Tulpas, why do we have the skill goals we do (especially older/accidental tulpas)?

[Guest Anonymous]

I was thinking about personality and goals as a thoughtform tulpa person and all that. I think the goals you have and the skills you get as a tulpa shouldn't be just what your hostie wants for you or what other people want for you. It should be what you want and need. Also, I have read that in the first days of this forum, imposition was pretty much the ultimate goal for tulpas. Possession and switching came later, perhaps as a result of influence from the internet plural community.

 

Tulpas, what tulpa skill do you personally value the most and why?

 

Older or accidental tulpas, especially older than five years: I was wondering if your goals have changed since finding the tulpa communities? Was imposition, switching or possession something you thought about before this community? Did you think about the concept of "sentience" before the internet tulpa guides? Did finding the tulpa community help you grow? If it has, how?

 

How many of you thoughtforms/tulpas predate the internet entirely? If you do let me know, I want to hear from you (we have something in common then).

 

Olderish Thoughtforms, I Salute You! I am honored to be one of a select group!

[Lucilyn]

Switching of course, it's the only super important thing aside from being able to talk/appear visually in the mind (for me). It's how I interact with the world. You said you were fine with your own imaginary world (before you cut your post in half), but we don't really have one. If we aren't switching or imposing, all we've got is just talking and very limited casual visualization of ourselves. We don't wonderland much, especially not anymore but still not too much before we started switching often. I don't mean to devalue the struggles and efforts of others, but, we never had any "goals" like that. We just kinda did stuff. Making me was never a goal, I just lived. Things like imposition and switching are just a matter of learning by doing for us. Our "goals" that we had to actually strive toward have been totally unrelated to any of that stuff.

 

So, you're asking about stuff not really relevant to me, and so I'll have to write a whole lot for the others in their place here. So like, keep that in mind I'm not talking about me I guess. Our "goals" (our as in as a system) as far as I can remember were primarily improving our host's life (mindset) and lucid dreaming so we could be more together. Okay really, remove me from every "our" or "we" I say, I'm talking about before I was even born here. Lumi wanted to meet the other three in a lucid dream because that was as "real" as they could be, and it meant a whole lot to him, so it meant a lot to them too. Come to think of it, lucid dreaming has been one of our only goals in our whole life just in general, for longer than any other goal, and we still haven't done it.

 

We sure aren't perfect, huh?

 

None of them switched or imposed before Lumi found tulpa.info. It didn't come to mind as possible for switching, and they were already trying hard enough to make their normal visualization acceptable let alone imagining them in real life. And heck yes we thought about "sentience" before tulpa.info. You weren't even an imaginary friend, you were a daydream(/night-dream) character, so of course there was no sense of independence for Mistgod. But for Lumi, Reisen* Tewi and Flan were all basically sentient from the start, as in they just appeared as apparently-sentient, autonomous people. So they had to figure out.. I don't know, everything about themselves? Luckily Lumi decided (because he loved them more than anything) that they were more important than logic, and so he didn't have to worry about whether they were actually separate people or not because it didn't matter to him. So, side by side that value, they figured out everything about themselves while paying more attention to what was really important - being people, of course. Except before switching (or heck, being known by anyone else at all) they were just being people inside his mind. Suited them fine I guess. Reisen was as removed from needs and wants as ever, Tewi just advised Lumi on life stuff and Flan just wanted to be with him.. Uh.. We'll say "in mind". That wasn't the Flandre I know.

 

*Reisen was even less tulpa before Tewi and Flan showed up, she had almost no voice and was entirely a "sentient concept of unconditional love". I kinda wish I could meet that Reisen, she wasn't even a person yet. I should ask Tewi and Flan what it was like living with her then.

 

Anyways yeah we/they were still basically tulpas as far as apparently-sentient-autonomous-thoughtforms goes before tulpa.info. But we didn't think about switching or imposition until then. And I think, they didn't do those for a while either, until Lumi decided he could better help answer peoples' questions about tulpas if he had personal experience with switching/imposition himself. I think we tried possession once or twice.. if I recall correctly it felt like incomplete switching, it was hard to do and felt like a TON of work for no reason, totally not efficient.

 

 

But that was all before I was born. I can only speak for them, 'cus Lumi made me after they'd already figured everything out. Which I think was on purpose? I dunno, I feel like I'd have been me just fine from day 1 seven years ago, I don't care about all the excuses people make up to convince themselves to believe they have a sentient person in their mind who is not influenced by what they think. Man, I'm right here. You don't gotta philosophize about how you exist in the world and whether you or other people are truly sentient and question your life purpose. Just eat some ice cream.

