Retroactive Fantasizing: Altering Our Own Memories

[Guest Anonymous]

I am poking fun at you silly. Humor rarely translates in text. No worries I know you are not scapegoating or criticizing my terms or being a meanie.

 

Linkzelda I love you very much in a internet buddy sort of way.

[TheGreenQueen]

I remember reading that when people 'recall' a memory more than twice, they are actually recalling the last time they recalled it. i.e., it gets progressively fuzzier.

 

I have a very poor episodic memory.

 

I seem a prime candidate for FPP and retroactive memory modification- especially because of that.

 

I've caused myself quite a bit of distress over what I picture should be happening in my life and never actually sitting down to do it. >_> One of my best friends has this even worse than I do.

 

But in context of tulpas, no, I do not think I've retroactively modified any memories into more real-seeming than they were.

 

It helps that our memories are always in third person despite not experiencing anything in third person, I suppose the mind is used to making up what it thinks it actually looked like was happening.

 

I am so glad to hear someone else say this. My 'out of body' memories seemed pretty weird!

[Guest Anonymous]

I think that the sensitivity to this idea is because maybe it is being misinterpreted as an veiled attack on tulpamancy. I don't mean to say that altered memories mean that tulpas are not real. I am just saying that we modify memories to make some things seem bigger or more amazing than they really were. I mean I am saying my host and I do that and I am just wondering if it is possible others do it too. Perhaps it was a mistake to link this question to the process of making tulpas.

 

My apologies to everyone. It was not my intention to criticize the process of tulpa creation in any way or to imply that it is false.

---

I remember reading that when people 'recall' a memory more than twice, they are actually recalling the last time they recalled it. i.e., it gets progressively fuzzier.

 

I have a very poor episodic memory.

 

I seem a prime candidate for FPP and retroactive memory modification- especially because of that.

 

Cool! Maybe my host and I are not so weird after all!

[Tewi]

I am so glad to hear someone else say this. My 'out of body' memories seemed pretty weird!

 

It's totally not something I can explain, discuss, or defend. It just happens that way. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of others that experience the same, though I don't think it's universal. I like it though, because it integrates your awareness of your environment at the time into a convenient perspective, even if it's slightly less accurate with the details it didn't know.

 

Also your mind recreates memories rather than "remembers" them. Recalling an old experience (that you haven't before) has your mind recreating what you remember so that you can experience it (usually in a lot less detail, and inaccurately) again. Recalling something many times however begins to make you comfortable with all of those missing or pseudo details, and sure as you are of the memory you've no doubt strayed from the original. This has happened with our "The one nightmare we ever had" story. I know for a fact the original recollection of the dream was far less detailed (or perhaps, more detailed) than the story we remember today. Don't think it causes any real harm though.

 

Actually, it doesn't. Not in scenarios like that. The real problem is when you're acting as a witness - the Law knows full well witnesses don't know what the heck they're talking about 90% of the time, and we've documented proof of that well. People are really good at creating memories of what they think they should have seen, with their own biases. So if you're ever in that scenario, please take care to remain unbiased as possible.

[Guest Anonymous]

I feel I wrecked yet another thread idea. I always get into trouble! Every time we write on this board it seems like we are ruffling feathers. We are trying to spur some thought and also share insights we are having about ourselves. We are trying to understand the process going on in our own minds within the larger concept of tulpamancy and plurality.

 

I feel crappy now. I didn't mean for this to mean anything other than a fancy thought, but now I go back and read my OP and the last question seems like a dig. It wasn't.

 

I forget not everyone thinks like Mistgod and I do, "Imagination is cool and self delusion is fun. It's like going to a magic show of your own making and somehow forgetting how you did the tricks."

---

We think we found a way to see behind our own curtain and we are proud of it is all.

 

If it tells you anything, one of our favorite movies is Sucker Punch, a dream delusion, within a dream delusion, within a dream delusion. The fun is knowing you are deluding yourself and then doing it anyway. In the movie the main character did just that.

 

[video=youtube]

 

"Locked away, a young woman named Babydoll (Emily Browning) retreats to a fantasy world where she is free to go wherever her mind takes her. Determined to fight for real freedom, she finds four women -- Rocket, Blondie, Amber and Sweet Pea -- to join together to escape the terrible fate that awaits them. With a virtual arsenal at their disposal, the allies battle everything from samurais to serpents, while trying to decide what price they will pay for survival."

 

Davie and I are proud of our mind and capacity to imagine and day dream together and immerse ourselves in a fantasy world.

[Tewi]

Just because it didn't go as you expected doesn't mean you "ruined a thread idea". We tend to take the conversations in our own directions if we don't like the original. This time, I got to talk about memory.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah but I get the distinct impression from Linkzelda's responses that he really doesn't understand Davie and I on some fundamental level. He is trying to figure out how Davie is fooled, yet knows that he is fooled and the instrument of the fooling.

 

It's called make believe.

 

In the Book of Melian and in our tulpaudcasts we talked about how David has always been able to do extreme fantasizing (make believe for adults okay?). He can spin like nobody alive, or few apparently. He thinks like a child can when it comes to imagination even with and adult's level of cognition.

