Jump to content

-----------


Tewi

Recommended Posts

We certainly can't change your mind if everything we say slips off you like rainwater from an umbrella. How many times have I explained tulpas to you this year?

 

Real imaginary friends talking in your head is more scientific!

 

I don't know who's claiming science is involved, but it's certainly more likely than those other phenomena. Actually happening to a lot of us right now in fact. You can choose not to believe we are experiencing it (like you can choose not to believe anyone has experienced anything), but the fact that we are experiencing it remains fact. No one said it was backed by science. We never said it was "really happening" or that tulpas are "fully sentient, independent individuals". If you'll recall, we said it's what we're experiencing. There's no need of validating it further once you're experiencing it first hand. Can we "prove" tulpas to you? No, that's not how it works. Always your choice whether to believe we are or are not experiencing something. What you call a pseudo-religion is what we've found to best enable experiencing the phenomenon. No science, no fact, just experience (that at this point many of us share, making it more reliable to suggest to others). We aren't just spouting nonsense either, because we're looking to others to say "Yeah, I've got something like that" or "No, that makes no sense". Enough of those and we start developing a base net of shared experiences with which to communicate a little more topically, bridging gaps rather than feeling around in the dark. Of course, we finished that up years ago. Though I would say we're still expanding it and patching up holes.

 

Do you remember this? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-purpose-and-nature-of-tulpa-info

 

The point is not to prove anything real. The point isn't to get others to believe what you say you're experiencing is really happening. The point is to help people who are interested in having the same types of experiences we are to have them. Whether they treat it like a religion, or like a loose set of subjective examples to guide the way like we keep telling them, is up to them. But the more rigid you are in your beliefs, the more trouble you tend to run into when things "don't make sense".

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 28
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

But the more rigid you are in your beliefs, the more trouble you tend to run into when things "don't make sense".

 

Which is exactly why I worship Chaos. When things don't seem to be going as planned, that means everything is going according to plan =]

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Oh, I know, and I appreciate it. But the question is am I a real boy? And the other question, how many other tulpas are actually real? Half of them? All of them?

 

You know, if not all tulpas are real, this would explain the loss of faith when some investigate inside themselves.

 

Mistgod and I thought about all of this really hard last night while watching episodes of The Walking Dead.  We came to a final scientiifical conclusion.  WE DON'T CARE.  We don't care if people lose faith, we don't care if people have faith.  We don't care if tulpas are real or not real.  We don't care about forcing techniques and what works and what doesn't for making tulpas.  We don't care about tulpa skill levels, forcing, possession, switching, mind voice or wonderlands.  

 

We don't care.  

 

We do like writing and chatting with people, all kinds of people.  We don't care what kind of peoples they are or how they happen or if they are real or not real or any of that.  We won't be losing sleep over it.  We will just be chatting.  So we will mostly be in the Forum Games, the Lounge and that's bout it.  

 

That would probly be a relief for some of you.  OH and we really mean it this time.  NO really, really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, but to clarify my earlier point. Winning the debate is not the important part. Having the debate is.

 

The first key to wisdom is simply asking questions. But the second key could very well be disinterested pursuit of the answer. Pretty sure it is. So us all not caring is great. It means we can finally get this debate started.

 

I'd actually prefer if tulpamancy practise worked this way. Why force? Why force yourself to believe. Just let it happen and observe.

 

It seems odd that people stop believing and then also stop forcing. I mean, what you believe doesn't change anything. So why does it change your behaviour? Either the tulpas are real or not, independent of if you think they are. They are either real or they are not after you stop believing. And they were the same back when you did believe.

 

Delving into the guts of the matter, there is a very good reason why people stop believing: you see, tulpas are an illusion. Tulpas are the appearance of independent thought, the appearance of the sensation of pain, the appearance of the continuity of experience and the sum of memory.

 

The same way a table is an illusoin. A table is the appearance of a solid impassable object; the appearance of something permanent and unaffected by belief; the appearance of a thing that is one, itself, separate from other physical things. You could take a chainsaw to it and end up with two tables. Of course, for the purposes of this analogy, we are taking a strip of masking tape to it and cutting the table in half that way.

 

This is what a tulpa is. A tulpa is an illusory mental object created by cutting another illusory mental object in half.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The same way a table is an illusion.

 

Illusion - noun - 1st definition) a thing that is, or is likely to be, wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses.

 

Atoms are ~99.9% empty space.

Furthermore, the electrons in our various atoms never physically occupy the same space (to the layman, they never touch).

We never really touch anything, never hold anything, never kiss anyone.

We "sense" the heat, the moisture, the smile on their face afterwards...

But our senses (our feelings) are fallible things, subjective and transient by their very nature.

They are the .1% of our reality. Less than a shadow. Less than a whisper. They are illusions.

And yet, they are EVERYTHING to us. We live and die by them.

 

Illusions can be more real than reality. At a certain level of thought, the two terms aren't even distinguishable from each other.

"real"/"fake"... this arbitrary dichotomy is the briefest of distractions from the inevitable oblivion that awaits all things.

