Have You Researched Beyond Tulpamancy?

[Linkzelda]

No you're kinda right, I don't see that endless search for knowledge as really necessary. I get why it could not be a bad thing for you guys, I'm just saying, I myself don't get it. I just feel no need to go looking for others' experiences and trying to figure out what I am from that and such. I feel like I already know everything I need to know. Just wanna help other people at this point, I don't get anything out of it other than being happy for making people happy.

 

If thinking about that stuff makes you happy, then you're super good. I get bored of it though, it's like just talking about a video game.. and then talking more.. and never playing. I just wanna play.

 

This is just an addition to what I mentioned before with why we even bother caring in knowledge pursuits. While it doesn’t seem all that bad to just embrace being oneself, and in this context of a tulpa who is confident of their capacity of sentience, and awareness to even arrive at that acknowledgment, it’s what most people would want out of this experience. But, to have this confidence reducible to just blind faith seems to be a dangerous thinking; I dare say it would be a form of an irrational way of thinking. And although there are moments where a person has to make a leap of faith, I can’t imagine a tulpa embracing such content in being them without having some strive to actualize themselves in a manner to know what they’re even arriving to these emotive states of being content.

 

And I’m not trying to put this in context of Spock, or any other symbolic representation of pure logic. To not actually do anything without creating some kind of value-judgment, an attribute a presumed sentient being like humans/tulpas has the capacity of doing, seems to contradict the pursuit of wanting to treat them as sentient in the first place. You can be content with researching being “you,” but why do you want to? It’s that “why” that anyone can avoid, but to do so while rejecting that one has to make a value-judgement to even answer seems to make me believe there’s the luxury of the host’s prior experiences, knowledges, and cognitive reservoir that would make a tulpa inclined to feel that these knowledge pursuits aren’t really that necessary.

 

It almost seems to hint at a belief of epistemological nihilism, where it’s basically denying the possibility of knowledge and truth; correlate that with pursuits of knowledge in any context with what you mentioned with researching being “you,” that pursuit of researching being “you” is something you feel is necessary. Necessary in regards that you made a value-judgment that it’s something of interest that can coincide with your pursuit of happiness. So for you to question why we’re bothered by knowledge pursuits of varying degrees (or, in this case, pursuits you’re over-hyping that requires some sage old person to think about) is to question why you’re bothered in researching being you, and all that would entail (e.g. primitive appreciation of being sentient without going further than that).

 

If knowledge pursuits aren’t that necessary to you, then there’s no point in you having any pursuit of happiness because that would have to entail some kind of knowing; I don’t mean knowing in an objective sense, but knowing in arriving at a value-judgement to acknowledge this is a strive of yours that you want to pursue. If anything, it’s sort of a self-contradiction. This is why I suggested that if you wanted to help us, you can help by not caring and pursuing in these threads; as to not care, and to not believe it's necessary to pursue these things, especially if we can correlate them with the phenomenon, your statement of it not being necessary would be the antithesis of the forum's ulterior motive. It's not me saying for you to get out to be a meanie face, but rather, acknowledging that you're neglecting what the forum seems to be striving for.

[Guest Anonymous]

The more knowledge you have, the more tools you have to solve problems and understand and deal with the world around you. That goes for every area of potential knowledge. Your body of knowledge is your "toolbox of ideas" or your "arsenal of thought." The smaller that set of knowledge is, the less prepared you are and the less you get out of the journey of life.

[Tewi]

Unfortunately, that makes sense to me, Linkzelda. But I can feel her response - "Why think about it so much? Just living and learning as you go is enough.", or something like that. I honestly don't understand her either.

 

She does have our past experiences to go off of, but she claims her mindset is independent of them. I'm going to be completely honest here, I don't think we can logically discuss this with her. She thinks on a completely different wavelength and I myself haven't been able to figure it out. She's not ignorant, in practical scenarios she seems just as smart as me. And yet she doesn't do much of what I'd call "critical thinking" on, well, anything that we tend to discuss here. Maybe it's our previous experience, maybe it's intuition. Whatever it is, it works for her. And I actually find it more efficient. But, I haven't been able to figure out how or what it even is she does. So it's not done me much good.

