[split] Tulpa Media and Ethics

[Guest amber5885]

Honestly I don't think you can force anyone to see what they don't want to see but I do agree that maybe lettin people know that tulpas are more than that might help.

 

Look I get what you're saying but we can't stop bad people from finding the community, they're going to find it one way or the other but maybe trying to inform people of what this whole this really is might do some good. It's better than sitting on our hands and just letting the chaos take over.

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P.S I am in no way saying that abuse of a tulpa is okay and we should just accept it because no. Not okay. But you can't force an asshole to change one way or the other. That stuff pisses me off too but I don't see a viable way of fixing it except by educating the already tulpamancing community

[Guest Anonymous]

MrCrazy, amber5885, I want the two of you to send me PMs. Vent about what you dislike, state what you would like to see, what needs fixing, all that jazz. Can't fix everything, but I'll try, and if anything it'll get it off your chest.

[MrCrazy]

Chaos will take over. Sitting on our hands will slow it slightly. Doing stuff like, spreading awareness will accelerate it.

And I really don't see how educating people would help. .info already tried that.

 

Honestly, keeping assholes away is the only viable damage control I can see. Even if that means keeping people who might not turn out to be assholes away.

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Hate to break it to you, but not only is no one going to help with a project (consistantly), but I really don't think anyone should.

 

Now hear me out.

 

Ignoring the fact that an idea like this has already been tossed around in the past, think about the ramifications of doing a book like this and expecting it to be taken seriously. The most serious aspects of a tulpa is more or less the creation process as well as methods people have used. And in turn, due to the subjectiveness of the matter (i.e. there's only your own way to make a tulpa), there's not much you can do with something like that besides making a something like an article, which has been done enough times as it is.

 

So what does that leave? Mainly the symbolic aspects of creating a tulpa. And once again, because making a tulpa is an entirely personal experiance, it leaves the realm of reality and borderline enters fiction. In other words, no one will take your tulpa or any of the tulpalamas featured in the book any more seriously (in fact, anyone who read it might think even less of them) than without. So for that reason, I doubt you're going make much headway with this project.

 

However, I do condone the idea of working on your own personal journal to doccument your own experiences in a private like... way. Trust me, even if you don't put it out into the world (one way or the other, I can promise you that you won't), you can focus more on your own group, instead of documenting the subjective and often contradicting experiances of others.

 

After reading this, a little of my faith in humanity is restored.

[SerjRocketeer]

Are you serious right now MrCrazy?

 

That's like me saying that pens should be removed from the masses because some people write low quality material.

Or that we should take cameras away from masses because someone doesn't like porn, and they see people using cameras to produce porn.

Or that we should ban any kind of sexual activities because pedophiles exist.

 

If you are going to tell me those examples are nothing like it then I'm going to tell you that you have no business in other peoples tulpas and the way they treat them shouldn't affect you at all, and that they've only got themselves to hurt.

Besides, you mention how incredibly "unbelievable" and absurd this idea is, like it is not rocketeer science or some shit, but is it really that hard for you to find good points in this? Because if it is I'm sure the community would like to help you with that.

 

You're either trying to be a very spexul snowflake for the sake of being a spexul snowflake or one of us is being pretty delusional and self-centered.

 

But hey, maybe I'm just talking out of my ass again.

 

edit: To clarify I'm not saying this is or isn't a bad idea, I'm just contesting the validity of your argument.

[MrCrazy]

Yeah, you p much are talking out of your ass. good job.

 

I shall indeed tell you that those examples are nothing like tulpas. Because people don't have such a high chance of going on a stabbing spree as they do abusing a tup. Low quality material is irrelevant and is not a problem.

And it is my business, because I actually give a shit if fucked up sit is happening and people are getting hurt because of it. If people are going to abuse their tulpas or rape them or kill them or whatever, that is my fucking buisiness.

And I've seen the good points. I'm an oldfag. The good points just aren't as good as the bad points are bad.

 

So yeah, try talking out of your mouth next time instead.

[SerjRocketeer]

Because people don't have such a high chance of going on a stabbing spree as they do abusing a tup.

This seems a bit fallacious. I'll go into absurd levels here: you're basically saying that chemistry and physics should never be a thing because of the amount of people those things have killed. Does that sound sane to you? And you may say that it is different because you actually can have a hand in denying the general population this particular knowledge, but would you remove physics and chemistry from the general population if you could? Is the entertainment that my computer, and the security my local hospital provide worth the countless deaths and suffering by things like chemical weapons? Are the "bad" points not as bad as the "good" points are good?

 

Jesus, I sound ridiculous right now...

