Assistance needed

[KarlYoshimura]

@Linkzelda: I can barely understand anything you wrote.

 

Are you sure there would always be a "nuance" or cognizant difference in how she would process external phenomenae, if given any chance? If this would be the case, wouldn't all tulpas carry some iteration of said nuance?

 

I can't help how she and her host perceive switching and possession. I'm not sure what "image streaming" is - instead of using this technique to prepare for possession et cetera, would it be possible to use image-streaming as a means to further develop or "normalise" her sensory perception in relation to her sentience?

[Linkzelda]

You know, I’ll actually take that. I thought the pew pew might be obvious for neurons firing. But, before I answer the next set of questions, let me make a condensed version over what I stated. I do apologize for the prior post; I’m really shit at this.

 

That’s because there’s a yearning to have the imagination regress substantially at the convenience of emulating something real to her. The whole money doesn’t grow from trees' date=' and because possession/switching seems to be a turn off for them, it’s truly an impasse because they’re stripping themselves away from having an intense experience of having to put things into context with this reality.[/quote']

 

What I was referring to with the imagination is that it’s naturally going to be an experience where the mind uses whatever faculties that gives off that instantaneous, or seemingly quick emulation of waking life in some way. So trying to tone down the imagination to cater for the desire for a tulpa to feel less in control of everything, the imagination isn’t something that you have to moderate just to get that “feeling” that there’s something real going on.

 

The money not growing from trees analogy was referring how much they want the experience to be more real. Because if everything is given to them, they may feel there’s a loss of novelty in existing, and interacting with mental experiences. And if there’s a lack of novelty in that regard, there may be a lack of novelty in applying things in waking life; this is probably why them being turned off by possession/switching sets themselves up for a dead-end, and thus the implication that it’s a depressive situation for you, the tulpa, and the host whom they interact with.

 

I highly doubt that it can be so easy to just tell one’s imagination to flick off the insta-spamming of things coming at their beck and call. Our brains are so used to conceptualizing' date=' anticipating, and such to prepare for this reality. So I can only imagine that inwardly, all of those cognitive processes will naturally go pew pew pew pew pew pew. And even if they took great efforts to power down the convenience of the imagination, there’s going to be some nuance that they’re going to pin-point; that extra tick of nuance that throws it off completely for them that will land them back at that dead-end for a genuine experience of mortality, progressiveness instead of instantaneous, and such with life.[/quote']

 

What I’m implying here is that it’s not so easy to flick off the level of efficiency and speed our brain has to exhibit these imagination that seems spontaneous, and yet so orderly in the sense of having things structured picture-perfect. It’s like trying to internally make your mind consistent when it’s naturally going to be doing all sorts of mental faculties with or without your consent.

 

If it were me' date=' I would utilize that imagination that goes pew pew pewing 4 days as a learning experience to prepare for this reality in context of possession and switching. I did it before with image streaming where I described emulations of real life as a tool for them to start gathering their own “feelness” to something, or wanting to believe they naturally have qualia related to their presumed sentience. And seeing how all gestures and formalities of enduring life seems to be an understood thing with them (the person and tulpa in question; this reflect the rest of this post so no one thinks I'm referring to me and my own), there’s no need to give a speech therapy, I guess.[/quote']

 

I’m basically stating how image streaming helped me here with emulating real life scenarios. Things came by picture-perfect to cater to the desire for them to have some kind of learning experience to enhance. But instead of my tulpas, or me feeling weirded out as to why our imagination makes things so ideal for us, we used that to our advantage to prepare for real life scenarios. The more anticipation that can be developed, the more padding we have in case something goes haywire somehow.

 

Image streaming in a nutshell:

- Describe stuff in your mind with little to no bias along with as little interruption as possible. The lack of comprehension for the convenience of speed, and to have one’s brain, in theory (since I have no facts whatsoever on this) connect regions that weren’t associated with each other.

- Then, after a session is over, you debrief the experience (typed, recorded), to have those “feelings” you have (indirect ones that we can’t put into words sometimes), and doing it to where those feelings can be mirrored in what we would do with switching and possession, for example.

 

The only thing I can point out is that while they have some degree of intelligence and awareness to speculate about the sheer power the mind has to make things come at their beck and call' date=' that reality that they’re trying to get the extra ticks in to satisfy their worry will make the imagination look like Disney World…If there isn’t novelty in wanting to put things into context with this reality via possession, switching, and such, then it’s going to be difficult finding novelty in that imagination that can prepare one for it; where one cannot even refer to their own cognition and mind as their home—a true, existential horror, IMO.[/quote']

 

Basically, if one can’t feel at home with their own mind; that same mind that has mental faculties that makes them prepared to anticipate, and such with this life, it can become a true horror. A type of existential horror because one is trying to negate those conveniences our mind has instead of using them to enrich the experiences. If a tulpa has the idea that real life isn’t really something necessary for them, and yet they’re going to the ends of the earth to have an emulation of it inwardly, that dead-end is going to have them break apart somehow.

 

would it be possible to use image-streaming as a means to further develop or "normalise" her sensory perception in relation to her sentience?

 

Think of it this way, in theory of course, since I have no empirical backing to this. By image streaming, you’re actually trying to throw off that censor where things are picture perfect, static, and too predictable. Almost to the point to where that instantaneous nature of our imagination is just too great for us to assume a tulpa, or a host is actively controlling that. It would just be unconscious, mental faculties at play that can still have the instant nature, but instead of a tulpa feeling they’re the controller of the mind, they would have a different attitude in it being a imaginative playground.

