Old Tulpa, new Tulpist.

[Toolbox]

I used to try to hold doors for my tulpa when I attempted this last time, but I felt self-conscious doing it. This time, I figure since Lyra is a unicorn, she can short-range teleport like Twilight does in the show. Makes it easier on both of us, I think.

 

That's been my problem, as well. I always fear someone will notice I'm lingering at doorways longer than I need to by their perception.

 

Thank you for the answer; it seems "breaking reality" a bit via utilizing the Tulpa's magic-or-somesuch abilities (if they have them) isn't too damaging, then.

 

I've held doors for Fenchurch in the past. These days she doesn't go anywhere she needs doors opened for her.

 

What do you mean, out of curiosity? Does she not accompany you often, or-...?

 

 

 

Had a bit of a "shock" lastnight with Hitamashii, saw a thread that recommended testing a Tulpa's sentience by asking them to surprise you. I asked Hita, and she just looked around blankly, the same way I do when someone asks me to do something on-the-spot with no preparation. We both took that hard, Hita in particular. She raised her voice gradually as she wondered if we were actually getting anywhere, but-... At this point, I wasn't sure if it was her, or me subconsciously parroting and puppeting. I know a lot of people say it's impossible to parrot/puppet without specifically intending to, but unfortunately (and detrimentally), I still have my doubts on that.

Usually, I'm the unrealistically-negative one, and she tries to inject some optimism. The roles were reversed this time, with me trying to be supportive and consoling, but it's certainly not my forte, and I was feeling quite down about it, as well.

 

She eventually did try to surprise me with a few things, including holding my face with her wing tips and giving a forehead-kiss, dripping a bit of herself on my shoulder in the form of liquid metal, and punching me in the back of the head twice. But they all felt forced and kind of expected, I could see a flash of the intention before they happened. Do those still count?

 

Anyway, I looked further back in the entire Tulpaforming process a bit, checking guides for what I haven't actually done. Narration is one somewhat-unfamiliar one, I've never just talked non-stop at Hita. What I can't seem to find is the "why" of narration. My guess is that it's to train the mind to constantly think about the Tulpa? Or are there other reasons for it?

 

I tend to be able to keep Hita in mind most of the time, but I admittedly do forget to every once in a while when playing games or eating. Oddly, I don't seem to forget when doing work at college.

 

I also thought about wonderlands a bit more while narrating in the shower (which admittedly felt rather crude and vulgar at times, but they say "narrate always", so-...). I hadn't really tried before, but it was surprisingly easy to get a quick start on it. I was just on my way out when it happened, so we didn't have long to go at it, but so far, there's a throne room with a massive bejeweled chair in the center. Will hopefully expand on it later.

 

Also, not terribly related to Hita or the rest of this process, but... Sushi, I took a look at your journal the other day and saw something about a computer-esque Heads-Up-Display servitor idea, and it amused me because that was something I tried to pull off alongside Hita back when I was at Furmorphed. :P Like Hita, I couldn't get it working with actual hypnosis, so I just forced it consciously. Was pretty neat, made me feel like a cyborg or something. It also "bled" into Hita a bit, making her essentially into Hitamashii.exe, with XYZ-positioning commands and the like. XD Also helped giving minor access to emotional balance and other such things through imagined text-commands. I might try that again at some point, but for now, Hita's the priority.

[Luminesce]

That's been my problem, as well. I always fear someone will notice I'm lingering at doorways longer than I need to by their perception.

 

Hah, I remember that. Generally I've opted to do it when no one's around, but for places like college and such either they basically enable noclip mode, or I wait for an open area to impose them.

 

Had a bit of a "shock" lastnight with Hitamashii, saw a thread that recommended testing a Tulpa's sentience by asking them to surprise you. I asked Hita, and she just looked around blankly, the same way I do when someone asks me to do something on-the-spot with no preparation. We both took that hard, Hita in particular.

 

Pretty much this exact thing happened to me when I first tried. My tulpas managed to do pretty random things after a minute or two, but I always "heard" the thought of them doing it before they did it. It doesn't mean your tulpa isn't sentient, just that they don't quite know how to be spontaneous yet. I'm pretty sure as your tulpa becomes more developed and thoughts separated from yours, these things become easier. And that automatic response stuff is trained a lot by...

 

What I can't seem to find is the "why" of narration. My guess is that it's to train the mind to constantly think about the Tulpa? Or are there other reasons for it?