 

From a post earlier by you (I don't really know how to quote properly, sorry, I'll look into it):

Honestly, keeping assholes away is the only viable damage control I can see. Even if that means keeping people who might not turn out to be assholes away.

Apply that to the above.

I guess my overall point is that people DO "have a decently high chance of going on a stabbing spree", but that that doesn't keep the world from spinning.

 

... because I actually give a shit if fucked up sit is happening and people are getting hurt because of it.

So you're basically saying that a person with any sort of problems should be denied a tulpa in the first place because their problems can become a burden to their tulpas?

Further more, you're (clearly) saying that because some people mistreat or hurt their tulpas the rest of the world should be denied the knowledge of their existence. What makes you entitled to have a tulpa then? Do you not hurt them? Well, I don't know that.

 

I know I'm going into extremes here, but it shouldn't be to hard to associate my examples, at least somewhat, with the subject at hand. It's not exactly rocketeer science...

Ok, maybe it is...

But if it is at least treat it like that. Don't just throw the old "this is obvious as shit!" card and call it a day.

 

If people are going to abuse their tulpas or rape them or kill them or whatever, that is my fucking buisiness.

Once again, very egotistical.

 

Logic aside tho, I can see what your concern is, believe me, it's not hard to understand, but:

1. Lets talk numbers (as in "most people") which seems to be one of the things that concerns you the most. Creating a tulpa is a huge deal, not like I can create a tulpa in 5 minutes and decide that it is now my fleshlight. The process of creating a tulpa should sensitize people to what they are. I really do not think most people would want to hurt their tulpas. You're basically saying that if most people got stuck forever on a basement with another person without arms or legs (basically who couldn't retaliate in any way (even tho tulpas can)), never to be seen again they would kill or desire to hurt the other person.

2. THEY CAN ONLY HURT THEMSELVES. Think about it, if they hurt their tulpas who are they really ultimately hurting?

3. I don't doubt for a second that you've seen lots of people mistreat their tulpas, but come on man, is this community really big enough to represent the average person?

4. Think of the people who could really use a tulpa in their lives. The people who actually WOULD take the time to bring a tulpa into their lives. Think of the lonely david, or the misunderstood Carla. Who are you to deny them this comfort and help? Do you want to deny them this comfort and help? I would guess not since you seem like a person who cares.

 

But hey, maybe the ol' A is just feeling chatty today.

[Guest amber5885]

The only thing I would like to add is that those people who abuse and rape or torture their tulpas..... How do you even know they have them?

 

There is a lot of people in the community I would bet actual money that don't have a tulpa but rather an imaginary friend and a lot of hope.

 

For every 1 person I see that does something horrid to their tulpas there are 10 more living peaceful loving lives with theirs and while it sucks and it kind of makes me want to murder some people I find it best to forget te anger and concentrait on the ones who want only the best.

 

All we can do is educate. What others do after that we cannot control but we can control how we react to those people.

[MrCrazy]

pah. without physics and chemistry people would still be killing each other over shit. So it evens out imo.

 

 

And people murdering and shit? That's everybodies buisiness because you know, generally people don't take kindly to that sort of thing.

 

 

What makes me entitled to have a tulpa? I'm not entitled. had I had the choice, I'd not have tulpas anyways. (shockhorror, some people accidently get tulpas)

 

I say this should be obvious, most likely because I'm an oldfag and I've been bombarded by the bullshit from the tulpa community. Your profile suggests you're new unless you have been lurking for a while or whatever.

 

1. I'm saying because tups are mental entities, people justify what they do to then in their heads because 'imajinewwy'

 

2. they are hurting their tulpas. I don't get where you were going with this.

 

3. generally people who make tups aren't the 'avarage person' so it's not nesessarily going to attract a whole lot of the avarage person. From my experience, like 90% of mancers are unstable in some way. Even the ones who are my friends.

 

4. And it sucks that 'lonley Davids' have to go through that shit. Asshole mancers doing what they're doing however, makes me see that it's really not worth it just for 'lonley davids.' Tulpas aren't the only therapy in the world.

[SerjRocketeer]

pah. without physics and chemistry people would still be killing each other over shit. So it evens out imo.

Without tulpas people would still be hurting other beings so that kind of... events it out (?)

What the fuck do you even mean by "So it evens out"?

 

And people murdering and shit? That's everybodies buisiness because you know, generally people don't take kindly to that sort of thing.

I never said it wasn't. Ok, I said something earlier that I regret. I said:

...you have no business in other peoples tulpas and the way they treat them shouldn't affect you at all.

