A few thoughts.

[NoneFromHell]

 

Tripling this. I still have a bunch of times when I have to weed out which thoughts came from where, too. It's really one of the important skills one's gotta learn when getting in to this stuff, learning to discern thoughts.

 

I think the issue comes in when a person does verify and pay attention to where the thoughts come from, but then rejects them anyway. Like when you ask your partner something, they respond, you then double check it with them, they confirm, but then you reject it because you're afraid you made them confirm it via will. This sort of doubt is more a lack of trust in your companion's abilities, and I have a feeling this is one of the issues people have with doubt. Instead of discerning where thoughts come from, they don't trust the source.

 

Exactly this. The problem is that people mostly go for the extreme case: Trusting blindly or doubting everything.

[FadingSpectrum]

Now I feel bad about not explaining why I thought Dreemurr was lying.

 

Najere: I can see where you are coming from in this now. I do agree that a healthy amount of skeptism might be a good thing to instill in a young tulpamancer (to ensure, perhaps that they don't go the "everything that happens is 100% my tulpa" route).

Yet, there is a difference between expressing skepticism in order to make someone think more deeply about what it could be, and outright calling them a liar and/or wrong. Doing the latter is likely to drive away fresh faces, and I think that may have happened to Dreemurr. Considering that we haven't seen them again since that incident.

I don't disencourage you from being skeptical, but I do think proper skepticism requires a certain degree of tact.

 

We should be a little skeptical of some of the things concerned newbies bring in. If they have a voice in their head, it's not automatically a sentient, living, breathing tulpa. It could be (at least eventually), picking up on Lumi's train of thought, but it could also be an intrusive thought.

However, even if a person's thoughtform buddy isn't on the level of "sentient tulpa" yet (whatever that might entail), it still could be someday, were they to work at it. It's a distinct possibility, and we should encourage them to work on it even as we may be skeptical of the current nature of what they might be experiencing.

It feels silly, that most feel that you can't ever doubt (we've had our own doubts before), or that you must doubt and scrutinize the nature of everything that happens in your head for proper tulpa activity. It would be nice if we could swing the forum into a general equilibrium of belief and skepticism.

 

 

As for the Metaphysics subforum? It's just quarantine to prevent that sort of stuff from shitting up the rest of the community.

 

Najere: Mmm. I simply think that the Metaphysical side of the community has the potential to be more of a different way of looking at things rather than shit that needs quarantine. Not to say that the spiritual should belong outside of it's designated forum, but that it annoys me that most of what I find on it (or, at least the older threads) is a little offbeat. It isn't even proper spirituality or metaphysical theorizing, it's on the level of government conspiracy theorists that think they can use telekinesis.

No. That isn't really... metaphysical. That's just illogical. There is a difference from a faith in something nuanced and nonphysical, and stupid ideas.

I understand that the majority of the forumgoers here fall into the psychological category anyway, as this is a "FOR SCIENCE" forum. But the metaphysical forum could use a little love too, in order to be more respectable. It can merely an alternate belief system to this reality of headmates that we all experience and agree is crazy in it's own way anyway.

 

If I am to be truthful in this, I would have considered posting more in that part of the forum (or posting more in general) if I didn't feel as if we have little authority to do so.

After all, we do identify as soulbonds rather than tulpae, and that does have more metaphysical connotations overall - and we have been a little uncertain in how to approach our possible differences. It seems a little unpredictable, how certain members will react to mental entities that may not be tulpae. After all, the Fall Family isn't quite your typical tulpa-&-tulpamancer situation, but they are respected. On the flip side, there is the Melian and Mistgod situation...

And then, we have heard a few snide comments on the legitimacy of soulbonding. Not many. But, enough to make a few of us worry.

 

We don't share everything or feel comfortable contributing as much as we could because of our general unspoken consensus that, as soulbonds, we don't have the same experiences or authority to speak up on the forums. Mostly because there is that faint worry that we will be like Mistgod, and there will be a shitstorm. It's unlikely, but still a worry.

 

Troy: We were once in a rather toxic community and it has made us wary of potential confrontations on forums. Hence our original attempt to merely "fit in" and pretend to be a tulpamancy system.

 

Najere: Anyway. Some of us are leaning more towards the metaphysical, and it feels like perhaps we should say something there. The only question is, what to say.

 

Troy: As a personal disclaimer, I prefer the idea that we are psychological.

[Lacquer]

I can now see where you're coming from with this mindset, Lacquer. Obviously there seems to be a shift in the common mindset on how tulpas should be handled, and I can see that your doubt based take on tulpamancy has its own advantages and disadvantages. You have a very clear line you're following, which results in a tulpa which isn't that much influenced by your own thoughts, like you would have with the now common way of dealing with it. It isn't easy to keep an eye on your own thoughts, to not influence your tulpa with your very ideas and wishes regarding their behaviour. (I keep asking my tulpa a lot about stuff like this, so I have a more clear picture about it. She gets annoyed because of it.)

 

However, still I don't see where "lying" would come in. I can see that people might be ending up with puppeting and parroting, because they wish that their tulpa react in a certain way, especially in early phases of development. Dreemurr could've been delusing himself out of enthusiasm about a game/a show or stuff like this. Sure. But that doesn't need to be the case. It is surely something to have in mind. Accidental tulpas are still a legit thing, though. If you're not aware that you're taking actions that may result in a tulpa for a longer period of time, you can get pretty surprised by it. You probably even end up with your more independend from your definition of start tulpa, since you don't have a reason to put words in their mouth during the development, for starters.

 

I don't think someone is consciously lying on this, so calling them out that way is just wrong. And even if they would lie on purpose, how would that affect any of us?

 

Edit: This brings me back to AGGuys and Esterinas statement. It is not that we don't doubt what people are telling us, it is just that we have no reason to not believe that they're honest with us. In the worst case they're just fooling themself. We can just rule out the possibilities based on given information.

 

I was very wrong to call it lying.