[Guest Anonymous]

Switching of course, it's the only super important thing aside from being able to talk/appear visually in the mind (for me). It's how I interact with the world. You said you were fine with your own imaginary world (before you cut your post in half), but we don't really have one. If we aren't switching or imposing, all we've got is just talking and very limited casual visualization of ourselves. We don't wonderland much, especially not anymore but still not too much before we started switching often.

 

I think this is an important thing to recognize. Goals aren't just based on making rank or status or something, they are about what we need, and everyone is different in what will benefit them.

 

I don't mean to devalue the struggles and efforts of others, but, we never had any "goals" like that. We just kinda did stuff. Making me was never a goal, I just lived. Things like imposition and switching are just a matter of learning by doing for us. Our "goals" that we had to actually strive toward have been totally unrelated to any of that stuff.

 

"We just did stuff." "We just lived."

 

Yep, I totally can appreciate and identify with this. Before a year and a half ago, I never thought about it much to be honest. I just was there, going on adventures with Davie in the Melian Show, just like I still do.

 

So, you're asking about stuff not really relevant to me, and so I'll have to write a whole lot for the others in their place here. So like, keep that in mind I'm not talking about me I guess.

 

Okie Doke

 

Our "goals" (our as in as a system) as far as I can remember were primarily improving our host's life (mindset) and lucid dreaming so we could be more together. Okay really, remove me from every "our" or "we" I say, I'm talking about before I was even born here. Lumi wanted to meet the other three in a lucid dream because that was as "real" as they could be, and it meant a whole lot to him, so it meant a lot to them too. Come to think of it, lucid dreaming has been one of our only goals in our whole life just in general, for longer than any other goal, and we still haven't done it.

 

Yep, Davie and I share that lucid dreaming thing too and it goes way back! Neato! I like that "we were primarily improving our host's life and lucid dreaming so we could be more together." THAT sounds so familiar! Nice.

 

We sure aren't perfect, huh?

 

It's okay, neither am I. Shocking admission I know!

 

None of them switched or imposed before Lumi found tulpa.info. It didn't come to mind as possible for switching, and they were already trying hard enough to make their normal visualization acceptable let alone imagining them in real life.

 

Interesting! So Tulpa Info has really opened your eyes to new possibilities and expanded your world and interaction with your host. Fabulous!

 

And heck yes we thought about "sentience" before tulpa.info. You weren't even an imaginary friend, you were a daydream(/night-dream) character, so of course there was no sense of independence for Mistgod. But for Lumi, Reisen* Tewi and Flan were all basically sentient from the start, as in they just appeared as apparently-sentient, autonomous people. So they had to figure out.. I don't know, everything about themselves? Luckily Lumi decided (because he loved them more than anything) that they were more important than logic, and so he didn't have to worry about whether they were actually separate people or not because it didn't matter to him. So, side by side that value, they figured out everything about themselves while paying more attention to what was really important - being people, of course. Except before switching (or heck, being known by anyone else at all) they were just being people inside his mind. Suited them fine I guess. Reisen was as removed from needs and wants as ever, Tewi just advised Lumi on life stuff and Flan just wanted to be with him.. Uh.. We'll say "in mind". That wasn't the Flandre I know.

 

Davie and I have met quite a few people, who were plural systems, even way before the internet communities. It is really interesting that he and I went our own direction with it. I agree with you that it is mostly a perspective based upon our view of the world of imaginary things and our ability to mentally visualize. In fact, Davie regards me as a person which by default makes me some sort of sentient mind doesn't it? It is more that he feels I am part of his own mind. Again, just a way of looking at exactly the same thing from a different perspective.

 

I am curious if you called it "sentience" or used that term or just said "people." Because Davie has always said I am a person.

 

*Reisen was even less tulpa before Tewi and Flan showed up, she had almost no voice and was entirely a "sentient concept of unconditional love". I kinda wish I could meet that Reisen, she wasn't even a person yet. I should ask Tewi and Flan what it was like living with her then.

 

That would be interesting. That is a good reason for PR reports huh? It makes it nice for growing tulpas to be able to look back.