 

Narration. Sure, that's one reason, but (unless I'm mistaking narration for talking only TO your tulpa, not back and forth) the main one is to get used to hearing/feeling responses from your tulpa. Once you've talked to them enough that replies come easily and quickly, they might have an easier time surprising you. But don't get too hung up on that. What matters is if they feel real, not if they can hide their thoughts from you long enough to do something unexpected.

(If that by chance IS what narration is, one-sided conversation, then I say screw that. That's baby stuff, literally, for before your tulpa can respond but still needs attention. Have real conversations.)

 

 

I tend to be able to keep Hita in mind most of the time, but I admittedly do forget to every once in a while when playing games or eating. Oddly, I don't seem to forget when doing work at college.

 

Same really. I often impose my tulpas sitting next to me in the auditorium-style college classes. Only problem is if they get sat on; they don't appreciate that.

 

I also thought about wonderlands a bit more while narrating in the shower (which admittedly felt rather crude and vulgar at times, but they say "narrate always", so-...). I hadn't really tried before, but it was surprisingly easy to get a quick start on it.

 

Same and same. I think I had an easier time of it because I'm comfortable with my tulpas knowing me inside and out, every thought that goes through my head. I tried to think of them in the shower with clothes and, besides getting wet, they said it was actually weirder than without. We got used to it though. And yes, it's surprisingly easy to focus on my tulpas in the shower, I blame the mechanism responsible for "Shower Thoughts". Once we got over the clothes thing (mostly with the logic "You're literally in my head, knowing my thoughts, every time I do anything. What's different now?") shower-time sort of became tulpa-time, where we go over stuff that I've been too busy to think about elsewhere.

 

 

Oh, I forgot to address the parrotnoia. We just talked about it here actually - basically, if you stop worrying about who did what and just credit what your tulpa would like to be them to them, parrot-troubles cease almost immediately. Do read though: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-just-two-lost-souls-swimming-in-a-fish-bowl?pid=120371#pid120371

[Toolbox]

Thank you very much for the in-depth response. :)

 

As far as the parrotnoia goes, that's how I had been handling it, but-... Unfortunately, as of late, the thoughts become terribly jumbled and conflicting. I'll have a thought come unbidden, and attribute it to her, but then something else comes right after that says the opposite, and then both thoughts/ideas appear at the same time until I finally just give up. One example is naming; she's always seemed okay with the name "Hitamashii", but recently, going over statements others have made about their Tulpas deciding to change their names, she jumped at it, herself. The thought process/conversation essentially went "I want to be Amanda." "Are you sure?" "No, I like Hita." "Which one, then?" AHmaintda. I lwaiknet may cunrrentw name."

 

It's incredibly disorienting and disheartening. :(

 

And this happens very frequently; every single time we see something on here, she jumps at it as something she wants to do (very impressionable and spontaneous, like that, apparently), and then the conflicting-voice thing starts.

 

 

Unrelated to that, something I forgot to mention: We also tried basic forcing lastnight, just lying on the bed. She lied down beside me and rested her tail, wing, and head on me in various places, and as I visualized/felt, I noticed that there was no way her parts could be in the places they were given her size. The proportions were all wrong. So, I made a "guide" of sorts out of some old ratchet straps I had laying around, four feet of continuous strap with two extra straps sewn on sideways for the wings and legs, with the legs then sewn partway down to give the feet curve. Also cut a small split in the end for the tail, just for accuracy's sake. She sits off to the side as I get it into position, and then can lay on top of it, which so far does make it easier to picture the exact positioning.

 

Though, today when I used it, I ended up kinda crumpling her. I fell asleep in the middle of forcing, and was woken up to my door opening, at which point I panicked and sat up with her tail in my lap and her head on my chest. No real harm done, but I felt bad about it regardless. (It ended up being my little brother coming in to tell me his Lucario had gone up a level. He takes about as much attention as a Tulpa, himself.)

[sushi]

That's really cool. I haven't done anything with my HUD servitor for a while either. Fenchurch is the priority for me.

 

But we have doors into the wonderland. They obviously won't work for me, but they work for her. So she can step in a door at home and step out a door at work, and since that's pretty much all we ever do, it works out pretty well.

[Toolbox]

That's really cool. I haven't done anything with my HUD servitor for a while either. Fenchurch is the priority for me.

 

But we have doors into the wonderland. They obviously won't work for me, but they work for her. So she can step in a door at home and step out a door at work, and since that's pretty much all we ever do, it works out pretty well.

