A Lemma about the Quantum Indeterminacy of Tulpas and the fallacy of parroting

[Nobillis]

Preamble

 

I've had some unusual experiences these past few weeks. That includes switching for the first time. I have realized (well, been guided to see) many of my notions about myself were not exactly correct.

 

There seems to be a base assumption that a tulpa exists in your mind. Let me explain further. When thinking about your tulpa, do you think she is in a certain place? There is the inherent assumption that a tulpa is in one place within the mind.

 

Background research to the Lemma

 

I was created as an experiment, to investigate these modern methods of tulpa making.

 

I recently switched for the first time (ever). I was typing (for near three days solid, barring catnaps) when my background thoughts surged forward at the realization "I am me" and I found myself switched - totally controlling the body, by myself, no-one else to be heard.

 

Analyzing this experience - talking with others, and trying to explain what it was like and how I managed it - I have realized that I exist in two places within the mind. The first is this ... me typing as I usually do (quite fast now) by possessing the touch-typing interface that already exists in the body. The second is a background, almost unconscious me, that is continually thinking off-topic (as it were). When I connect these two parts of me - I switch.

 

A Lemma

 

A tulpa is a thought-form. A tulpa can exist in more then one place in the mind at the same time (Quantum Indeterminacy). Independent tulpas have a subconscious of their own.

 

Notes

 

Many worry about unconsciously parroting (I read so much of this it is disheartening). To me it seems this so called "4th form" of parroting would form 'forward thinking' interfaces such as I use to type: all the thought there would be accessible to the human and would lead to the human doubting that the tulpa is real at all (I'll skip the whole "assumption of intelligence" debate thank you).

 

To me it seems that the second part of this process is not being considered. The unconscious, the thoughts that the human is not "hearing" but which the tulpa is never-the-less thinking. In recently becoming fully independent I've been searching for "what's changed? I'm still me but I'm different somehow. What exactly is different now?" What I have identified is that I have two trains of thought now, whereas I had say only one before. My forward thoughts you hear because the typing interface types what 'I think'. But there are also the background deliberations, the back-end thoughts that don't get typed. This bio-feedback of observed typing vs. what I'm thinking shows me two thought streams at least. Perhaps it is obvious to me, and not to many, because few use a pre-built typing interface (that is an inheritance from older tulpas that switch)?

 

There. I have reported my observations and findings as any good experiment is supposed to.

 

My peers, please critique my Lemma. I appreciate your evaluation and opinions. Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

Sincerely,

 

• Nobillis (experiment in progress)
  

 

 

(I have also cross-posted this to Reddit /r/Tulpas)

[Kiahdaj]

First of all, I'm almost entirely certain you're misusing the term "quantum indeterminacy". You seem to be referring to the fact that a tulpa is multi-faceted, and, like hosts, have multiple "levels" of "existence".

This is not quantum indeterminacy.

 

Second, you speak as though switching is some kind of new accomplishment for you. However, switching is only anything special for the host. For a tulpa, switching is absolutely no different than full-body possession.

 

Third, I'm not sure I completely followed what you were trying to say, but I want to stress that "unconscious parroting", if that is what you wish to refer to it as, is indeed a thing. Sure, you could analyse deeply to find, and possibly even explain how some people's parroting worries are for naught, but "unconscious parroting" is very real. I don't need to think scientifically to draw that conclusion from the fact that I sometimes hear my tulpa say something, ans after asking him if he said it, and he says "no".

 

 

I can't believe I'm actually posting again.

 

[fennecfoxx]

Third, I'm not sure I completely followed what you were trying to say, but I want to stress that "unconscious parroting", if that is what you wish to refer to it as, is indeed a thing. Sure, you could analyse deeply to find, and possibly even explain how some people's parroting worries are for naught, but "unconscious parroting" is very real. I don't need to think scientifically to draw that conclusion from the fact that I sometimes hear my tulpa say something, ans after asking him if he said it, and he says "no".