 

Anyways yeah we/they were still basically tulpas as far as apparently-sentient-autonomous-thoughtforms goes before tulpa.info. But we didn't think about switching or imposition until then. And I think, they didn't do those for a while either, until Lumi decided he could better help answer peoples' questions about tulpas if he had personal experience with switching/imposition himself. I think we tried possession once or twice.. if I recall correctly it felt like incomplete switching, it was hard to do and felt like a TON of work for no reason, totally not efficient.

 

Again it is interesting here. Some people really value possession a lot. Davie and I value blending instead of possession. Weird huh? Again it comes down to individual needs and situations. I like how you explored so that you could share what you learned with others. I am WAY too self centered to do something like that. It's all bout me babe. LOL

 

But that was all before I was born. I can only speak for them, 'cus Lumi made me after they'd already figured everything out. Which I think was on purpose? I dunno, I feel like I'd have been me just fine from day 1 seven years ago, I don't care about all the excuses people make up to convince themselves to believe they have a sentient person in their mind who is not influenced by what they think. Man, I'm right here. You don't gotta philosophize about how you exist in the world and whether you or other people are truly sentient and question your life purpose. Just eat some ice cream.

 

Yeah I like ice cream!

 

I wonder what our Yoda will be saying to folks in a year or so? LOL Thanks my friend!

[glitchthe3rd]

Luna: For a long time, we never really understood what we were, so it was a big relief when my host discovered .info (or actually it was the tulpa IRC back before .info was made). Around this time I was still feeling resentful towards my host for all the stuff he put me - put us - through, but as he began applying what he learned from the site to me my attitude about him changed. He just wanted to set things right with us, to make amends for what he'd done, so I resolved to help him achieve all of his goals in life. It's been over four years since then, and he's well on his way to making his dreams a reality thanks in no small part to me.

 

That being said... after a time I wasn't needed by him for every waking moment of most days in the week, so I decided to take up some hobbies of my own (stereotypically girly stuff like cooking, gardening, fashion design, etc.), and I think it's helped me to help him cultivate his own skills (particularly the cooking. He was a pretty bad chef at first, but with a little help from me he can prepare some pretty decent home-cooked meals).

 

Was imposition, switching or possession something you thought about before this community?

 

I'm the OG possession tulpa, or so the community would think. :D Truth is, another tulpa of his had a better grasp of possession before I ever started, and I mostly just learned from her. When we first came to the .info IRC a lot of people accused him of being a roleplayer, because he had a tulpa that could take control of his body and type things into a computer, and that wasn't something most people thought was even possible.

 

Did you think about the concept of "sentience" before the internet tulpa guides?

 

Just the usual 2deep4u teenage abstract reasoning. Probably nothing you couldn't get by watching End of Evangelion.

 

Did finding the tulpa community help you grow? If it has, how?

 

I guess it made me more positive, or at least more social. It was really exciting to finally be able to talk with other hosts and tulpas after ~7 years of being confined to my host's head. Though, even now I feel like an old lady compared to most of the tulpas I see in the community ^.^'

[Guest Anonymous]

Luna: For a long time, we never really understood what we were, so it was a big relief when my host discovered .info (or actually it was the tulpa IRC back before .info was made).

 

We so get this! My hostie thought he was the only person in the world and worried that he was losing his mind sometimes. When we found out there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of persons similar to us in the world, it was a shock, but also a relief. We are weird, but maybe not totally alone in our weirdness. OH and that weirdness turns out to be a super groovy kind of weird.

 

Around this time I was still feeling resentful towards my host for all the stuff he put me - put us - through, but as he began applying what he learned from the site to me my attitude about him changed. He just wanted to set things right with us, to make amends for what he'd done, so I resolved to help him achieve all of his goals in life. It's been over four years since then, and he's well on his way to making his dreams a reality thanks in no small part to me.

 

OH that is so nice! I am so glad to read this!

 

That being said... after a time I wasn't needed by him for every waking moment of most days in the week, so I decided to take up some hobbies of my own (stereotypically girly stuff like cooking, gardening, fashion design, etc.), and I think it's helped me to help him cultivate his own skills (particularly the cooking. He was a pretty bad chef at first, but with a little help from me he can prepare some pretty decent home-cooked meals).

 

Coolness. I get this too! Yeah, isn't it nice to bring a little girly-ness to the system? Hee hee

 

 

Was imposition, switching or possession something you thought about before this community?