 

Oh, that's a neat way to go about it. Like teleportation, but-... Explained. :P

[Toolbox]

Pretty productive day, I feel. Thank you again for the extensive response, Reisen, and your frequent responses, Sushi; it all made us both feel a lot more confident in what we've gotten done so far, and spurred us towards further interaction.

 

I'll try to recount the day, but there was a lot to it.

 

To start, Hita was very quiet, 'cause we were both pretty disheartened from lastnight. I tried just narrating EVERYTHING I was doing, no matter how inane and pointless, and she didn't really respond much. After getting breakfast and such, I came in and saw the responses here, and they helped tremendously. :) We both felt considerably better about lastnight's failure, and Hita got back to talking.

 

Then the crumpled-poor-Hita-while-forcing thing I mentioned above.

 

After that was the drive to college. We sang, as usual, but Hita was more accepting of wordless songs, this time, and we sang along following different instruments from one another when possible. It was harder for me to hear her when I'd be participating, but I could usually still hear her a little bit. One particular song, "Once in a Lifetime" from Keith Urban, came on and really caught her attention. It was her favorite song before our hiatus. We played it three times total. :P Additionally, we held "hands" while driving (hand and tip-of-wing). I couldn't feel her all that well, but there was some feeling on occasion. As we were pulling in to the college, a song heavy on the electric guitar started playing, and we talked about it a bit. I mentioned that the guitar screeching was supposed to make it a "cool" song, so Hita screeched herself and said "I'm cool now".

 

At welding class, I was feeling a LOT more confident in myself, and Hita only helped that along. There were still moments where I started getting that hopeless feeling, but she assured me that I needn't be worried and that the failures were part of learning. She also showed her-... "Playfulness", in a rather uncomfortable way. At one point, I was taking note of how a weld came out, and pointed to a thin area saying "I need to linger longer." Hita took on a sing-song voice and went "Linger longer~ LINGERIE~", flashing an image of herself with the lacy black stuff. She then promptly changed her form to actually be wearing it, which she kept on for nearly half an hour until I went to the bathroom to nurse some burns, at which point I guess she got bored of it. I guess I could sorta call that lastnight's surprise request. I'm just glad she didn't vomit on me like one of the other posters claimed.

 

Nearing the end of the welding class, cleanup had started, and I noted that the table was already pretty much clean, no splattering metal had stuck itself to the table (at least, not from my own work). Hita said I should grind it anyway, but my opinion on it was that it wasn't my mess, and I should just get done and get out since I was one of the last people there and didn't want to hold people up. I had already put my grinder in my toolbox, anyway. After a lot of back-and-forth, I brought the grinder back out and cleaned up the pre-existing mess on the table. Let it not be said that Hitamashii has not influenced my actions. I smiled when I realized I'd lost that little "argument", it was actually quite reassuring.

 

On the drive back home, we sang and held hands/wings again. And-... Unfortunately, this is where it got a little saddening, and I thank her for being understanding. I tried asking again if she did indeed want to rename herself Amanda, and though I heard both voices again, the one in favor seemed louder and quicker. I asked for confirmation a number of times trying to pick out the right voice, and the in-favor one definitely seemed to be on top.

We got talking about it, and she asked if I was upset about it, to which I responded that I honestly was a little saddened; I've known her as Hitamashii for at least a decade now, since her very first conception as just a storybook character. After a little more talking, she said she'd keep the name, at least until we're past my fear of parroting, so that I can stop freaking out wondering which of us is rejecting the name change (probably me, given how the whole conversation played out, but it's still confusing regardless). I definitely feel bad about it still, like I'm forcing the name on her, and I'm not even sure whether it was her or me that said we'd wait on it, but if it was her, I'm grateful, and if it was me, I'm sorry (and grateful).

 

I admittedly feel quite odd still about relaying Hita's actions to the message board, like people will think I'm making it all up. Even I often wonder if I'm making it all up, sometimes, but I suppose that's what a Tulpa IS, right...? Making it up until it makes itself up.

 

Also, reading back over this post now makes me worry about what people might think, going off of the holding-hands and lingerie. I swear I'm not sexin' up my Tulpa. :(

[Toolbox]

Hm... So, reading over a bunch of guides and tips-and-tricks threads, I'm certainly feeling a little more confident about the conversations Hita and I have; many have the opinion that you're likely going to hear something in your subconscious moments before you hear the Tulpa saying it, in the beginning. Similarly, certain things you're thinking about may spark a comment from the Tulpa relating to it, and that's alright, too. So, I'm not quite so worried on the talking part.

