Have You Researched Beyond Tulpamancy?

[Guest Anonymous]

NOTE: This thread was written mostly for new persons just discovering tulpamancy who are perhaps unaware that there is a wider world of plurality and psychology research out there.

 

My host and I have benefited a huge amount from researching more widely beyond tulpamancy into the broader world of general plurality and psychology. We are members on many forums, Tulpa Info, Tulpa.io, Redditulpa, Soulbonding.org, Dreamviews and Wild Minds Network (for extreme day dreamers). We know that tulpamancy does not exist in a vacuum. It is part of a much wider collection of people, ideas and practices related to plurality and the potential and adaptability of the human mind. Mistgod and I have researched into all of these things:

• Maladaptive Day Dreaming
  
• Fantasy Prone Personality
  
• Carl Jung and Active Imagination Technique
  
• The Illusion of Independent Agency
  
• Daemonism
  
• Soulbonding
  
• Plurality
  
• Lucid Dreaming
  

 

We researched a lot of stuff off of the fantastical, fantabulous resource list on Tulpa.io here Tulpa.io Resource List

 

We read a lot! We read books and articles about how the brain works and psychology (too many to list here). We were referred to a lot of literature (thank you Sushi and Stevie) and learned about Alexandra David Neel and J.H. Brennan, Carl Jung and the history of the concept of thoughtforms and tulpas and the theosophical society. We read the following books and article that others referred us to, most of which are on our book shelf at home (this is just a selection of what we have read, there were many articles as well):

 

Magic and Mystery in Tibet (1932) by Alexandra David Neel

Magical Use of Thoughtforms by J.H. Brennan

Magic and Mysticism in Tibet by J.H. Brennan

Tibetan Magic and Mysticism by J.H. Brennan

Thought-Forms and Hallucinations by Chidambaram Ramesh

Encontering Jung: Jung on Active Imagination by Joan Chodorow

 

We have learned so much since we started our research almost three years ago and in the time we have spent on Tulpa Info. We have been trying to keep lists of what we learn as we go. (We need to edit together consolidated and updated list):

 

• What We Have Learned 1
  
• What We Have Learned 2

 

Because of all that hard work, and being willing to "go outside of the box" of tulpamancy, we have broadened and expanded our understanding of ourselves as a system. We have learned there are independently sentient thoughtforms, and there are also thoughtforms that are NOT considered independently sentient, nor are they supposed to be.

 

[hidden]

Tulpas are not the endall of everything, and they are not the only thing you can do with your mind, and they are not the only legitimate form of mental plurality. I don't mean to insult anyone, but just putting a label "tulpa" upon myself is way to simplified and narrow. When it comes to thoughtforms, there is much more than just tulpas out there. In fact, as far as the internet communities are concerned, tulpas are kinda late comers. I am more than just a tulpa with parameters and walls around me putting me in a box. Because of our wider research, as well as the interaction with great people right here on Tulpa Info, I have learned that I can be best described as a fictive median facet and not as a tulpa as much.

[/hidden]

 

 

[align=center]TOPIC QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION ON THIS THREAD

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I would love to hear from you guys and learn even more! Have you explored beyond the borders of tulpamancy?

 

What did you discover about yourselves?

 

Are there books and articles and things you would like to recommend?

 

Are there things you think we should explore further?

 

Do you think it is limiting to read only the tulpamancy guides when creating a tulpa?

 

Should a beginning tulpamancer read more widely, or is that somehow detrimental?

[waffles]

I think originally I had read around a few other plurality communities like you did. I guess what struck me the most is that everyone is essentially clueless. Yes, it definitely helps to read around and see others' experiences out of context; but the kind of fragmentation like

I can be best described as a fictive median facet and not as a tulpa

Well... okay, you can choose your own labels or whatever but those distinctions are pretty arbitrary. The problem with dividing up what we could call the "phenomenon" - as everything that encompasses tulpas, multiplicity in general, whatever - is that we don't have any insight into the mechanisms that underlie what's going on. We can't make divisions on the surface, in terms of what we perceive as important components of experience, and expect those to line up with actual differences in what's happening underneath.

