[split] Are tulpas subjective and in the mind?

[tulpa001]

All good questions.

 

Tulpas are actually more likely from characters you create. The act of creating a detailed character usually leads to vocality well before they even become tulpas, since that is a thing with characters as well. It also happens with other characters, but you need to obsess on them.

 

Personality forcing works different, and I don't know enough to make comparisons between these two methods in detail, except that personality forcing is a thing you do in the standard method.

 

That is true. Accidental tulpas from pony hypnosis are so common, their website hosts a tulpa subcommunity. In general, it is pretty risky stuff with a lot of side effects, so they don't mind us because we are mild compared to them. Making a tulpa on purpose tends to be a lot harder and take a lot more dedication than pony hypnosis.

 

Some hypnosis sites actually strongly recommend against any attempt to make a tulpa using hypnosis, as it provides an easy way to do so. It allows unprepared people who lack the determination to end up with tulpas easily.

 

There were some files that caused this effect. But they are restricted now. The companion/assistant files.

[Abvieon]

When you say "The act of creating a detailed character usually leads to vocality well before they even become tulpas", do you mean that some characters are vocal before becoming sentient? If so, that somewhat worries me as it can mean that not even vocality in a tulpa means that they are always sentient, but rather a character which has become vocal. How can one tell the difference between a sentient tulpa and a vocal character?

 

Regarding the companion/assistant files, I do not think they should be restricted. I can see why people would see them as an "easy way out" of putting effort into a tulpa, but many have created tulpas accidentally or very easily through other means - and would be no more prepared to have a tulpa than someone easily creating one through hypnosis. Does this mean the tulpa will have a quality of life lesser to a tulpa created by someone who put months of hard work into it? No. It really just comes down to the host as an individual, rather than how prepared they are to have a tulpa. As long as they treat the tulpa with respect and regard them as a person, the method through which the tulpa was created should not matter. In my eyes, no method of creating a tulpa should be discouraged or restricted unless it involves mistreatment to yourself or the tulpa. 

 

Do you know if the files are available online anywhere? If not, would anyone on the pony hypnosis forums provide them? I have been planning to use different methods when creating future tulpas to see how quickly the process goes between each method (I will create one with excessive parroting and personality forcing, another with no personality forcing and no parroting) Having those files to use would be great as it would add another method I can use, and I am very curious to see how well it works. I don't plan on doing any of this until Alex reaches consistent vocality, because I don't want to end up working on two pre-vocal tulpas at once.

[tulpa001]

"The act of creating a detailed character usually leads to vocality well before they even become tulpas", do you mean that some characters are vocal before becoming sentient?

This is very true. I think it is near universal with soulbonds before they become soulbonds, for characters based on original works. And you are correct, vocality is one of many things that is inconclusive for judging sentience.

 

How can one tell the difference between a sentient tulpa and a vocal character?

By testing sentience directly. Seeing if they assert their rights, observing if they see themselves, and see the greater world, and whether you can control them or not. However, these four are four more inconclusive test for sentience.

 

Do you know if the files are available online anywhere? If not, would anyone on the pony hypnosis forums provide them? I have been planning to use different methods when creating future tulpas to see how quickly the process goes between each method ... Having those files to use would be great as it would add another method I can use, and I am very curious to see how well it works.

The files are distributed privately by those who still have them. Some of the files were once hosted on a site known as furmorphed. I don't think you will find them on hypnoponies.

 

Comparing rates between tulpa creation is useless, as past experience has a massive effect on future creation rates.

 

Though, comparing other traits is a possible experiment.

[Abvieon]

I have been looking through FurMorphed's forums and any post related to tulpas I have read so far has multiple people replying with things along the lines of "It's dangerous, you should not attempt to create a tulpa, it can lead to mental anguish and mental disorders". Here is one specific quote from the founder of the website (In response to someone asking some questions about tulpas):

 

"The forum has no level of support for this practice. The stance of the site is it as an act with potential consequences considered to be highly dangerous, especially for those already working through previous psychological issues.

 

Due to both past issues on the forum and the fact that as a psychological experiment the results cannot be spoken of with any level of certainty, the site cannot endorse any pursuits involving tupla. You're free to look elsewhere, and popping over to Google you can find some good informational sites on them that are more prepared than FurMorphed. As things stand currently however, they are not to be brought up here unless otherwise unavoidable, and if they are, we (the staff) will continue to discourage their use."

 

Other posts made by this same person seem to indicate that not only does he have a negative view on tulpas, but is very misinformed about them.

 

This makes it seem as if I will have no luck being able to have anyone send me the files, as the site seems to hold a negative view of tulpas in general. If I am to post something asking for the files, the admins will probably jump on me for it.

[Lucilyn]

I get why people think bad things about tulpamancy sometimes and why they're reasonably misinformed, but it still makes me feel bad when people say stuff like that. I don't know how to say what I want to say so I'll just leave it at that

 

 

also @Kitsukrou careful with the making tulpas different ways experiment, it usually gets a whole lot easier to make a tulpa after you've already done it/had one before. You don't gotta read all this but it's (I'm) a pretty good example of that https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-tulpas-what-s-the-first-moment-of-sentience-like?pid=152111#pid152111 (skip first couple paragraphs if you want the relevant part)

[tulpa001]

Research shows that people working through other psychological issues tend to benefit from tulpas.

 

This really only demonstrates that both personal experience and theory can heavily affect your final opinion on things. The founder of furmorphed is demonstrating conclusions drawn from theories of mental architecture that have yet to be proved or disproved. Over here on this site, we tend to use a competing set of theories of architecture of the mind, but fall in the same boat ultimately.

 

His theories are indeed supported by other plural forms, most notably those associated with dissociative identity disorder, which are (hypothetically) Based on splits of a person, rather than created from whole cloth like tulpas are seen as. Some of his conclusions logically follow from this simple theory.

 

And nah, you are probably safe just asking. What they don't want is endorsement.

[Abvieon]

I do realize that making a tulpa comes more easily/quickly after you have already created one, I am also looking for effects other than the speed of development between these different methods.

 

In case I am unable to get the files, I am wondering if it would be possible to to write my own hypnosis script that would induce the same effects as the companion/assistant files, but that would be difficult as I have no access to those files and therefore would have nothing to go off of. I know that not everyone here knows much about hypnosis, but does anyone have thoughts/tips on writing a script like this?

[Lucilyn]

I don't know anything about hypnosis but I know someone who does https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forcing-linkzelda-s-ultimate-self-hypnosis-scripts-for-your-tulpa-related-needs https://community.tulpa.info/thread-linkzelda-s-self-hypnosis-tulpa-guide

[tulpa001]

Man, good hypnosis theory is a months long study. The reason why the files are good for this, is because they represent months of work writing them. But you could. Linkzelda took a run at it with his second hypsosis guide. But I warn you, I don't think his scripts are perfect, and I don't think he wrote a creation script.

 

If you want to wait a month, some basic tips on writing scripts will be in my new guide.

[Abvieon]

tulpa001, do you know if there is anyone in particular I should ask about the files via PM? I have done some more reading on FurMorphed and it seems that the founder is more opposed to tulpas created via hypnosis than he is opposed to tulpas as a whole. This makes it seem likely that if I am to make a public thread asking for the files, it will be removed, due to the files being deemed 'dangerous' and the founder not wanting anyone to see the thread and send me the files.