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Ranger

How does a 24/7 tulpa stay quiet?

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It was suggested I work on being a 24/7 tulpa, but aside from my lacking desire to be with Cat 24/7 I realized another problem. How does a 24/7 tulpa stay quiet?

First, if I'm around all the time I'm going to be bored. Cat likes to code, work on some math theory, role play with her brother, and do her class without my intervention. While I could make a suggestion or two if I hung around while she coded, I would be bored out of my head while she did the second thing, I have nothing I can contribute to the third thing, and I can impair Cat's ability to focus on the fourth thing. The concept of listening but not having my thoughts tangle up with Cat's without the ability to hide each other's thoughts is completely beyond me.

Second, I have some strong opinions and feelings about certain things and the emotional bleed could be a problem. For example, I have my opinions about Cat's mother. Cat doesn't want to express how I feel about her, and I don't want to make Cat anxious by projecting my opinion when she has a conflicting one.

Does anyone have any ideas or things they tried to prevent or reduce these problems?


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

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Posted (edited)

For the time our host was main fronter, she tried her best to keep us around all the time, for anything, by passively thinking about us every now and then including us in the context of what she was doing. She didn't like the idea of us going inactive against our will, so she strongly believed we wouldn't unless we decided to. Now, whether or not we truly were active 24/7 is debatable. We've come to ponder if we could've gone inactive without realizing, but thanks to the mindset we held, it gave us the illusion we were there all the time. We also didn't get bored that frequently while we were not thinking, only if we were actively existing, do you get bored if you're just observing without thinking about anything? I can't remember if you or Cat do.

 

Anyway, Miri was able to ''hide'' thoughts from us and she was really stubborn about that bad mindset. But apparently every now and then, we'd react and reply to thoughts we weren't supposed to see, so my guess is that we could see them, but because of said mindset, there was a lot of denial and confabulation in between. I don't know how you can actually hide thoughts from each other, and wouldn't really recommend the ''method'' our host used.

 

As for how to stay quiet, we...just did if she was busy. Miri was the only one thinking unless there was something associated with us or we were expected to, and ''not being able'' to hear her thoughts didn't give room for us to comment on them (however that works, given it was mostly denial). So our mind was quiet most of the time, completely passive existence. When it came to things we had a strong opinion about, we didn't really feel the necessity to comment on them most of the time since it was our host fronting (therefore, it was her business, maybe try to think about it as Cat fronting = her business), so unless we were talking to each other, we weren't really thinking about it. But this was from when Miri was fronting 24/7 and we just existed in the background, mostly detached from everything, so I don't know how it'd be for tulpas like you who front a lot. I think I would have trouble staying quiet after being so active.

Edited by Mirichu

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Mirichu said:

We also didn't get bored that frequently while we were not thinking, only if we were actively existing, do you get bored if you're just observing without thinking about anything? I can't remember if you or Cat do.


I guess that's where I'm confused. How can I be both active and not thinking? Usually I go inactive when I stop thinking, but other times I'm in this weird null state where I'm easier to summon but I'm not processing anything consciously either. Kind of like when you are having a conversation with a headmate and the other is the one talking.

The other concept I find confusing is how can I observe without thinking? When I think of "observing", I'm thinking about active listening. I may not respond, but I'm processing what's happening around me. If I "observed" without the listening part, I would have to wait until someone woke me up in order for me to go "what? I wasn't paying attention". That would be equivalent to what we can already do- Cat or a trigger will wake me up and the brain will feed me some context if I wasn't gone for long.

If I'm inactive, the brain may process some of my thoughts outside of my presence and then that sometimes cause me to wake up, but I don't think that's the same thing.

 

25 minutes ago, Mirichu said:

I don't know how you can actually hide thoughts from each other, and wouldn't really recommend the ''method'' our host used.


Yeah I have no idea either.

 

The 24/7 tulpa concept came up because Hope was asking about how to parallel process to those who believed who could do it and one said it was a fundamental requirement, but being able to hide thoughts/memories is a parallel processing thing. I think it's pretty confusing that I need to be able to parallel process before I can learn how to parallel process?

From our experience, even memories our headmates don't want to share or things we never expected our headmates to know end up getting "known" anyway, so I agree that a change in mindset probably won't be enough to make any radical changes to how our brain handles memories and general system knowledge.
 

25 minutes ago, Mirichu said:

When it came to things we had a strong opinion about, we didn't really feel the necessity to comment on them most of the time since it was our host fronting (therefore, it was her business, maybe try to think about it as Cat fronting = her business), so unless we were talking to each other, we weren't really thinking about it.


That makes sense, let the fronter do all of the worrying. This is a skill I'm sadly pretty terrible at. Even now when I'm upset and I'm not supposed to be fronting, I end up waking myself up to think about that thing or Cat accidentally wakes me up because my ghost spat something out and she entertained it.

I think it goes back to my first question of how do you observe without thinking, but not being focused on something triggering to begin with is probably a good way of avoiding that problem. I just don't know how helpful a mindless trance-state is though, or how that's different from being a call away at all times.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ranger said:

I guess that's where I'm confused. How can I be both active and not thinking? Usually I go inactive when I stop thinking, but other times I'm in this weird null state where I'm easier to summon but I'm not processing anything consciously either.

The other concept I find confusing is how can I observe without thinking? When I think of "observing", I'm thinking about active listening. I may not respond, but I'm processing what's happening around me. If I "observed" without the listening part, I would have to wait until someone woke me up in order for me to go "what? I wasn't paying attention".