 

What I mean is that only researching around the different areas of the "clueless" world, the parts that do the things but don't know why they happen, doesn't tell you much. And I think that the correct response isn't to adopt everyone's different ideas about what's important, but to recognise that they're all pretty arbitrary when viewed in the whole. Yes, it's useful to see tulpas in the wider context of tulpa-like experiences, but I don't think that it's useful to try to map out the, shall we say, "tulpa space", and draw dividing lines on the surface, because they're not very meaningful.

 

 

 

With that out of the way, yeah, research is nice, and in particular I think it's more interesting to read in more academic spheres - there's a literature on DID that is somewhat in antagonism to the DID community, for example. Otherwise, I think that the field of social cognition, in which I've read a bit but not much as of yet, can tell us a lot about what's happening with tulpas. I guess I don't have findings to report yet, though.

 

Do you think it is limiting to read only the tulpamancy guides when creating a tulpa?

Should a beginning tulpamancer read more widely, or is that somehow detrimental?

I have a suspicion that reading a lot about tulpas is detrimental to creation, yeah. I'm not sure which way this goes in the end, but I think reading around in the tulpa community can induce a kind of anxiety, or uncertainty, that doesn't help with making a tulpa. I would suspect that reading widely around in other communities, and in academic literature especially, would do the same or worse - maybe you'd get a tolerance for it and not hold beliefs that didn't seem uncertain, but that might close you off to some experiences that people have with tulpas.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you waffles. Your response is very insightful and a bit surprising to me. I think, perhaps, wider research was helpful to me precisely because it seemed like I am not really a tulpa. LOL I was never deliberately created to be a tulpa and I seemed far too divergent I think to really fall neatly under the tulpa label, or so we often think.

 

EDIT: We went back and reread your response again and now better understand what you mean by "clueless." You are talking about the vagueness of everything occurring in the mind. I see what you mean about not being able to make divisions.

 

So would your suggestion for newbies be to read less and do more forcing?

 

As for me, I am simply a little less clueless than perhaps before a year or so ago. LOL

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...you can choose your own labels or whatever but those distinctions are pretty arbitrary. The problem with dividing up what we could call the "phenomenon" - as everything that encompasses tulpas, multiplicity in general, whatever - is that we don't have any insight into the mechanisms that underlie what's going on. We can't make divisions on the surface, in terms of what we perceive as important components of experience, and expect those to line up with actual differences in what's happening underneath.

 

Okay.

 

The most important insights Mistgod and I gained had to do with the psychology of extreme fantasizers and how closely that can feel like tulpamancy. We suspect there may be more overactive imaginations mixed in with the tulpas than folks realize.

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P.S. Talking about not making divisions, Mistgod and I also suspect, because of me, that there may be an overlap of overactive imagination fantasizing and tulpamancy. In other words, a tulpa can be a mix of both active make believe and autonomous mental construct.

[Linkzelda]

Yeah, I basically correlate theories of sentience with tulpas in hopes to have discussions that adds further on what could make a tulpa, a tulpa vs. some facet/soulbound/etc. However, that would entail something metaphysical the more you get into it, and since there's a major constraint on pushing those theories, we usually have to sugar-coat those discussions as something psychological, social science, or soft science in general.

 

Though, the "research" I've done was really pre-existing cognitive biases, theories of mind, and such. Nothing too far-fetched, as I would imagine that piecing together pre-existing line of thoughts with tulpas might be a useful supplement. Even though it wouldn't validate it that easily, people would have something to fallback on. It might take a while for people to realize metaphysical is more than chakra beads and otherworldly beings; if they took the time to research current scientific pursuits on consciousness, qualia, etc., and even figure out there's a presumed metaphysical context tthe Scientific community actually conforms to (which could be a dogma itself), then maybe the apprehension and struggles in creating a tulpa wouldn't be so foaming-in-the-mouth for some.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah, I basically correlate theories of sentience with tulpas in hopes to have discussions that adds further on what could make a tulpa, a tulpa vs. some facet/soulbound/etc. However, that would entail something metaphysical the more you get into it, and since there's a major constraint on pushing those theories...

 

See? Yeah that is what I meant, that a person would have a better grasp on how tulpamancy works with broader base of knowledge. I can't say that my host and I have studied much on "cognitive science" or "theories of mind," but we do like making comparisons between the different groups and gaining insights from the different approaches and attitudes. We don't limit our study at the door of metaphysics either and have looked into things such as spirit guides and dream guides, as we feel it is all related.