 

Anyways, it's not relevant to our discussions here. The problem was that her method of thinking doesn't lead to these types of discussions in the first place, not that she had a problem with them once they've started. Though from what I can tell most of the time that she has participated in these types of discussions, she's simply put what Lumi or I have thought into her own words. It gives the illusion that she actually does care to think about this stuff, but she's only using our experience to help others, not figuring it out herself.

 

Ah well. You had a good point that she shouldn't literally discuss how pointless she finds discussions, so she's trying not to do that now. Even though that's what the forum's all about, she said she wouldn't stop posting. Aside from just then I don't think it's been a problem.

[Linkzelda]

I'm sure she'd be a fan of Occam's Razor, I guess.

 

 

I also apologize for what I stated because even though I had the feeling she was using experiences, memories, competencies, and such from you all in a convoluted manner, I didn't want to jump the gun so soon. But you see, this is the type of thing that's intriguing; that makes a person want to venture outside of tulpamancy, and go into a pursuit of knowledge. Especially in regards as to how a tulpa can have that convenience of using pre-existing, cognitive competencies and processes to try and put words into context, and yet not really understanding them all too well, or at least not until they build more experiential context.

 

That is the type of thing that I think is relevant to the thread because it could make one speculate if tulpas really come pre-packaged with advanced context-applying facilities in the first place. Or in layman's terms, to make sense of things they're putting into context rather than just intuitively creating an impromptu response that they didn't glance over twice. Don't worry, I'm sure I'm a victim of this along with my own tulpas. Hell, I think I know why sometimes I rub my head on the things we're typing too. I think that impromptu style has a unique sense of intelligence to not really overlook things too much; but what dampens the blow, and makes it less fatiguing for them is that experiential fallback that's strong at base level for them to cherry pick. Tulpas sure can be lucky, you know.

 

 

OMG, someone understood me. Woo!

 

Lucilyn: Pure, unadulterated ability to use intuition based from pre-existing competencies, memories, and experiences on the fly while having to deal with the assumption from others that she may not be the brightest tool in the shed, but the potential to apply this intuition and associative memory is SCARY, and invalidates the previous assumption. Next level tulpaing, yo. SCARY. I don't think you all should undermine that potential -- if the base level goes up with pursuits of knowledge, her intuition and application of it will only become more efficient, but may still have that bare rocks style to it.

[Tewi]

I didn't really come here to talk about how amazing Lucilyn is, but I would say it's the latter yeah. She seems to surpass us (Reisen and Flandre) in almost all aspects of "being a tulpa" (not in "being a person"). She's quicker to become "active", her voice is clearer, her visualization is clearer, and the only reason she isn't better than me at what I do is she has no motivation to do it. But you probably figured that out already. She's not fond of schoolwork and the like, which often simply entails reading a textbook, which I enjoy.

 

Anyways, none of us including Lumi and I post on the forum 'for us'. Selflessness is selfishness in that even selflessly helping others is done to make you feel good, but otherwise we're only here to help people. We learn more about people than tulpamancy since most things don't apply to us, but I suppose in the long run you'll never know what peripheral information ended up shaping your beliefs and actions. At the very least, it does act as an anchor for tulpa-related activity and maybe serves as a conduit for that journal-writing type of learning where you simply learn in the presence of no new information.

 

Basically, we're too self reliant to actively take advice. Seeing things work for others (even through it being implied from being given advice) is added to our knowledge of "things that work for others", and we may draw upon that later, but we're too stubborn to take anything at face value. And we've got most of our beliefs well established by now. You guys don't tend to talk about what's relevant to us at this point, because it's too personally custom to our own beliefs (and how our mind works as a whole).

 

 

I find it funny how you're ending your posts with true layman's statements now. It is a bit ridiculous, but it really may be all some people understand/bother to read of what you wrote. It's a decent compromise.

