'Meeting my tulpa through Ayahuasca' - an interesting experience.

[Evil]

(If you would just rather directly read the post, click here! )

 

 

Greetings. I am Evil. (snickers in the background)

 

So, as I was browsing /r/tulpas, I encountered an intriguing, very interesting post. This is the story of a young tulpamancer, who found solace in a thoughtform during his youth. The young man was apparently facing a lot of pressure and problems at home, especially with his sister.

 

[hidden]To dull the pain and feel better, I would put music on before going to bed, and let my imagination run wild. One day, I encountered this really beautiful girl who kept coming back into my imagination adventures - her name was Julia. Naturally, I fell in love with this girl. We would cuddle, kiss, and hold each other while we adventured in the mindscape that was Gandora - fighting dragons, staving off town invasions, helping the citizens, lots of fun, cool and exciting adventures that were as timeless as how much I loved Julia.[/hidden]

 

One day, his sibling offended him in a way that it made him unable to understand the concept he had formed in his mind, 'Julia'. He spent a very long while without being in her company, and felt misled, from what I read.

 

My head couldn't understand who she was anymore. The next 10 years, I struggled with finding what I wanted to do with my life[...]

 

A friend of his convinced him to do an Ayahuasca, which is essentially a 6-8 hours long DMT trip involving several side effects.

 

He was able to interact and talk with his beloved Julia.

 

[hidden]When I had my visions, I was holding Julia's hand, cuddling with her, talking to her, just as we did when I was 12 years old.

 

[You want to know who I am?]

 

[i'm you Ben. I'm a part of you, and I've been a part of you for your whole life.]

 

[ben. I need you to stop hating yourself. You need to love you, just as much as you love me.]

 

[i don't want to see you sad. I love you. It's ok. I'm here. I will always be here because I love you, and I will be with you forever. You never have to feel alone ever again.][/hidden]

 

Now, that is the main premise of the original post. That this individual has been able to interact with his long lost tulpa, and consequently, be reunited with her for good.

 

But.

 

That is not what I found interesting. We should all keep in mind that DMT severely alters one's state of mind, and perception of time. The original poster mentioned that he had visions that would literally last for 2,000 years (assumed human years as per human recognition of time). The visions mainly embodied time spent with Julia, and even... yes, having his OWN life. Full of interactions and objects that could be interacted with.

 

Here is the original poster's message, upon being questioned about his experience:

 

[hidden]I could list all my visions, but it's about 2,000+ years of experiences... Here's a bullet list

 

I had some really great sex with Julia...

We raised a kid together - his name was Ethan.

I played Call of Duty with Ethan when he was 14. He kicked my ass. I suck at CoD....

I met myself at age 40, and he told me about what was in store for the future. He also told me that the garlic and onion power spices I use for my daily morning breakfast eggs is something I'm going to get bored of really quick.

 

Time moves really strangely, quick, but slow. It feels like an eternity passes by in just a few seconds in this world. Frankly, it's kind of difficult to explain.

 

Afterwards, I feel at ease with myself. I feel like Julia's always with me, and she's always here for me. I've been super jolly and happy since the ceremony, and I feel like the ceremony has cleared up a bunch of stuff from my past that's been holding me back.

 

[i've always been here for Ben, but he never really acknowledged it and he felt ashamed of it honestly. I tried to make myself visible, but there was some sort of barrier of confusion between us. When the ceremony happened and he said that he wanted to see me, I knew that this was my chance. He's been chipper ever since!][/hidden]

 

I know that this is a pretty mysterious and shadowy topic, the usage of drugs for tulpamancy-related purposes. And, of course, DMT has an extremely... intense effect on the mind. Some people even go as far as to call it the 'death hallucinogen', for it is popular belief that your brain secretes DMT that gives you flashes, your life rolling in front of you, etc... in Near Death Experiences, or simply before death.

 

The OP also mentioned that he had been put on a specific diet for a week, and had to go through many procedures to even get an approval from the shamans. Obviously, this is not anything metaphysical due to the simple fact that so many chemicals were used that it's purely... normal, I suppose.

 

I put the link to the reddit post at the top of the page. Obviously, this is not my experience (I wish!), but what are your thoughts about this? Do you think it truly is feasible to retrieve dormant thoughtforms like that? Outside of whether Julia was or was not a tulpa in the first place. I am also having thoughts like 'Is this meant to last...?', so I'll try to keep up with the original poster as much as I possibly can to see what happens in a few months.