 

Though, the "research" I've done was really pre-existing cognitive biases, theories of mind, and such. Nothing too far-fetched, as I would imagine that piecing together pre-existing line of thoughts with tulpas might be a useful supplement. Even though it wouldn't validate it that easily, people would have something to fallback on. It might take a while for people to realize metaphysical is more than chakra beads and otherworldly beings; if they took the time to research current scientific pursuits on consciousness, qualia, etc., and even figure out there's a presumed metaphysical context tthe Scientific community actually conforms to (which could be a dogma itself), then maybe the apprehension and struggles in creating a tulpa wouldn't be so foaming-in-the-mouth for some.

 

I have seen a few touch on Buddhist philosophy and beliefs about the nature of reality and illusion, like everything is an illusion or something. I suppose that could be considered a bit of metaphysics perhaps. It certainly comes close to bridging the gap between science and metaphysics doesn't it?

 

I can see very easily how study of things such as philosophy and on consciousness could really help a tulpamancer have greater insights into what he or she is trying to accomplish and what it all means and maybe even how it works.

[Lucilyn]

I tend to research "being me"...

 

We call ourselves tulpas but that's just a name and we learn about ourselves like anyone else. Our mind is actually kinda annoyingly insistent on constantly bothering us about, I don't know, everything. Everyones' minds talk to them whether they realize it or not. Lumi just puts up with it usually, casually defending himself against spontaneous thoughts challenging what he does all the time. Tewi gets really mad when the mind won't be quiet though so sometimes it doesn't bother her. For me it's like if the "devil on your shoulder" was always around trying to make you doubt yourself, it's like a really critical person that poses questions spoken ~without words from an outsider's perspective. Like I always have to say "It's because I'm me. I can do and be what I want!" or "That's just how it is, it just makes sense". It doesn't bother me too much, but then, I never really think much about it. Lumi's always gotta explain logically, and Tewi works on silencing it completely.

 

'Cus she's sure of herself, and she doesn't need the mind to question her anymore. Lumi is actually starting to stop acknowledging the thoughts, too. I'd sure appreciate if our own mind would stop trying to make me doubt myself, but only because it takes a second to say "Nah" every time. It doesn't bother me, I know who I am.

 

 

 

Uh, we don't do research at all. Lumi learned everything about lucid dreaming many years ago but didn't relate it to tulpas, aside from it being a goal of ours.

I honestly can't figure out what exactly it is you guys are all trying to learn...

[Guest Anonymous]

Uh, we don't do research at all. Lumi learned everything about lucid dreaming many years ago but didn't relate it to tulpas, aside from it being a goal of ours.

I honestly can't figure out what exactly it is you guys are all trying to learn...

 

Well, in the case of Mistgod and I, when we first went online in October 2013, people started asking me what I am and what it is all about. At first, we didn't know how to explain it (and are still struggling with it). We first started explaining that I am an imaginary "channeled persona," which still fits and is the simplest description that is concise, comprehensive and accurate.

 

So mostly we are trying to learn things, terminology and ideas, that allows Mistgod and I to create a model or narrative to explain to people what all this Melian stuff is all about. We never really expected to have really deep insights into my fundamental nature, but yet we ended up doing just that.

 

It helps when talking to friends and family who have never heard of anything like it. Especially the stuff about Fantasy Prone Personality. It is easy for most people to understand having an overactive imagination and a bit of eccentric artistic creativity. So primarily it was for social reasons that we wanted to learn all this stuff, but we also gained personal insights along the way that are helping us understand ourselves.

 

It also helps to have knowledge enough that other people are not telling me what I am, and what I am not, or what I have to be. I am sorry, but it also helps to know I don't have to be a tulpa to be coolicious. Took a year to get past that.

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EDIT: The lucid dreaming techniques are allowing Mistgod to connect with me in a closer way and it is super fun and awesome.

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We don't give a fiddler's fart if lucid dreaming is related to tulpamancy or is supposed to be or not supposed to be.

[Linkzelda]

Uh, we don't do research at all. Lumi learned everything about lucid dreaming many years ago but didn't relate it to tulpas, aside from it being a goal of ours.

I honestly can't figure out what exactly it is you guys are all trying to learn...