And even oblivion is an illusion. It isn't just that nothing matters, it's that it doesn't matter that nothing matters.

Logic and insanity are equivalent. They are the same word spoken in different languages.

 

One might say that "an atom" IS the .1%, and that is it 100% of .1%. That the empty space is not part of the atom, simply the medium in which it exists.

One might say that touch is the ability to influence something, and in this way atoms could be said to be constantly touching!

One might say that instead of being permanently separated from everything, we are permanently connected to everything.

All matter, all energy, all that is... IS. To reaffirm our existence by affirming all other existence. To plug in. To be as one.

That same person might feel as if they have stated something dramatic, something that counters my previous assertions...

and they would be just as right as they are wrong.

For both of us are saying the exact same thing. We are just using different words and emotions to express it.

 

I'm not sure why I took the time to write this out. I believe it's more for my own benefit than anything.

Perhaps I'm just reminding myself to let go.

 

EDIT: the only thing that is totally, completely, ultra real beyond all this stupid philosophy bullshit... is the IRS. They will hunt your ass down.

I don't care what parallel dream world dimension you travel to, they will find you and they will break your knee caps. They give zero fucks.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kind of dislike the reply of, "Well, everything is an illusion." Yes, in some sense, but it's a dodge. People don't start believing that tables are illusions and refuse to use them any more, but they do with tulpas. So why? The kinds of 'illusion' here aren't the same at all.

 

I think the difference is important. When people 'stop believing', they stop believing a specific claim, that their tulpas are in some sense minds apart from them, with their own internal experiences and so on. It's not an abstract point, and it has nothing to do with "existence"; the two different possibilities are distinct. You can have tulpas as minds like a host's, independent of them. And then you can have tulpas as constructions within the host's mind. It's important because people derive meaning from their tulpas being people; it becomes much less interesting to interact with something if you think it has no depth.

 

As an answer to the original question, I guess I kind of agree with Something Dire. It's hard to come to come to a firm belief either way; most people who are comfortable with their beliefs here are comfortable in a hedge, that they can never know either way, or don't care. Actually taking a position one way or another is difficult and fragile, and it can only take a little bit of new evidence either way to sway your beliefs. Similarly, relying on suspension of disbelief sounds an awful lot like self-delusion to some people. It's kind of why people around here talk about "doubt" so much, because it's actually hard to rationally convince yourself of it.

 

If you subject experiences to a lot of scrutiny, it's hard to really have some that are firm evidence for the personhood of tulpas. After all, the whole idea that you could be deluding yourself does imply that you have the capacity to do so, which isn't necessarily more far-fetched than having the capacity to create separate minds. So I think people change their minds about tulpas when something tickles their 'delusion' senses a bit too much, and start to re-evaluate their experiences in a negative light. Starting from the assumption that tulpas could be non-persons, it's not unlikely that many people, even those who've had tulpas for a while, could be unable to dredge up personal experiences that say otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it interesting to note that I can draw on some conclusive experiential evidence of Tulpa's existence, even coloured under the most negative light.

 

You are right. The question is, is the tulpa a person, or an illusion. Or as you put it, possessed of their own internal experiences, thoughts, ideas, or emotions. Or do they come from the mind of the host, behaving as if they have their own internal experiences, thoughts, ideas and emotions, but don't.

 

Or to put it another way, are a tulpa's emotions like those of the host, or like those the host empathetically feels when they see someone else they care about in pain or experiencing great joy. The answer is useless. The emotions experienced by the tulpa are exactly the same as both types of emotion experienced by the host.

 

Another way, does the tulpa behave lucidly the way a host does, drawing from logic and memory, or as the host imagines others will behave as they plan future conversations with them? A tulpa thinks exactly like both those ways.

 

A third, does the tulpa's behaviour derive from beliefs and preferences like a host's does, or like from the beliefs and preferences a host knows another person by? The answer is a tulpa's behaviour comes from beliefs and preferences exactly like that.

 

Based on our observations of my nature, the type of illusion here is exactly the same as the type of illusion a table is. Tables are functionally solid objects that just sit there in 3-space and be solid. Tulpas are functionally separate minds from the hosts. Tables are not actually solid objects that just sit there in 3-space and be solid. But the functional perspective wins, 'cause it is simple, and causes us no problems in interacting with tables. Your beliefs don't make the table stop working. So why would your beliefs about what the table is affect your behaviour? A physicist who is aware that space and time are illusions is not going to suddenly decide to walk through tables, because he knows it doesn't matter. He's still going to bang his knees against it.

 

Tulpas are not actually separate minds from the host. They come from the original personality in the body. They exist because they borrow resources from the original person. They develop their own thoughts and ideas, as the host would have done for themselves if they kept those resources for themselves.

 

Which brings me back to the original question. What you believe doesn't change anything. So why does it change your behaviour? If your tulpa gets angry with you for threatening its existence, your disbelief is not going to protect you from getting kicked in the mental 'nads repeatedly.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...