 

I wouldn't call that being completely active, just passively existing. You're there watching the fronter do stuff but you don't really think anything. In our case, when I front, only my thoughts are being experienced if no one else is thinking. It's like I'm the filter and existence is being experienced through me. This only happens with Miri though, because she's not detached enough to stop paying attention to what's going on, so to her it still feels like she's there but not the one thinking.

 

When we held the mindset we couldn't hear her thoughts, it didn't feel like we were existing as her, just blank mind. But as I said before, it involved confabulation and denial, so I can't say for sure. If not thinking automatically meant you can't observe, then we wouldn't be having so much trouble with our host being there. Wasn't Cat in that situation at some point? still there but not thinking.

 

1 hour ago, Ranger said:

The 24/7 tulpa concept came up because Hope was asking about how to parallel process to those who believed who could do it and one said it was a fundamental requirement, but being able to hide thoughts/memories is a parallel processing thing. I think it's pretty confusing that I need to be able to parallel process before I can learn how to parallel process?

 

I'm not sure about parallel processing, but we're a bit doubtful about hiding thoughts from people sharing the same head if both parts are actively listening (I guess you could stop paying attention to them, and having limited awareness of what's going on if you're not very active, but that's different from literally trying to hear them and not being able to). Believe me, our host believed 100%  we couldn't, and then there we were, reacting and replying like we could, and then acting surprised at ''new'' knowledge we didn't know about. It was pure denial caused by clinging onto that mindset for so long.

 

I didn't recommend it not because it's hard to do, but because it can lead to gaps and contradictions. 'Oh yeah I totally didn't know that despite reacting to it'.

 

1 hour ago, Ranger said:

That makes sense, let the fronter do all of the worrying. This is a skill I'm sadly pretty terrible at. Even now when I'm upset and I'm not supposed to be fronting, I end up waking myself up to think about that thing or Cat accidentally wakes me up because my ghost spat something out and she entertained it.

 

 

Maybe you're bad at it because you're also the host? It was easy for me to not care about what Miri was doing because it was her life back then, so maybe you can't stop paying attention because you also consider it your business. Just a thought.

 

Edited by Mirichu

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I think 24/7 is exaggerating a bit in most cases, just being active whenever your host has a spare moment is the peak activity I'd expect the most dedicated systems to have, unless they're gifted with the non-fronting systemmates being able to actually be active 24/7 which is pretty dang rare and not even necessarily a good thing


Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written

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41 minutes ago, Mirichu said:

It's like I'm the filter and existence is being experienced through me. This only happens with Miri though, because she's not detached enough to stop paying attention to what's going on, so to her it still feels like she's there but not the one thinking.

41 minutes ago, Mirichu said:

If not thinking automatically meant you can't observe, then we wouldn't be having so much trouble with our host being there. Wasn't Cat in that situation at some point? still there but not thinking.

 

Ah, I see what you mean.


There are certain "layers" to thoughts. There's the conscious layer and then there's an unconscious one. We assume that inactive = not thinking consciously, but I think it can be implied the only valid unconscious thoughts a headmate can have and still be considered active is when they're switched-in, at least in our system. When Cat is switched-in, her unconscious layer is more pronounced and can overpower my or anyone else's conscious layers. Therefore, when she reacts to something, she can steal control and I am forced into inactivity, and hence the confusion as to whether or not Cat is actually active.

 

Cat being switched-out means her thoughts can fly under the radar, even thought they can overpower our streams of thought. We can process thought while switched-out, it's just our thought processes float to the top or dominate and we can't as easily have sneaky side thoughts fly under the radar like Cat's can. Weirdly enough, because those are not our thoughts, it's easier for us to react to them. Cat would think something and then go "Wait, I meant something else" but I and my headmates already heard the first thing she said and we have an opinion about it.

So I guess to a greater extent, we are always observing, it's just being done by one process in the brain and the information it gathers is shared for the entire system. Cat's unconscious thoughts get more power to them when she's switched-in and as a result it creates the illusion she's always around when in reality Cat's ghost is just the absolute worst.

I don't know if the idea of a 24/7 tulpa assumes a tulpa can naturally parallel process anyway, or I'm just not understanding this.
 

59 minutes ago, Mirichu said:

Maybe you're bad at it because you're also the host? It was easy for me to not care about what Miri was doing because it was her life back then, so maybe you can't stop paying attention because you also consider it your business. Just a thought.


That's entirely possible. Cat doesn't have trouble with the other Shadows being angry about something Cat is experiencing because they're not required to pay any attention to begin with. They usually hide when they feel uninterested and come back via a trigger or a name call, which is usually the only times they want to be awake anyway.

Moltosha is more likely to wake up for some random reason, but he's more curious about Cat's schedule and what she does more than anyone else which makes me wonder if he's a better candidate for being a 24/7 tulpa. However, he has little if any associations with things in real life that make him angry.


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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1 hour ago, Ranger said:

I don't know if the idea of a 24/7 tulpa assumes a tulpa can naturally parallel process anyway, or I'm just not understanding this.

 

To us, a 24/7 tulpa is the equivalent of a ''front stuck'' host. Not doing anything themselves, but still there, watching everything that's going on. You don't need parallel processing at all for that. That'd be if you wanted to have two separate streams of thoughts at the same time, but not if what you want is being there as a passive observer.

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