[Guest Anonymous]

I find it funny how you're ending your posts with true layman's statements now. It is a bit ridiculous, but it really may be all some people understand/bother to read of what you wrote. It's a decent compromise.

 

Wow, you two are getting a lot of mileage out of my thread! It inspires me to keep coming up with these, sometimes I get lucky and create a compelling topic. Well, that is at least I am good as starting arguments between people and then slinking away. LOL

 

I like the simplified summations or laymen's synopsis at the end of a giant text wall full of jargon. It does help if you are in a hurry. You never know, Linkzelda may begin to throw in Melian speak silly cutsie words into his responses to me and end with "huggle lovies sweetie pie!"

 

Naw.

 

Some of Linkzelda's postulations require terminology and concepts you are required to google it and learn about though. Forced to learn, it is so horrible! I am always ready with my google it button when I read a Linkzelda. Sometimes I don't understand the google it either so I just make my laymen's interpretation and move on with my more than likely happy skippy Melian misinterpretations.

---

P.S. My host is of no help what-so-ever, the big dolt.

[Linkzelda]

They spend more time being confused over said terms that can be googled vs. the few seconds it takes to type 'define: -insert word here-' For the few other members that use a bit verbose wording, I always end up doing that same thing and think, "oh cool, didn't know that was another synonym for that." I guess researching beyond the search engine in their browser is more of a hassle; it gets even more ironic when it could be members who complain about newcomers not using the search function in the forums. Maybe we're being too optimistic for those that researched beyond tulpamancy. But anyway, that's my closing statement for this thread, and I apologize.

 

But that event with Luci did make me think of more threads in the future to talk about, fortunately, so thank you.

[Guest Anonymous]

I wish the search function on the forums worked a little better. I end up making my own reference index with links to useful threads we find.

 

Yeah I liked this thread too. I will try to think of some more.

[Tewi]

For the few other members that use a bit verbose wording, I always end up doing that same thing and think, "oh cool, didn't know that was another synonym for that."

 

Just yesterday from reading Waffles' posts I had to google "orthogonal", which I assumed was some kind of geometric term, and "bromide", which I literally knew was a bromine ion (chemistry). Turned out they both had other uses, and I found it rather interesting he even encountered those words himself.

 

But that event with Luci did make me think of more threads in the future to talk about, fortunately, so thank you.

 

Well that's good. Seems in the end any ~undesirable misconception-discussions with you still serve to generate new ideas, and that's all we're really trying to do here.

 

 

Search function works fine for me. Because I exclusively use it to find what I already know I'm looking for. Can't say we've any experience searching the forum for something we didn't already know about, because we've read basically every thread posted in in the last two+ years.

 

We also keep a list of our posts that may be reused to answer repeat questions in detail.

 

Oh, also, you can use " site:community.tulpa.info search terms here " to google-search instead of forum-search stuff. I figure Google is as much as you can ask for in a search feature, so.

[sushi]

Just yesterday from reading Waffles' posts I had to google "orthogonal", which I assumed was some kind of geometric term, and "bromide", which I literally knew was a bromine ion (chemistry).

 

That's neat. I just learned more meanings of those as well. To me, orthogonal has always meant the way a rook moves, as opposed to diagonal, the way a bishop moves.

 

I know bromide from Chrono Trigger. An old man trades you something valuable for a bromide of an attractive female monster. I looked it up on the past, and found out that he was looking for a kind of picture, so I always assumed that a bromide was like a pin-up. Now I see that I was wrong -- bromide refers to the kind of paper, and has nothing to do with the image on it.

 

There's a Mark Twain quote: "High and fine literature is wine, and mine is only water; but everybody likes water."

 

I try to write water as well. I may use obscure words sometimes, but when I do, I try to define them. I imagine I'll reach a wider audience if my readers don't have to figure out on their own what somnambulism and the Esdaile state are, just to understand what I'm saying.