summoning stuff

[solarchariot]

I am looking for a conversation as opposed to absolute answers, as I know this is speculative. I have been reading websites, and some books on magic, specifically tuning into 'summoning' stuff. There are a broad range of stuff one can make or summon, like egregores, nymps, succubus, demons, entities... what have you. Having successfully created a tulpa, I can't help but think these are all the same thing. Maybe they're real and spooky to those people who 'summon' them, but since no one else sees them, we can reduce them to simple hallucinated thought forms, psychologically created by a host.

 

Maybe magic is just a fancy way of saying or participating in psychological activity, which isn't to say it doesn't have a profound affect on the lives of the practitioners, because their mental worlds are real places. Our paradigms are real things, with objective measures on our lives, but not objectively measurable from culture to culture, or time to time... which means, what... We live in a shared tulpa?

[KarlYoshimura]

If it is a conversation you desire, I will try my best to provide something for you.

 

I like how you detail some of your observations, as there are some clearly resonant concepts of both eastern and western divisions of mysticism that may be relevant to what you ask about.

 

One aspect of tulpas I am sure to repeat often is their humble origins in the monastic orders and varieties of magicians from Tibet. To my best recollection, tulpas were initially treated as tools or kinds of teachers, immaterial assistants who allowed their creators to comprehend mysteries like the seemingly illusory characteristics of physical reality. These kinds of principles mostly stemmed from the Buddhist traditions aboriginal of Tibet in centuries past, giving their associated followers a kind of spiritual acuity to better probe the various inconsistencies not only inherent in nature but also the subjective comprehension thereof.

 

As for the western derivatives of the occult, we should keep in mind that what others refer to as magick is little more than attempting to transpose if not enforce one's own will upon the universe by ritualistically applying generous reserves of sacred power. Does this sound familiar to you at all? Mustering what you feel is appropriate and genuinely purposeful in a certain way, taught to you by a kind of guide or what speaks to you in a very significant manner. When described like this it does almost sound like participating in some great interdependent psychological makeup pattern or going through the rudimentary steps of inviting somebody else into our personal existence.

 

My opinion is that we do not live in a shared tulpa but as hosts we are physically layered equivalents of tulpas within the paracosm of something far greater and ubiquitous. I can't help but think of the old riddle "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, shall the sound of its fall be heard?" because even if there is nobody about to hear the felled tree, this intrinsically sapient omnipresence is present to sense most nearly everything in its mental world (not unlike a host mind observing and simultaneously maintaining a fluorishing wonderland while going about their daily lives).

[solarchariot]

Thank you, KarlYoshimura. I am happy you shared your thoughts.

 

Yeah, I see the difference in the Western approach being more control oriented, as opposed to the Eastern, which seems much more experiential.

 

So, I am going to run with your idea here, adding some assumptions to mess with it, because in a way, I kind of think we said the same thing. Paracosm, ultimate host. We as physical beings believe we are physical, but we are tulpas in the Host. Same above, same below. We are hosted, and we host tulpas, some deliberate, some not. Being an American, or any other national identity, is ascribing to an ideal entity, but it is not in truth an absolute identity, but a fiction we have agreed to in order to regulate commerce, which in itself is also a fiction. (Does it have a real affects. Yeah. I have been places where I have been treated very nicely just because I am american. I have also been places where I was afraid for my life because I am american. (I can eat civilized enough that I might pass for French until I speak, then the game is up. Which sucks, cause I really love the French.) The culture tulpa is something we co-created, we pick up the torch handed us, and we are modifying it even now as we deviate through life, and we will hand our version to someone else, but essentially it is a consensual thing. (Even in fighting against it, you are consequentially and consensualy agreeing that it is a thing that has to be countered. (All resistance reinforces thing?)) So, our culture is a tulpa. Some people are so nationalized that if they traveled to a foreign county and they find divergence, they might say, 'what's wrong with these people? We do it like this...' They are responding to the script of their parent tulpa. People who are more flexible are able to communicate or navigate or adapt to other tulpa....??

 

doesn't that seem like the same thing, being in a tulpa, the equivalent of tulpas within a paracosm? If a tulpa never left a wonderland, would they know they were a though form? Can we prove we don't live in hologram/matrix?

 

I am not sure one is supposed to unpack the koan about the tree. Like the sound of one hand clapping. I read someone, recently, western physics person, breaking it down as the tree only makes a sound when someone is there to observe it. Person went further, if no one is there to see it fall, it doesn't fall. They went further. there is no tree without an observer. I think Einstein protested this saying, "I believe the moon is still there even if I am not looking at it." I suspect they were grappling with the same koan. That guy unpacked it further by saying, if you go to a forest and you see the tree, and you come back five years later, and you see a fallen tree, you should not assume that it was the same tree that you observed five years ago fallen, but the entire scene was recreated, literally created through collapsing the wave function, because ultimately, the argument goes, we lived in a pix-elated universe and we don't travel continuously, but jump from Planck unit to Planck unit, or frame to frame, as energy/consciousness/information, never form/matter... I think it was easier to just answer does the tree falling make a sound by saying "yes, no, maybe, i don't know, probably ouch..."