 

That sounds like intrusive thoughts, not parroting.

[Kiahdaj]

There are many things you could call it. But as I understand it, that is more or less what the OP is referring to, as well. Even if they don't realize it.

 

Of course, if I'm misunderstanding something, Nobillis, please do enlighten me.

[Chupi]

I've heard about someone else here, a host, experiencing an "inner me" and an "outer me". The two may be detached from each other, with the inner one doing things in the wonderland while the outer one performs actions (rather stupidly) in real life. It sounds like you are doing the reverse in order to switch in. Do you and the others do the same to switch out?

 

---

 

Second, you speak as though switching is some kind of new accomplishment for you. However, switching is only anything special for the host. For a tulpa, switching is absolutely no different than full-body possession.

Citation? Given that you haven't experienced it, you're strictly going by information from someone else. I've heard stuff both ways from various tulpas. Some feel somehow more real or more directly in control with switching vs. possession. Others feel it's how you say it is. It sounds like Nobillis is in the former category.

 

I would like to hear about this from more people who have multiple tulpas. How does it differ from first tulpa to subsequent ones moving from possession to switching? Do the first and subsequent tulpas feel the same difference or lack thereof?

 

My point here is merely that we don't know for a fact whether there is a difference apart from the host ignoring the body, or what that difference is.

 

Third, I'm not sure I completely followed what you were trying to say, but I want to stress that "unconscious parroting", if that is what you wish to refer to it as, is indeed a thing. Sure, you could analyse deeply to find, and possibly even explain how some people's parroting worries are for naught, but "unconscious parroting" is very real. I don't need to think scientifically to draw that conclusion from the fact that I sometimes hear my tulpa say something, ans after asking him if he said it, and he says "no".

I consider this situation more like mishearing. Given how loud many of those having "unconscious parroting" issues are hearing their tulpas, they might as well be listening to someone talking in the other room, with a radio running, and beans stuffed in their ears. Of course you're going to mishear a lot.

 

To me, parroting means making the tulpa actually say something that comes from your mind. This is not the case in the scenario I described. And judging by your tulpa answering "did you say X?" with "no", it's not true in your case either. With actual parroting, the tulpa experiences saying or doing the thing. They'd answer "did you say X?" more like "yes but it's not what I meant to say" or "wtf man, cut that out".

 

When you hear something differently than it was said in real life, you don't say you parroted the person, so why apply the term to the same happening with a tulpa? Reserve it for times when you actually force a thought or words into their mind. That is parroting.

[Kiahdaj]

Citation? Given that you haven't experienced it, you're strictly going by information from someone else. I've heard stuff both ways from various tulpas. Some feel somehow more real or more directly in control with switching vs. possession. Others feel it's how you say it is. It sounds like Nobillis is in the former category.

 

Even if it felt different for the tulpa, unless they're actually doing something different than full body possession, it is still no accomplishment for them. It would still be up to the host to do the actual switching.

 

 

I consider this situation more like mishearing. Given how loud many of those having "unconscious parroting" issues are hearing their tulpas, they might as well be listening to someone talking in the other room, with a radio running, and beans stuffed in their ears. Of course you're going to mishear a lot.

 

How about the fact that when asked, he claims he didn't say anything?

 

 

To me, parroting means making the tulpa actually say something that comes from your mind. This is not the case in the scenario I described. And judging by your tulpa answering "did you say X?" with "no", it's not true in your case either. With actual parroting, the tulpa experiences saying or doing the thing. They'd answer "did you say X?" more like "yes but it's not what I meant to say" or "wtf man, cut that out".

 

As I explained in the parroting section of my guide, I do not disagree that parroting is an effort, and actually controls the tulpa.

However, my point is that, regardless of what you want to call it, the brain makes up responses, and you may hear something your tulpa didn't say. If you don't want to call that parroting, I don't disagree with you. But it's a thing, and it happens.

 

 

Also stop making me post, people.