect.

 

Your model of what a tulpa is and how you set existential parameters (because they have thoughts behind them, but dream characters don't have that same potential apparently) is the epitome of a person engaging in naivete, and not a mindset of practical worldliness with reality and the mind in general.

 

And the more you add words like "without your help," and other linguistic syntax that basically screams "conscious, conscious, conscious," you've twisted and turned your model of tulpa to the point where tulpa have some dichotomy with the conscious and unconscious mind.

 

But hey, if you believe your idea that this below,

while a tulpa has thoughts behind them' date=' wherever real or simulated doesn't matter (that's an open debate).[/quote']

 

and this,

 

What I was saying though is that they didn't start out as tulpas' date=' but as intrusive thoughts, and you had no obligation towards them to keep them.[/quote']

 

is your actual means to distinguish dream characters from tulpa, to distinguish that their origins (the realms of your mind), then sorry, your "realistic" approach is honestly as delusional as people who want to make tulpa a dichotomy from the human mind. Tell me what makes the tulpa you have any different in origins as any other thought-forms you imagine in your natural sleep and occasionally throughout the day?

 

How do you set the existential parameters and concepts that didn't make your own tulpa start out as series of hallucinations, simulations, neurological predispositions that is similar to dream characters and any other thought-form?

 

 

The reason why I give long answers instead of being laconic is because people don't really think that well with their own means of defining tulpa. It's usually the people that are a little hard of thinking with how the unconscious mind plays a more dominant role in the tulpa creation process and any thought-form creation process (dream characters, etc.)

 

The repeating reinforcement with these long answers is for me to see whether or not you can expand a bit more with your non-sequitur and the classic "agree to disagree."

 

 

Do people seriously do enough research with basic neurology, dreaming, consciousness, etc. in general before giving these naive definitions between thought-forms in general like this below????

 

What I was saying though is that they didn't start out as tulpas, but as intrusive thoughts, and you had no obligation towards them to keep them.

 

 

......while a tulpa has thoughts behind them, wherever real or simulated doesn't matter (that's an open debate).

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Short answer: Yes.

 

I have yet to create a 'tulpa' without the character first appearing in a dream. In fact, I have no real interest in a 'forcing' process at all, and prefer deep meditation and REM for thoughtform creation.

 

For me, dreams and waking experiences are separated by malleable, fluid barriers, particularly when I meditate or partake in some other activity which alters my higher functioning. If I'm able to take the time needed to slip into an altered state, the actual creation of a so-called sentient 'tulpa' can be extremely rapid — minutes to hours.

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