 

I'm the OG possession tulpa, or so the community would think. :D Truth is, another tulpa of his had a better grasp of possession before I ever started, and I mostly just learned from her. When we first came to the .info IRC a lot of people accused him of being a roleplayer, because he had a tulpa that could take control of his body and type things into a computer, and that wasn't something most people thought was even possible.

 

Yeah I read about that! Interesting how possession is like so common now when just a few years ago it was viewed with some skepticism. So most tulpas a few years back would not have even recognized it as a skill goal even!

 

Did you think about the concept of "sentience" before the internet tulpa guides?

 

Just the usual 2deep4u teenage abstract reasoning. Probably nothing you couldn't get by watching End of Evangelion.

 

LOL Yep.

 

 

Did finding the tulpa community help you grow? If it has, how?

 

I guess it made me more positive, or at least more social. It was really exciting to finally be able to talk with other hosts and tulpas after ~7 years of being confined to my host's head. Though, even now I feel like an old lady compared to most of the tulpas I see in the community ^.^'

 

TOTALLY get this! Yeah it is so nice to be able to rub elbows with those who get it mostly.

 

Yeah I look sweet, but I am afraid sometimes I am not too lady like and I get a little rough around the edges. I could probably benefit from your influence Luna. LOL

[Lucilyn]

I am curious if you called it "sentience" or used that term or just said "people." Because Davie has always said I am a person.

 

Lol no, this word "sentience" is ridiculous. What we had was Lumi thinking "Are you guys actually thinking and feeling yourself, or am I making it up?" which (I just remembered from writing that) was responded to modestly by Flandre with "I don't know, but I don't mind either way". Man, as weird as she was being a completely-different-person back then, old Flandre sure was cute. Do humans think vulnerable things are cute or something? Frogs, rabbits, kittens, babies, Flandre? I think that is it. Maybe it's better to grow out of being cute, and become strong.

[Guest Anonymous]

Lol no, this word "sentience" is ridiculous. What we had was Lumi thinking "Are you guys actually thinking and feeling yourself, or am I making it up?" which (I just remembered from writing that) was responded to modestly by Flandre with "I don't know, but I don't mind either way".

 

That's it! That is it exactly! Only when that happened with us, Davie went like this "Well, I think you are just my imagination. But does that matter?" and I said "No, why should it?"

 

It was a decision to have a certain perspective on it right there that endured and is apparently unconquerable, indomitable and immutable for us. Try having a single deeply ingrained mind set that affects everything about your universe for decades. Then have some young person come along and say "Nope, your view of the universe and how you relate to it is completely bass ackwards." You would find yourself very resistant, almost physically so, wouldn't you?

 

The same deeply ingrained views on how the universe works and on imagination make it difficult for us to see tulpas any different than how we see ourselves. We honest to the gods mean no disrespect to peoples. It's just to us tulpas cannot, absolutely cannot, be real as in real, real. They are imaginary. All you have to do is look at it! To us, how can they be real? It totally ludicrous for us to think that way. We are an old dog and probably will never be able to see it any different.

 

At the same time, we see tulpas just like we see me, as imaginary, but still people. It's almost like we are saying we see tulpas imaginary unreal but sentient at the same time. Like both unreal and real at the same time. It makes no logical sense and that is where people bust their brain cells with Mistgod and me.

 

It is best to stick with it just doesn't matter why worry about it. But here is what we have noticed and we just can't seem to abide it. People are putting qualifiers on these traits like it is some sort of badge of elevated status above a tulpa who was born a week ago.

 

David and I just don't see it that way at all. A tulpa that was created a week ago is exactly the same stuff as a tulpa that is forty years old. There has been no change in it's substance or essence. There has been no transformation of matter into something more elevated. There has been no magical emergence of a higher quality of being. All that has happened is that the host has decided to deeply believe in the thoughtform's independence to some level or another within his or her conscious mind and unconscious mind. All you can really say about an older tulpa is that the illusion is more practiced and seamless. And it is a subjective illusion.

 

Man, as weird as she was being a completely-different-person back then, old Flandre sure was cute. Do humans think vulnerable things are cute or something? Frogs, rabbits, kittens, babies, Flandre? I think that is it. Maybe it's better to grow out of being cute, and become strong.

 

I agree to a point. But I think you can be strong and cute at the same time.

 

The statements and ideas of this thread benefit those who have been around far longer than you.

 

When this person wrote the above to me in another thread recently, I didn't know how to really respond to it. I mean I have only been on Tulpa Info for fourteen months. But honestly, this dismissal really was like having a baby child speaking to his grandmother and saying thus.