This is not necessarily true because people can develop tendencies from tulpas as well. From this point I just want to say that while before I tried to make a disconnect between tulpas and the rest of the people, the main point of my latest post was to connect tulpas, to any other idea by comparing their situation with the human situation caused by that other idea (IGN 10/10 explanation: "It's OK."). For instance, I connected tulpas being hurt to humans being hurt by comparing the effect of chemistry on humans against the "effect of existance" on tulpas. Look, this is hard OK? I hope I made myself at least a bit clear.

 

had I had the choice, I'd not have tulpas anyways.

Seriously? Are you really going to pull one of these?

Do you not like your tulpa(s)? Do you think you're hurting them? That they are hurting you? You know the non existent can't suffer or cause suffering right? Do you get where I'm going with this?

 

I say this should be obvious, most likely because I'm an oldfag and I've been bombarded by the bullshit from the tulpa community.

This is what I'm reading from this sentence: "I refuse to think outside of my bias around this community. Nobody should take what I'm saying seriously." I hate the word "bias" but whatever, the point is, this isn't even about this community. This community already knows what a tulpa is, is basically what I'm saying. Your argument is relevant in the discussion of bringing the concept to the masses yet is built around your bias for the people over here. If you're implying that the rest of the world will fall into what you see over here, I urge you to reconsider.

Look, you could be the first guy in this forum for all I cared, you could've been tapping your foot waiting for the owner to open this place, but that is simply no excuse to treat any kind of social science as trivially or as being so simple as you have been treating this matter so far.

 

And yes, I've not been here for long.

 

1. I'm saying because tups are mental entities, people justify what they do to then in their heads because 'imajinewwy'

 

I went trough this:

Creating a tulpa is a huge deal, not like I can create a tulpa in 5 minutes and decide that it is now my fleshlight. The process of creating a tulpa should sensitize people to what they are. (...) You're basically saying that if most people got stuck forever on a basement with another person without arms or legs (basically who couldn't retaliate in any way (even tho tulpas can)), never to be seen again they would kill or desire to hurt the other person.

 

It might be a little obscure, and I understand it can be considered a little detached from what you're saying but this has two primary points to make:

1. People will have to understand tulpas as a separate entity (which you did address) in order to even create them;

2. The time it takes to make a tulpa means that the person making them will probably be attached to them.

 

Are you saying that most people are too dumb to understand that a tulpa is basically another living being without a body of its own? Because I think the creation process deals with this pretty well. I completely understand where you're coming from, I just don't know if this is really a "thing" in practice or not. But this is still not the bulk of the discussion and to me you're just repeating yourself at the core ("people are bad, therefore they can't have tulpas").

Also, I don't know what an "imajinewwy" is.

 

2. they are hurting their tulpas. I don't get where you were going with this.

 

Their tulpa is a part of themselves.

Now that you made me say it I wont look so mystical and shit anymore... thanks a lot brah!

 

3. generally people who make tups aren't the 'avarage person' so it's not nesessarily going to attract a whole lot of the avarage person. From my experience, like 90% of mancers are unstable in some way. Even the ones who are my friends.

Ok, lets narrow it down. So that means that you actually think 90% (or a say, more than 30%), of the people who have problems and who would love to have a companion in the form of a tulpa are sociopaths? Really man?

 

4. And it sucks that 'lonley Davids' have to go through that shit. Asshole mancers doing what they're doing however, makes me see that it's really not worth it just for 'lonley davids.'

I have no rebuttal for this. I don't normally feel many feels, but I feel sad you feel that way.

;_;

 

I get the feeling you don't like this community very much. They seem nice to me tho, but again, I'm pretty new. But hey...

[Guest amber5885]

There are good and bad people in every community and there are a lot of good ones here.

 

1 point. My only point here.

 

Yes we know some people get tulpas on accident. Mines been with me 22 years. I didn't make him on purpose it just happened over time.

 

I, like you didn't have a choice in having a tulpa but I, like you do have a choice about being involved in the community. I could have taken my Niffty new explanation for Toby and gone on with my life but I, like you saw something of value here.

 

The simpleist solution to your problem is not to hijack a relatively peaceful thread and spew out hate because people aren't following the rules that you feel they should be following.

 

The simpleist solution would be to walk away and not participate if it makes you that upset.

 

You cannot control the actions of others you can only control your reaction to the moment.

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If you have such a problem with the mistreatment of tulpas Mrcrazy then why do you have a thread posted on the site where you ask how to dissipate a tulpa that you don't want?

 

I realize you are asking for the least cruel method but If we were to use your logic then asking how to painlessly kill someone is still murder so as far as I'm concerned you argument is now invalid.