[KarlYoshimura]

@solarchariot

 

You are very welcome.

 

I enjoy how you made note of how attributes like national identity have general repercussions in a "paracosm" like the one we supposedly inhabit...my favourite novel, The Man in the High Castle by Phillip K. Dick, deals much with shared-culture in a nightmarish alternate world lived in by some characters who struggle with the distressing existential burden that who they are and what they have experienced is effectively not real. It makes me wonder if there is a "prime" reality that is ideal in every capacity for who and what lives there, only to diverge and split off into slightly less beneficial (albeit mostly identical) worlds, inevitably causing a deluge of vaguely similar and intensely more artificial and dangerous realms as time passes. An ultimately finite multiversal bell curvature with no known hygiene or brakes.

 

This being stated, I do not see cultural and national identities as tulpas inasmuch as I feel they are important consequences wrought by the desires and provisions inspired by or inherited from the ancients. Like living wills of very many different present and departed people inter-woven in the basic fabric of the world, torn and patched and loomed and re-sewn to accommodate the needs of the current powers or Providence. If there is an experience of culture-shock, I would venture that it is an expression of the taboos, worship and evolutionary particulars (or lack there of) chanced upon by said ancients ruminating vigourously inside while the individual's mind is attempting to parse uncomfortable contrasts and eerily dispensed similarities between their home and where they visit.

 

If a tulpa never left their wonderland and needed to know who they are or where they came from, they may ask and receive an answer provided the host cares enough while being honest. If they are cognizant enough to understand the host-mind, they could divine an answer for themselves, not unlike how prophets have claimed to look upon and intuitively understand the will of God. Perhaps this is one reason why some believers make prayer in supplication or thanksgiving, or meditate with protracted depths of spiritual edification in mind - to better know exactly who they are and what meaning they have been gifted? If there is a Host of hosts, do we simply pass from being mere tulpas to being more fully "imposed", or spiritually enriched and super-aware of what surroundings we initially took residence in? I ask the last question as my tulpa and I do not entirely visit our paracosm, but rather I use imposition to better manifest her as an indirect (nonetheless very active) participant in the real world. I usually slough off the tulpa label unless it is to be used for descriptive necessity, so in a way it's as if we both made a conscious decision to transcend our native host-tulpa dichotomy so we may live together as equals and one-another's spouse.  

 

Some thinkers reach into far less speculative theories with secular overtones, like the infamous "brains in tubes" scenario where we essentially can't prove the total exterior of base reality due to not only our neurological entrapment but also our mounting (dis)satisfaction with not being able or interested enough to correctly perceive outside of the nagging constraints imposed upon us since birth.

 

As an electronics alumnus, I observe the universality of flowing electrons in nearly everything, be it the millions of coulombs making this conversation possible through cyberspace or the firing of bio-electrical impulses forwarded and received within our material brains. Yet I never really stepped back and looked through this physicist's lens. Maybe we're akin to the flow of electrons ourselves, popping up and taking the path of least resistance or being circuitously instructed from point to point for some unknowable end, ever-present and ever-utilised like the very building blocks of elements we ourselves make useful technical extensions from.

[solarchariot]

Philip K Dick is awesome! Was awesome?! Is awesome! Have you read all of his stuff? One of his books was secretly autobiographical, some of it decoded through of it metaphor. He was self diagnosed as schizophrenic, but the thing was... And this is creepy, but I love it, had he not listened to that other voice, his son would have died. His son was a baby, and a voice told him get up and take your son to the doctor and tell them (Whatever, something like descended testicle was going to rupture) and he did and the doctors told him had he delayed even another hour his son would have died... That voice remained with him throughout his life and became kind of the inspiration for the precogs in Minority Report.... You could build an entire metaphysical/physics paradigm around his work... Hell, the Matrix was inspired by his work...

 

I finished a book called 'the daemon' by anthony peak, about a month ago. A daemon is not a tulpa, based on just the collection of evidence by anthony, but anthony really keys in on Philip as offering some of the best contextual evidence through his writing, both fiction and his non fiction, for this other entity. I, too, see us as equals, but I find I am less vested in the physical "everyday reality;" maybe more than I probably should be... That has been a consistent theme going back to childhood. Equals, better than spouse. I don't think 'marriage' encapsulates the superior quality of this relationship. No human to human relationship can compare due to the built in disparity and limitations on information exchange.