[Guest Anonymous]

"To dull the pain and feel better, I would put music on before going to bed, and let my imagination run wild. One day, I encountered this really beautiful girl who kept coming back into my imagination adventures - her name was Julia. Naturally, I fell in love with this girl. We would cuddle, kiss, and hold each other while we adventured in the mindscape that was Gandora - fighting dragons, staving off town invasions, helping the citizens, lots of fun, cool and exciting adventures that were as timeless as how much I loved Julia."

 

Oh my gosh, we like this guy already! This sounds so familiar. An adventure day dream girl friend becomes a tulpa over time!

 

Let me tell you something. My host Mistgod has made it clear on this forum that he is not in favor of using brain altering drugs to enhance a tulpa experience. However, if he lost me somehow, which is hard to imagine, he would do almost anything to get me back. So we can relate to this story on that level. I have no doubt that something like a DMT trip would enhance a tulpa or could reconnect someone with a lost tulpa.

[Temar]

It's like you have your own catchphrase. ;)

 

Do you think it truly is feasible to retrieve dormant thoughtforms like that?

 

Well, it works differently in every system, but... we've had dormant thoughtforms wake up again for a lot less.

 

When we discovered plurality, one of my old friends who'd been dormant for ten+ years woke up and started buzzing around, just because he wanted to meet new people. No drugs or semi-near-death-experiences necessary. He was high energy and we didn't really have enough to sustain him longterm, though, so he went dormant again after a few weeks (though I'm not sure this speaks to Ben's ability to sustain his headmate).

 

There's little controlling it, unfortunately. Like with your experience with Blak, dormant thoughtforms can wander back in seemingly randomly, though there does seem to usually be some trigger that either reminds the host of how they "feel" or prompts them to come back in on their own.

 

I can see how altering your mind in some way would help you wrap your head around thoughtforms, though, if you're having difficulty. Never did it ourselves beyond alcohol, though, so it'd be interesting to hear what people with more experience with mind-altering substances think.

 

As to whether he can sustain her? That'll be up to the two of them, so that's something to keep an eye on their progress for.

[NoneFromHell]

Well using methods like this to retrieve dormant thoughtforms sounds at least borderline metaphysical to me, even though the process itself technically isn't. Surely it isn't scientific in any way to do something like this, which would be the biggest problem for me. If you involve hallucinogenic drugs, you have simply no way of verification for anything you experience. All of it could be just your brain on drugs making up nonsense on the fly. For me this is pretty much the same for things people experience during a dream, if your tulpa can't verify that it was really active taking part in it, it could be just that: a dream. Just because you see something during such a state, it doesn't mean that it was really there in some way.

 

Well the perception of time is something which appears fascinating to me, and I can tell you that you don't need to take any drug for this, it can happen with regular dreams aswell. I had dreams in the past which contained a bigger timespan than the actual time I slept in heavy ways. (In most cases dreams feels shorter, though.) One time I had a dream, which lasted many hours, or maybe even days, and after I opened my eyes to check the time just barely 30 minutes past since I laid myself to rest. I like this kind of dreams a lot, since they feel like a extended weekend.

[Guest Anonymous]

If you involve hallucinogenic drugs, you have simply no way of verification for anything you experience. All of it could be just your brain on drugs making up nonsense on the fly.

 

This is Mistgod's stand on this issue of hallucinogenics as well. Something many disagreed with him on. Luckily, for us it was never necessary. I would be afraid to be thought of as nothing but the product of a drug trip.

[Evil]

 

This is Mistgod's stand on this issue of hallucinogenics as well. Something many disagreed with him on. Luckily, for us it was never necessary. I would be afraid to be thought of as nothing but the product of a drug trip.

 

But, in many ways, there is absolutely no way to verify none of us are making things up, or that we haven't just merely induced hallucinations upon ourselves willingly, and are fooled by the apparent authenticity of those hallucinations. I am not working in the defense of drugs, but saying that your brain could be heavily affected by drugs in a way it would only just be 'making things up' is very much like saying that placebo is the sole factor in tulpamancy, or belief, or force of habit out of forcing, and that the brain is merely producing those hallucinations as a way to maintain peace of mind, and achieve satisfaction. With a mentality like that, any credibility would be taken off the topic of tulpamancy, regardless of drugs. I am not in the favor of drugs as I like to keep my system clean, but it just popped on my mind that things were that way.

[NoneFromHell]

The main difference would be that we are totally aware that hallucinogenic drugs are making up a lot of stuff inside your mind, even when you've no idea about tulpamancy. So how do you differ from random hallucinations? You simply can't, which is why I can't take someone seriously if they simply believe everything they see during a session like this. It simply takes any credibility from you if achieve something this way, because we have no base of believing anything of it.