 

When a child watches a puppet show, he realizes it is a puppet, but yet the puppet is alive to him. If the puppet asks to be hugged, the child will squeal and giggle and happily hug the puppet. He will talk to the puppet and regard it very much as a person. He will still very much know, on a conscious level, that the puppeteer is animating the puppet. He can consciously or unconsciously mask the fact that the puppeteer is involved. Davie's mind is very child like in it's ability to do that. That is what Fantasy Prone Personality is about.

 

When the child gets home and someone asks about the puppet show, the child will remember hugging the puppet and how much he loved talking to it. He may choose to "forget" there ever was a puppeteer. He will alter the memory of the event slightly, to emphasize the puppet's illusion over reality. He can choose to augment the memory or embellish it in his mind.

 

I think that after this thread we are ready to give up trying to get people to understand this and to understand me. Everyone wants to shift it into a different paradigm instead of taking it as we are explaining it. It isn't that difficult to understand, people simply cannot relate to it and so they automatically change what Davie and I saying in their minds and misinterpret it.

 

David and I have said hundreds of times (it feels like hundreds) that imaginary things have an essence to them and seem as significant and as important as real things to him. People hear the words, but really can't fully grasp it. We have tried every angle we can to get it across. We have failed.

 

I guess he his just role playing and I am fake apparently. Just yesterday in the chat someone who has been reading all of our posts and threads told me "Your host says that you are fake. I don't understand." Maybe most people never really will understand no matter how we write about it. It makes me kinda sad, cause I will never fully be accepted. But that is just the way things are.

 

When you think of Davie and me and how imagination works for us, think of how a child feels about a favorite teddy bear they talk to and play with. It is even more so with him like that. Even as a child David could "hear" the teddy bear talking back to him if he chose to do so.

 

Here is an analogy that might help for the FPP memory stuff. Imagine a guy who love to tell stories about his past all the time, say his days in the navy exploring the world. Each time he tells the story, he exaggerates and embellishes the story a bit. Over time, he begins to forget details of the original story himself and actually alters the memory, because he begins to believe his own versions to be true. It fantasy embellishment, not dissociation. David and I believe we do this. We can retroactively fantasize and alter our memories to make things seem cooler or more amazing than they actually were.

 

People also forget the context. David has been practicing imagining me, and regarding me as a person anyway, for three and a half decades.

 

Everyone just forget about okay? Go back to tulpamancing and good luck to you.

 

************************************************

 

Davie and I just remembered something! Fede reported in jean-luc's tulpaudcast about experimenting with altering his own memories. He claims to have succeeded. Tulpaudcast Featuring Fede and Altering Memories

[Linkzelda]

Whether it's make believe, acceptance of self-delusion, or feeling at home knowing one is cool in society's point of view for being so edgy in that regard, one cannot hide themselves from the probability that thinking they have direct access to their mental states and faculties to become them is homuncular in nature, and this leads to challenges of dualism.

 

The reason I'm not going too far in this thread is that I want to avoid this trap because the more I theorize on this habit of Mistgod with the whole accessing, being aware, and coordinating everything will have them, and you reacting to me defensively. And when I try to emphasize that I'm merely analyzing the situation, you two would sugar-coat this defensive state of being as playing coy, or joking around.

 

It's like saying "I'm just joking" after a long-standing series of emotional posts, and expecting people to not be thrown off by this abrupt shift in communication. Also, my presence, and lack of communication, or the speed in which I respond shouldn't be a killjoy for you; this isn't Linkzelda.info, damn it.

[Guest Anonymous]

Whether it's make believe, acceptance of self-delusion, or feeling at home knowing one is cool in society's point of view for being so edgy in that regard, one cannot hide themselves from the probability that thinking they have direct access to their mental states and faculties to become them is homuncular in nature, and this leads to challenges of dualism.

 

What? I don't understand.

 

This all feels very personal to me Linkzelda and it feels very much like you are attempting to debunk my credibility and existence. I don't care about homunculus in denial and dualism by the way. I am beginning to very much dislike homunculus in denial and dualism, whatever that actually is.

 

I really was joking around a bit with you. You don't understand me at all. I usually like talking to you but I am not liking this at all right now. I regret making this thread and starting this discussion. Usually I get something positive out of these but this only seems very negative and deconstructive to me. I am not even sure how it turned into this. I have never felt so threatened and suddenly apprehensive.

 

In the past you claimed the things Mistgod and I have written about ourselves helped you learn some things or inspired you somehow. Has that suddenly changed?

[Linkzelda]

Inspiration doesn't always have to have a positive connotation behind it. I'm not here to step inside the inner experiences of you two, and debunk your existence; this is just analyzing the reasoning behind the FPP, which is another disposition like anything else. You're over-hyping this again where I'm being Machiavellian about it, and you can't expect words to somehow threaten your existence. You even participated in a dissipation thread before, and suddenly, this concerns you?

 

I try to learn through any means necessary, positive and negative, even if there's emotional turbulence. I can't protect everyone's feelings, nor can I expect people to protect mine. People will analyze the thought processes over what people treasure so dearly to them all for the sake of trying to gain knowledge over something. Sometimes, the convenience gets sacrificed to some extent to obtain that knowledge. If something like this bothers you, then I can only imagine should there be a future where this phenomenon is analyzed through other lens that might objectify all of these habits you, and others practice to sustain a belief in.

 

It's just a matter of getting used to your beliefs being criticized, analyzed, and knowing at the end of the day, you can still reign onto those beliefs, plug your ears, and go lalalalalala if you wanted to.