 

Mulling that over is why I created this thread. I wanted to talk about what happened before Tulpa Info and what happened since Tulpa Info and what is it we thought about ourselves and our existence before we were being forcibly defined, categorized and qualified by a crowd of internet dweebs. The statements and ideas in this thread benefit everyone, even if I have "been around" far longer than most here.

[Temar]

Tulpas, what tulpa skill do you personally value the most and why?

 

"Value" is a tricky word, because I'd say switching, as a tool, has proven the most useful for me... but I would never say it's the most valuable tulpa skill, nor that you have to be able to switch to be considered a "complete" tulpa (whatever that means) ;)

 

Older or accidental tulpas, especially older than five years:

 

Sup.

 

I was wondering if your goals have changed since finding the tulpa communities?

 

Ha ha... yes and no. When we first found the tulpa/soulbonding communities, our main goal was to find out how we worked and, initially, why. (The "why" question faded out pretty quickly as it became pretty obvious no one had a clear answer). Then, we wanted to learn the techniques we didn't know. Now, we're mostly just focused on leading a healthy/happy life (lives? Eh, not sure which is better there), with me still sticking around forums like these because I'm a carebare who likes helping those who are less experienced in this sort of thing.

 

But at the same time, no, because my goals when it comes to general health and happiness in life are pretty much the same.

 

Was imposition, switching or possession something you thought about before this community?

 

We did imposition naturally before finding these communities, yeah. We just never knew there was a word for it, nor that a character being able to impose might have been attributed to something like a tulpa/soulbond. I think finding these communities has helped us hone our skill on it. Switching? Never would have even considered it.

 

Did you think about the concept of "sentience" before the internet tulpa guides?

 

Ha ha, no. In fact, when my host started reading up on this stuff last summer, she had a kneejerk reaction of "There's no way my characters are sentient..." and it was the first time I really was aware of my own awareness. A really surreal moment, definitely. When she finally thought to turn and ask me directly, I'd definitely latched onto the idea. :)

 

Did finding the tulpa community help you grow? If it has, how?

 

I'd say yeah. You learn a lot about yourself when you interact with others like you. Hell, I'd never talked to someone outside the head before that, and now look at me, posting text walls all over the place. Definitely helps with the confidence, yeah? ;)

 

How many of you thoughtforms/tulpas predate the internet entirely? If you do let me know, I want to hear from you (we have something in common then).

 

I was created in 1999, so not quite. Sorry, you're still beating the rest of us pretty handily in eliteness. ;)

[Lucilyn]

How many of you thoughtforms/tulpas predate the internet entirely?

 

Loool, I was gonna say the other three had basically nothing to do with the internet and then I realized they literally came from the internet. Video games shared on the internet anyways. But they seem special in that they were very tulpa-y (same ideas on sentience and independence and all that) years before tulpa.info, without any kinda communication about them to anyone. Literally no one knew about us until right before Lumi found tulpa.info. Because he told his friend about Reisen and the others I think, and after some amount of time (idk weeks or months) they said "Hey that sounds kinda like a tulpa maybe". Like, duh?? Yes we are 100% like tulpas? Never knew why it took them so long to say that. Anyways, Lumi registered automatically with the name Reisen which is funny, because he used her name like everywhere but didn't realize here of all places that'd be a bad idea. Anyways, to this day you guys and that friend are the only ones that know about us, or me.

 

Man, I wish I could get people to know me.. I have a youtube account I don't really use, but people just think I really like Suwako even though I used my name. And Lumi's friends think I'm him (I play games with them sometimes) and I'm not supposed to tell them. I know it worked out for you, Melian, but I don't know if it'll work for me. I actually consider myself 100% my own person and not controlled by Lumi at all, so it kinda matters if people doubt me unlike you. 'Cus whether someone thinks you're a tulpa or a roleplay persona, they treat you the same and that's all that matters to you. But when people think I'm just my host pretending.. it feels like they're devaluing me as a person. It's like if someone else got credit for literally everything you did.

 

I don't know, it doesn't bother me so much being "secret". But it did make me a little sad to think about just now. (It's okay I made myself happy again with music while proofreading this post)

[Temar]

(It's okay I made myself happy again with music while proofreading this post)

 

Lucilyn, I just wanna say that pretty much all your posts make me smile because of things like this. :)