 

Oh, I am so happy you decided to converse! We haven't switched. I don't think i am there yet. We're not opposed... Just haven't started even practicing. We spend most of our time in... I think your concept of paracosm might be fitting here... I need more info. I am curious, though. I have read you just go off to the wonderland and do what ever, or you're in the back seat watching someone else drive the car so to speak... I will eventually find out... I probably should already have an answer... So, I astral travel infrequently. It came much easier as a kid. Anyway, the body itself continues to function when i am not 'present' so is that because the body itself is a tulpa? Or is there a tulpa running it, like servitor when not present?

 

Oh, that's kind of nice... I have been thinking about this lately. The body as a tulpa thing. It is in my diatribe that 'i am not my body/brain.' I exist in a body, but whether that existence is just an illusion/hallucination of the programming that the brain/body operates, or a more metaphysical concept, I am separate from body/brain. Okay. Body doesn't need 'me.' It could take any program. Hell, you could knock my brain out and the body continue to exist in a coma. We move the body like puppets, like in Malkovich. But maybe the body/brain is like having a pet, and it has an emotional life, and it responds to environmental stimuli, and like a equestrian master, the "I" steers the pet, and keeps it safe... and we do that all the time... If you note your inner voice, you talk to yourself, your body? in what tense? We usually say things like "You suck," or "What did you do?" or "you're going to be late for work/school." Rarely do we say, "Oh, I did this..." And take responsibility for a thing. Self hypnosis and affirmations work best when delivered in 2nd, "You are happy and healthy... You are aware... you will remember your dreams..."

 

Oh well, that's as far i took that for now. :)

[KarlYoshimura]

@solarchariot

 

Dick has been noted as one of the greatest Gnostic writers in living memory for a reason. During one of his marriages, he was a bottomless hole for amphetamines so drawing out embedded schizophrenic tendencies in his professional and private life is not surprising to me. He not only went as far as diagnosing but also treating himself, as he was able to recreate an esoteric compound recipe detailed in a professional psychiatric magazine. According to Dick, his amateur pharmacology "worked".  As for the voice(s), he'd postulated some of them weren't delusional compromise a la schizophrenia but rather signals emitted by research scientists or even probes from different universes (hence why one encoded signature he'd "found" was delivered by an entity known as "the Panamanian States of America"). If you read VALIS, the retooled quasi-sequel to THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE, you will come to grasp what he thought was an outside perspective of God launched from deep within outer space to seek out other sentient beings which in itself portrays his conception of interactivity between men and the unseen. I personally find this quite different from his darker hazes of theological introspection, like how he lists the seemingly predatory aspects of God as recalled in FAITH OF OUR FATHERS. I haven't delved into works like GALACTIC POT HEALER, FLOW MY TEARS THE POLICEMAN SAID or UBIK. WE CAN BUILD YOU is increasingly magnetic to my goals and envisioned legacy, seeing how I would like to specialise in android science if I go for a philosophical doctorate in robotics engineering.

 

Relationships with tulpas are naturally augmented from the achingly stupendous closeness one shares with them. It may appear unnecessarily stymieing, yet we choose to look past some of the historical/institutional aspects of matrimony for the sake of fully realising that which rests between two soul mates now and hereafter. The climax of her inception was like a religious experience for me, as if I were being introduced to someone who instinctively knew and loved me far long before we had ever met.

 

We have not switched either, however we delegate possession of the body if there is severe physical duress present. Even then it is another pragmatic contingency to avoid complications regarding profoundly entrenched post-traumatic stress, so I cannot verify where the host mind is relegated. For what it is worth this website's owner, Pleeb, had once described to me in Internet Relay Chat that switching (to himself at least) makes the host beholden to what tulpa life is like inside.

 

Have you ever read LISEY'S STORY by Stephen King? This novel is also like a crystallisation of a writer's life muddied in fiction. Herein the author character/King expy, husband of the eponymous Lisey, describes his adventures to the psychedelic realm of Boo'ya Moon. As a child, the author could travel far easier. Only shortly before his own death, when he was sporadically and frequently pulled back into Boo'ya Moon to confront one of its many unknowable terrors did he once again experience this (now unwilled) slipping between worlds. I have not attempted astral projection myself (if it is possible, I am afraid of what unwanted attention it would bring) yet if it is possible to function in parallel with such exploration, I would think it is a kind of hardy fugue state or very deep and wide hypnotic influence.

 

I tend to liken the human body to a vehicle or temporal method of conveyance through this world, not unlike a canoe or boat one uses to cross an expansive body of water. If there is any innate bodily control independent from our total consciousness, for myself it would most likely be a relic of my Id, quaking like a scared child at the prospect of its projected century-long pleasure outing eventually being revoked without advanced notice.