What do you do if you think your tulpa might be becoming depressed

[YukariTelepath]

So, I never see Rena talk on the forums. What does Rena have to say about these things?
Rena, are there things you want to do, do you want to talk to other people online maybe?

The other thing is TB, you seem to be putting a lot of pressure on Rena to be perfect, perfectly separate, never affected or influenced by you/your brain etc, which I feel is... not fair to her and maybe does not give a healthy environment for her to actually do things and grow because she's being judged at every turn. If Rena has said more than a few words in general (and I think you've indicated that she has), I believe she is capable of moving forward, speaking fully like a normal person, doing stuff like switching, but maybe you need to accept that it may not* feel like a magical entity beaming alien thoughts into your head and possessing your body like you might see in a movie. And some ways your shared brain works may affect her. And that's okay.

 

*I don't think it will. It doesn't for us. But you certainly won't improve feelings of separation by not practicing things, like giving up switching because it wasn't perfect when you tried. 

[Rena Bonnie]

1 hour ago, YukariTelepath said:

So, I never see Rena talk on the forums. What does Rena have to say about these things?
Rena, are there things you want to do, do you want to talk to other people online maybe?

 

I think I'd love to talk to people online more, and I try to in PMs usually, but the conversations are usually pretty short lived. I'm not sure how to make closer friends or having longer talks like TB does. 

 

I believe TB does want to get out of the way and not judge while I try to switch in, but that is the problem. It is like a tick or habit, and they don't know how to uninvolve their thoughts and feelings, and it doesn't feel very real for both of us, like our first switch did. Either TB or the body will freak out if I try to go somewhere or talk to someone while presumably switched, and it is exhausting for both of us, so at best we can kind of switch in private but not really do much with it since all other inclinations also are residually there, like lack of motivation. 

 

We can't seem to figure out why the first switch was so different, and why attempts to recreate it fail. Maybe we haven't meditated enough or something. TB had had some doubtful thoughts lately that maybe the switch never actually happened like we think it did. I'm convinced something unique and peculiar happened though, and we still struggle to recreate it. 

 

"Switching" if discounting the special first one (and maybe some others) seems really easy, actually. We aren't sure what it is, but maybe I'm switched in right now as I type this. Or maybe this is what possession is? Whatever this other experience is, it can be flipped into automatically, but while it is easy, it has a lot of drawbacks. 

[Murk]

Something that has helped a lot for me is keeping my own physical habits as distinct as possible from Eli, my host. For me, that means being deliberately left-handed wherever I can, but that doesn't have to be the case so long as it is deliberate. Another practice is actually getting more physical with our body by exercising with weights. It takes a lot of concentration at first to move weights as yourself, but I end up associating with the body a lot more firmly and faster. I think it may have something to do with the endorphin release. For us, when I am more associated with our body, Eli is less, and the other way around is true as well.

[YukariTelepath]

Hello Rena!

 

19 hours ago, Rena Bonnie said:

"Switching" if discounting the special first one (and maybe some others) seems really easy, actually.

 

Switching can be very easy, yes. I had to search a bit to remind myself of your first switch experience, and I'm not sure what to make of it--it almost sounds like some sort of altered state, where you felt exceptionally "blank" but nothing TB said really indicated Rena was involved, in charge, etc. Rena, were you having Rena thoughts at that time? For us, switching involves the new fronter having all the internal monologuing by default, so they have a lot of thoughts which makes it pretty clear that they are at least there and in control.

 

As for your other switching experiences, it sounds like making switch attempts but getting interference from the host. 

 

18 hours ago, Rena Bonnie said:

Either TB or the body will freak out if I try to go somewhere or talk to someone while presumably switched, and it is exhausting for both of us, so at best we can kind of switch in private but not really do much with it since all other inclinations also are residually there, like lack of motivation. 

 

Losing front when trying to do things seems to be a common thing with learning to switch. In our experience, habits, muscle memory, speech, etc are strongly associated with the host, and trying to do those things can trigger the host, and you just have to push through, assert yourself, rewrite in your brain that you can do those things too. Confidence is important. You can get up and walk around. You can talk to people (this one can be extra tough). The brain may want to do its ingrained habits, including thinking the kinds of things TB thinks about, but you can gradually increase your stability in front. Maybe you switch for 30 min, and start to lose control of those things. After a while, maybe you can manage a hour or two and so on. There may be some times when you seem have a worse time than you did on a previous day. That's okay, take a break and try another time. 

 

Also, I noticed when TB talks about switching, they talk as if they did all the things? Should be Rena doing the things, even when talking about it in retrospect "Rena did XYZ and had to remind herself she was switched in." Framing is important. Tulpamancy is a mental practice and the way we think about our internal experience shapes it.

 

As for talking with other people, Discord is popular these days. You can hop on a tulpa server or a non-tulpa server and chat with lots of people. I find talking in real time more engaging than forums/pms. Forums are better for long form discussion, live chats are good for well, chatting.

[Rena Bonnie]

3 hours ago, YukariTelepath said:

Hello Rena!

 

Hello!

 

3 hours ago, YukariTelepath said:

I had to search a bit to remind myself of your first switch experience, and I'm not sure what to make of it--it almost sounds like some sort of altered state, where you felt exceptionally "blank" but nothing TB said really indicated Rena was involved, in charge, etc. Rena, were you having Rena thoughts at that time?

 

It's been a while, but I believe so, yes. Things had a pleasant blankness compared to the normal state of TB's mind, but I think it is because I am calmer and think less unnecessary thoughts. Their voice and presence moved outside of the body like mine usually is, and I wasn't privy to their normal thoughts unless they intended to speak to me. It was pretty great, and it was fairly obvious that their will and emotional reactions had little to no effect on the body, and at best I'd mostly just be aware of how they felt, without it feeling like I was feeling it myself.

 

3 hours ago, YukariTelepath said:

Losing front when trying to do things seems to be a common thing with learning to switch. In our experience, habits, muscle memory, speech, etc are strongly associated with the host, and trying to do those things can trigger the host, and you just have to push through, assert yourself, rewrite in your brain that you can do those things too.

 

Well, I hope we can try this more. It makes TB uncomfortable for me to experience things like they do, though. They wish it could be like the first time everytime, haha, and so do I.

 

3 hours ago, YukariTelepath said:

Also, I noticed when TB talks about switching, they talk as if they did all the things? Should be Rena doing the things, even when talking about it in retrospect "Rena did XYZ and had to remind herself she was switched in." Framing is important. Tulpamancy is a mental practice and the way we think about our internal experience shapes it.

 

It is because TB's concept of self has a lot to do with their continuous flow of experience, and that doesn't seem to move when switching, so deep down it is still them in a way. They don't strongly identify with an identity since they've flipped to different identities growing up to cope with things, and continuous experience is the only real stable thing for them that makes their existence real to themselves. 

 

3 hours ago, YukariTelepath said:

As for talking with other people, Discord is popular these days. You can hop on a tulpa server or a non-tulpa server and chat with lots of people. I find talking in real time more engaging than forums/pms. Forums are better for long form discussion, live chats are good for well, chatting.

 

I agree! I think discord would be much better. It's just getting TB's social anxiety and inhibitions out of the way. I don't think they should be there for me, as from the place I normally understand myself from, it isn't much a problem at all. Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to will over the way the body/TB is... But the first switch makes me believe it ought to somehow be possible for all that conditioning to be made irrelevant. Still really stumped as to what we did.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Rena Bonnie