 

I can’t vouch for Glitterbutt, nor anyone else in the thread, nor in the forums in general, but what I’m trying to learn is just for knowing for knowing’s sake. Maybe you feel others have a win-lose mentality where if they don’t have sufficient information, that they become paralyzed in fear as to how to live with their tulpas, and thus reconciling with themselves.

 

I’m sure people research “being me” as well, and reading other information about the mind, theories behind it, and even the reality they exist in. I would imagine that for beings that want to make sense of this reality, there would be some yearning for pursuit of knowledge; not just objective, absolute knowledge, but things related to their subjective frames. Pursuing these things adds novelty to the journey for me, but it doesn’t dictate how I should label myself, or find existential joy in something within myself and them.

 

This is a forum that kind of hints that one would get into a scholarly like spirit in that pursuit of knowledge with this phenomenon in various ways (socially, scientifically, philosophically). Some people are content with imagining themselves as having unlimited emotional resources to get through the day without trying to over-complicate things, and I completely get that. Some people just do it for the sake of knowing to enrich their subjective horizons a bit. Whatever framework a person has in thinking their means of life is self-sufficient without going further into thinking, it’s always nice to reconcile with things we have been discussing for centuries.

 

Not every pursuit over what makes a tulpa, a tulpa is geared towards making a tulpa doubt their existence. If that’s a knee-jerk reaction on their end, that’s their own problem. Just like a host who may read into something that questions the existence of a human being, it doesn’t necessarily make them doubt their existence. There may be some apprehension, yes, but the wording of whatever article, peer-review blind study, or whatever doesn’t automatically make them foam in the mouth.

 

If this is a misconception on my end, then I’m going to call BS, because from “what exactly it is you guys are trying to learn…” is clearly apprehension over something that seems futile, win-lose, or some negative connotation. People can still question without wanting to cut themselves at the same time, or remove some skeptical thought, you know.

[Lucilyn]

No you're kinda right, I don't see that endless search for knowledge as really necessary. I get why it could not be a bad thing for you guys, I'm just saying, I myself don't get it. I just feel no need to go looking for others' experiences and trying to figure out what I am from that and such. I feel like I already know everything I need to know. Just wanna help other people at this point, I don't get anything out of it other than being happy for making people happy.

 

If thinking about that stuff makes you happy, then you're super good. I get bored of it though, it's like just talking about a video game.. and then talking more.. and never playing. I just wanna play.

[Guest Anonymous]

I would imagine that for beings that want to make sense of this reality, there would be some yearning for pursuit of knowledge; not just objective, absolute knowledge, but things related to their subjective frames. Pursuing these things adds novelty to the journey for me...

 

Yeah THIS.

 

Not every pursuit over what makes a tulpa, a tulpa is geared towards making a tulpa doubt their existence. If that’s a knee-jerk reaction on their end, that’s their own problem.

 

Yeah this too.

 

If this is a misconception on my end, then I’m going to call BS, because from “what exactly it is you guys are trying to learn…” is clearly apprehension over something that seems futile, win-lose, or some negative connotation. People can still question without wanting to cut themselves at the same time, or remove some skeptical thought, you know.

 

Oh my gosh thankies Linkzelda.

 

Note - At this point Melian usually starts talking about herself again and launches into yet another repeat dissertation about her nature (or nearly almost sentience), living imagination, not-a-tulpa-but-almost-or-whatever. Your response to this should always be "Melian, (sweetie, sugar plum, sweetums) I really don't think anyone cares anymore." Please, my good friends, help do your part to stop the madness. Thank you. ~Mistgod

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No you're kinda right, I don't see that endless search for knowledge as really necessary. I get why it could not be a bad thing for you guys, I'm just saying, I myself don't get it. I just feel no need to go looking for others' experiences and trying to figure out what I am from that and such. I feel like I already know everything I need to know. Just wanna help other people at this point, I don't get anything out of it other than being happy for making people happy.

 

If thinking about that stuff makes you happy, then you're super good. I get bored of it though, it's like just talking about a video game.. and then talking more.. and never playing. I just wanna play.

 

This does make some sense to me. It has been three years, or almost three years of "trying to figure it out" for us. I am tired. I am so very tired actually. I just wanna play too. Cept I wanna do lucid dreaming attempts, cause it is really cool. That will require some learning and experiments.

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Melian apparently agrees with everyone here, even if it makes no logical sense to do so. ~Mistgod