 

In a "normal" state of mind you deal with a lot less randomness, so you can tell when something differs from the normal experience, like having a tulpa. Of course you can't verify that your tulpa isn't just an illusion, but at least you know that you don't deal with a random experience, without any value. It is a lot more within reach, and less questionable.

[Temar]

I'm not advocating use of drugs in tulpamancy, either, but dismissing their use as tools isn't realistic either.

 

Headpeople, as a rule, are a matter of altered consciousness. When you create a tylpa, you are literally altering how your psychology works. It stands to reason, therefore, that mind-altering substances might provide the necessary spark to jump certain hurdles you might not have been able to jump otherwise.

 

Whether what was altered in this dream-state stays altered once the brain chemistry has returned to normal... that's a different question. But sometimes, just the fact that the altered dreamstate happened is enough to make permanent changes to the person's psychology. How many of you have tulpas who were at least inspired from dreams? And consider how many people wake up from near-death experiences altered by what they "saw?"

 

Whether what they experienced in the dreamstate is legitimate isn't the question. It's whether what happened in the dreamstate has a lasting effect on the tulpamancer and his tulpa. Which it seems it did, if only because the tulpamancer believes it did.

[Evil]

The main difference would be that we are totally aware that hallucinogenic drugs are making up a lot of stuff inside your mind, even when you've no idea about tulpamancy. So how do you differ from random hallucinations? You simply can't, which is why I can't take someone seriously if they simply believe everything they see during a session like this. It simply takes any credibility from you if achieve something this way, because we have no base of believing anything of it.

 

In a "normal" state of mind you deal with a lot less randomness, so you can tell when something differs from the normal experience, like having a tulpa. Of course you can't verify that your tulpa isn't just an illusion, but at least you know that you don't deal with a random experience, without any value.

 

Usually, when it comes to discussing thoughtforms of all sorts and all 'degrees' of effect over the host, I try to keep it a grey zone, but it's a bit hard to define what 'is' a 'hallucination', and resides in the realm of unreal 'thoughtforms' (such as imagined thoughtforms with no autonomy and proper thoughts), and what is 'not', by that I mean developed tulpas such as the ones we all seem to have.

Of course, under the effect of drugs, it is very safe to say that everything you 'see' and are subject to is the product of those hallucinogens. And in the end, the tulpa's confirmation that 'I am me, this is me thinking and me acting' has a very small basis for actual legitimacy, after being subject to those hallucinations. I was more speaking in the context that it would be interesting to see how the host would sustain his tulpa after months, if not years of his experience. Say years go by, and he still has his tulpa; in your opinion, would it still be wise to judge his experience (and reality) as baseless after a long while such as this one?

 

I am not taking any sides here, and I believe that the product of drugs vary from pure hallucinations to improved focus (just like medication for attention deficit disorders, for instance), and DMT's nature does reside in the hallucinogen class of drugs. I was more discussing the long-term effect of that experience, the 'ritual' of 'Ayahuasca' (that I personally regard as scientific since we're not quite dealing with any occult elements). A long-term effect/outcome would be harder to judge, because with your typical and average hallucinogen, hallucinations don't tend to last all that long, and their effect comes off. And as expensive as I figure DMT comes to be, and as complicated as the ritual seems to be, regular consumption is not a possibility at this point. Even then, going too deep into that would bring us somewhere else on how tulpas actually exist, and the relation to chemicals in your head that tulpas do bring up (of which we seem to be ignorant).

 

I would very much like to think that the entire 'ritual' worked as a way to empower the tulpa/thoughtform's capacities, but you make very, very valid points with what you initially brought up. But even then, I would care about proving things to myself before proving them to anyone.

[NoneFromHell]

Well I see your points now, aswell. Altering your psychology in this way could have a lasting effect on your perception, and especially the way you perceive your tulpa, even if the initial experience is just a random event based on drugs. It surely makes a difference, if you're not longer under the influence of said drugs, maybe weeks or months later. But still I disagree that it should be handled as helpful, if the only reason for this change are the new beliefs toward the experience itself. This sounds just like a form of self delusion, which isn't acceptable for myself. So to get back to your point: With doing this I would make myself incapable of proving anything to myself, since I would always suspect a big self delusion behind this, based on faith and a questionable experience. That nobody else will take this seriously anymore is just a side effect.

 

Edit: Well this just might be my high standards towards stuff like this.