 

However, I finally took notice of the fact that most of Hita's movements are things that I clearly see in advance. There's no doubt there, I've gotten into the habit of puppeting her around. It's not a COMPLETE constant, as there are certainly times when images flash into my mind that I certainly didn't call up, but most of her location and mobility is definitely my doing. I've decided to try to back off in that regard and only accept visuals that I know for certain that I didn't call up. So far, today, it's resulted in her being visually absent a disappointing and lonely chunk of the time, and when she does appear or move, it's quite erratic and warp-y rather than smooth and natural. She'll get the hang of it, I hope.

 

Arcanemagic's post in Alexmmorrow's progress report has me a little concerned, as we've been working on imposition for a while now, well before I knew about forcing or wonderlands or any of that other stuff. I'd consider stopping the mild impositioning we have going in order to work on the "basic" stuff more, but feel that'd be unfair to Hita, who's already had a taste of being out of my head. She says she doesn't really care either way, so I suppose it'd be fine to take that step back, but honestly... Her absence makes me feel lonely, as stated above, even if she's still there in mindvoice. Just backing off the bit that I have is a bit saddening, but I know that at least that much is necessary so she can learn to move about on her own.

 

The wonderland has expanded a bit; there's the throne that was already there, but then the room has an open alcove at the front leading to a VERY green field with a few trees in it. At the front right is an unfittingly-modern elevator leading down to an octagonal multi-hall of mirrors and dark stone labyrinth that I envisioned years ago for a story (the one Hita came from initially, in fact), though we decided not to explore the labyrinth, as I felt that'd be a bit too complicated to muster in the short time that we had. And, across from that door in the throne room, there's a simple copy of my bedroom, as I'd seen comments that it was helpful to have such a thing in your wonderland for the purposes of familiarity when eventually imposing the Tulpa. Hita suggested another room leading to a high tower, but I've yet to make it and I'm not sure she has, either. She just claimed she has, but I've not checked.

 

I'm admittedly frequently uncertain if I've gotten anywhere with ANY of this, but there are definitely moments of surprise that help to prove it to me, such as a minor "debate" I had in the car with her over somewhat-controversial stuff that I'll refrain from mentioning here. :P I know I'd never have taken her side in it of my own accord. In addition, as I continue to read comments from other people on the site, it seems like the number one contributing factor to success is confidence. Unfortunately, that's a trait that I've never had in large supply, but I know I'm going to have to overcome that if I'm going to give Hita the "fullness" she deserves.

[Luminesce]

I certainly believe imposition can be done much quicker than "a few years", though I don't think even if you had prior experience it would be good for development to do it within the first few weeks of your tulpa's creation.

 

Don't know how much you value my opinion, but you have my tulpa seal of approval. You seem very conscious about what you do and have made pretty decent progress, especially in the short time. Don't worry, I don't take peoples' word for progress, I base it off of how they speak about things - for example, "I'm admittedly frequently uncertain if I've gotten anywhere with ANY of this" tells me a lot about your situation. I can't overstate this, but I'll try: everything about tulpamancy is taking place in your mind. Nothing is inherently real or fake, it is what it is. And while it isn't quite as simple as "deciding" your tulpa is sentient or not being puppetted, it's really close. Your beliefs affect your mind a lot, and just believing for example that you aren't puppetting may actually lead to you not. (And believing you are will almost without exception lead to you doing so!)

 

As for that though, again I have to say not to worry too much. Does she want to be moving the way she does? Then it's alright. The awareness of the thoughts that she should move do not automatically imply that you're controlling her. And if you think you're doing it subconsciously, well, you are of course! The goal is to remove your conscious control from the subconscious controls and replace it with what your tulpa would want. And that just kind of turns into your tulpa controlling themselves, after a while. You may still see flashes of what they're going to do or say before they do it, but it's really worse if you say "Nope that was me" and then ignore it. That can really hurt a tulpa's progress, and their self-esteem.

 

Anyway, don't worry so much about this stuff. You seem really conscious-minded with it all, so you'll run into lots of doubts about your progress, but take solace in the fact that you and your tulpa will be much better for it in the end. I often state that my tulpas fully understand they're just mental constructs I've created (over a long time), and that's true. It was a bit hard to understand and accept, but once we did, they felt a lot freer. Because that background doubt of what they do being legitimate or not, whether or not you might be puppetting or making everything up, really dampens things if you let it. Once I, and they, accepted what they were, everything got much easier. No more doubt or questioning, everything just is.