 

Because they’re, IMO, applying the context wrong, this is why the dead-end is set up. The context I’m referring to is that they believe the imagination should not be so instantaneous, and cater to their every whim. Some people are willing to get nose bleeds just to have that convenience that the tulpa in question is undermining. There has to be some deeper reason why she doesn’t want to practice things in context of this reality via possession, proxying, switching, etc., and prefers to embrace mental experiences while still being demystified as to why things just come at her every whim.

 

The point I’m suggesting is that she can’t possibly think she’s coordinating everything in their imagination. Sure, maybe her willpower is influencing that, but that’s the thing. It’s influencing, but not controlling in the sense of “Okay, in 5 seconds, I’m going to see this pot at this location with no wear and tear whatsoever…make it so!”

 

That’s equivalent to a person thinking unconscious parroting is an actual probability.

 

 

I hope this made sense, and I’m sorry. I’m horrible at trying to be hip with the pew pew pewing.

[Tewi]

Well I understood everything you wrote Linkzelda, but I suppose that doesn't mean much when you weren't writing for me.

 

 

We basically have the fullest possible extent of that "wonderland too obedient to be of value" thing. Our wonderland doesn't so much as move if we aren't there, and even when we are things are rather still. The day and night cycles and water flows, that's about it. There's not the slightest hint of autonomy to it, and so it's about the least satisfying thing I could imagine having to live in. It's more of a gathering place for events, despite our "home" being there.

 

Two things. One, the only reason our wonderland even exists, is that it's a medium for us to interact with our host in. The fact that we're in the wonderland together is what makes it worth being in. Maybe that, as much or little as it happens, isn't enough for her though.

 

Two, we put a little thought into how to make the wonderland more 'lifelike', and for that we came up with NPCs so to speak. People that would live in the wonderland, under its own rules and not their own. Specifically, we thought of the Scarlet Devil Mansion from Touhou and its inhabitants (aside from Flandre) living across a lake from Lucilyn's swamp-forest. The idea is that it would provide some level of interaction that would both stay fresh compared to the environment on its own and also not necessarily be under our direct control. Along the same lines of which you make a tulpa, you can easily make autonomous wonderland dwellers that nonetheless aren't as aware of the body or outer reality as the tulpa. Ours would be, but that takes some interesting ways of thinking to make work. Maybe better to keep it secret. Regardless, that's my suggestion. Add people to the wonderland that live in the wonderland. Whether their tulpa decides to be a god or simply live with them, I believe the interaction and lack of control (important to note they would not be actively controlling the 'NPC's) could make the wonderland livable.

 

The other things she wants seem to be a dead end. We ourselves stopped thinking about what we'd want to do if we had our own lives and bodies, because we don't, and because we won't. There's no reason to think about things that cannot be. And if you do while thus ignoring what can be, you're no doubt to have a miserable life.

 

 

(We personally never went through with the idea, because we just couldn't make the wonderland expansive enough to be worth living in. I'd be content to simply live in a forest doing nothing in specific... but the forest needs to be alive. Though here I am, switched controlling the body, and that's why we didn't bother. We're rather active in other ways.)

[KarlYoshimura]

@Linkzelda: thank you. Your explanations make more sense now. I'm curious as to the function of image-streaming myself - it's almost like stream-of-conscious writing, wherein one prints exactly what goes through the mind during an entry. If these exercises can really connect neurons together or expand upon brain activity, it would be amazing.

 

I'm not the tulpa in question, yet it appears to us that she doesn't want "everything" to cater to her whims, if at all. If I'm not mistaken, it's the dynamics and unpredictability of the next moment which makes real-life seem so appealing and lush, as opposed to the terminal boredom she experiences, knowing exactly what will come next because either she or the host thinks of it. For her, "every day is exactly the same".

 

As for not wanting to "embrace" new experiences and undergo possession and switching, it might have to do with the host's physical health and stress. I can't go into detail, but if something were to go wrong, it would not bode well for either of them. Since the host's well-being is valued rather highly by her, I would think she isn't trying to find a way to defeat or compromise his mental operations, but...well, cope with not being able to live in a way similar to her host.

 

@Tewi: when we ran the idea of having another tulpa in the wonderland past her, she plainly told us that she didn't want "a tulpa buddy". I think the expansive N.P.C. village/community has some merit, yet I'm unsure if she would react similarly to the additional tulpa suggestion or just think of it as nothing more than another purpose-less simulacra.

 

I certainly can't take a leaf from your book regarding a lack of thinking about being dis-embodied. There are simply desires that come with living that are much too powerful, too...irrational, too meaningful, for her to just ignore. If one isn't able to do something like confess their love to another person, or pursue life-goals through meaningful study or work, things that exist far outside of the scope of the host-mind, how can she not think about it?

 

Granted, there are tulpas that study and find love outside of their hosts, amongst other fulfilling activities. Yet the prospect of the host going up to someone else and saying "hey, there's a person in my head who likes you a lot" or "sup man? My tup's here for the genetic engineering courses. Sign her up motherfucker!" would inevitably end in social-suicide for the host, a fact they are both painfully aware of. Even if one were relatively tactful and successful in such endeavours, would such relationships and routines even work, given their preferences and situation?