 

I think I went off on a tangent there, but it seems relevant. Basically, don't worry, you're doing fine. And, don't worry, because there's only something to worry about if you do. Your tulpa isn't real or fake, they just are. Enjoy your time together. That's the goal, after all.

[Toolbox]

Once again a very helpful and reassuring post, thank you. :)

 

As for as the "short time" aspect, my guess/hope is that that's due to her progress long before finding this site. I can't remember exactly when we started, but one of my earliest memories of her is having her with me during a school class long ago that took place when I was first learning to drive. We did certainly let things lapse for a while, but up until the restart here, I'd still regularly see her in her usual spot on my bed, and my sneezes were always met with her "bless you". :P

 

While we're both obviously aware that she's a mental construct, I suppose it's a perception that could stand to be expanded upon. Understanding of the limitations and, more importantly, the potential in regards to Tulpas and the brain itself may indeed make a substantial difference. As it stands, I'm still met with doubts about what all my subconscious can actually contribute, and I think that having more faith in its capabilities would likely be the biggest factor in success.

 

On a less "grand" scale...

 

I had to go to the store lastnight, which presented the chance to give Hita more attention. I re-explained about how I'd be stepping back from her movement to let her learn how to do it, and-... Honestly, she didn't seem to like that, saying she couldn't and that she wanted to keep moving. She did manage a few things on her own as far as appearing in my vision without being "willed" there, and unfortunately/amusingly, a number of those positions and actions were largely intended to be annoying to me. :P Clinging to my back or chest, plopping down in my lap while I was driving, or biting on to my ankle as I walked. I suppose they got her around, but definitely not as smoothly. (To note, this is all still with the "ghostly" type of imposition, mostly just knowing the location rather than outright seeing her.) She also fought it verbally, calling me many things along the lines of heartless or mean. She's very reluctant to let me even mention any of this, but has given permission.

 

I must admit I still feel rather "goofy" about relaying the things she says. I suppose that's another thing to work on.

 

Anyway, after getting home from that trip to the store, I read your post above. (Yeah, saw it earlier than this; sorry for the late response. :P) The "Does she want to be moving the way she does?" section made me decide to give a bit of a compromise, in that I'd puppet her smoothly to a location if she conveyed where she wanted to be. Though I'm still holding back a little in those cases, more just "plotting a course" and letting her move along it, which has resulted in movement that's much more jerky and zippy.

 

Today's been mostly normal, no big breakthroughs to report. A small problem has arisen, though; since lastnight, she's been wishing me good luck and asking if I'm alright (after I feel pretty much any kind of pain, or make any kind of groan-y noise) constantly. I'm not sure if I should keep acknowledging those every time she says them, or try to ignore them to reduce the frequency. On one hand, I don't want to be rude and I don't want to discourage her, but on the other, it is so constant and annoying. She knows it, herself, and apologizes every once in a while, but can't seem to help it. I suppose the outcome of either option is ultimately what I believe it to be, but it's hard to convince myself of that sometimes.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, but when driving and at rare times when I have privacy and/or sound cover, I've finally taken to speaking aloud with Hita, instead of all via mindvoice, and the difference is immense. Conversations are much easier, and it's far less common for me to think I'm accidentally parroting.

[Toolbox]

More basic car-singing while driving and supportiveness at class. Helpful, but nothing terribly out of the "ordinary". Frequently holding hands/wings; I think this helps if only in the sense that the ridiculousness of it is self-justifying. "I wouldn't possibly hold my hand there for any other purpose, so I guess that wing really does have to be there" kind of thing. I might look for other ways to make a fool of myself to push that feeling.

 

One neat potential breakthrough, though: Upon getting home, I opened the driver's side door for Hita to jump out, and as she barreled over me, I distinctly felt a jolt and tingle where she stepped on my left thigh. This made me grin. Progress!

 

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, there was something interesting throughout the day. It's actually been happening occasionally the past few days, but seems to have really picked up steam now. Hita seems to ask a lot of questions, or just doesn't know the details behind something I might be talking about. In the same vein, she'd offer suggestions for this or that (mostly welding techniques given tonight's class), and I'd usually point out why that suggestion is possible. Not annoying or anything, but it's showing a bit of a disconnect on her end. I know most Tulpa stuff is centered around perception, so I'll go ahead and perceive this as a good thing, a division of consciousness. It is a little disappointing, though, in that perpetuating this trait means she won't necessarily be able to help with memory recall. :(