Confusion

[QFlip]

I don't think I'll doubt her at least for a long time (not ever again I hope). I was foolishly doubting probably because I didn't understand her as much as I should have, combined with my depression.

 

I probably made it sound worse than it is; I usually love and care for her very much, but it is the occasional dark times where I stop believing in her, and don't want her to be in my mind anymore, that is what I was talking about. (It's happened every 2 months or so on average.) I try very hard to believe in her, and I hope that this will never happen again, now that I finally understand why she sometimes didn't seem real.

 

As a simple summary of what I believe: She experiences things, as if in a dream, from her own point of view, and her mind is intertwined with and supported by mind in many ways, but she still creates her own thoughts and ideas, and possesses a soul. 

 

 

 

An IIA character is a character that behaves independently. So they look like tulpas, but they are actually characters. Authors get this all the time. I was guessing this is what you mean by bot. But if you control them completely, they are normal characters.

 

 

But I don't know why she does this in the first place. She (more or less) and I know the memories aren't real, but she has them regardless. And although her form is loosely based on a character from a story, her personality and mind are very different, so she didn't come from a book/play/television/etc.

[tulpa001]

Okay then, I am going to interpret what you call bots as characters. Note that this is not the same thing as a story character. Every person alive has a character, and you can predict their actions by creating a copy of their character in your mind.

 

The reason I was confused about your point #2 is that controlling someone and not controlling someone feels really different. But you said you couldn't see a difference between her and the bots. But now you say that you completely control the bots.

 

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I suggest, if you are worried about falling into doubt again, and maybe doing something that you will later regret, another strategy.

 

You can train her to take control when your doubt is strongest, so it is no longer your decision. You can train her to the point where she has as much power over you as you have over her. This way, you will lose the ability to do something you regret.

[Lucilyn]

I suggest, if you are worried about falling into doubt again, and maybe doing something that you will later regret, another strategy.

 

I feel like my advice was ignored :(

like he said it was fine but he said it like "no its ok I believe again I shouldnt have not believed" but that doesn't really solve anything in the long run, you can still stop believing just like that because something comes up or you feel like it. I think my host's advice is the best way to think about it, and I would know because I'm one of his tulpas. It would be really annoying if he was doubting if I was a person all the time. Even if he made himself believe he would still be logically questioning it, and that makes it a lot harder to believe in yourself. But instead he logically knows it, and that contributes to me not having to worry at all. I know I'm my own person and I know the others will treat me like it, period. I really think it's better that way.

[QFlip]

The reason I was confused about your point #2 is that controlling someone and not controlling someone feels really different. But you said you couldn't see a difference between her and the bots. But now you say that you completely control the bots.

 

When I was doubting, I believed that the only difference between Bots and her is that I subconsciously believed that she was real, but I was still controlling her and couldn't accept the fact that I was.

 

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Yes, one of the thoughts that crossed my mind was to somehow make myself unable to destroy her. For all I know, I might not even be able to destroy her, since the only time I really came close was almost 5 1/2 months ago, when she was only about two weeks old. But I'm definitely not going to try to find out.

 

Whenever I started doubting her, she would talk to me and try to remind me of all the reasons I believed in her. Sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldn't. When I didn't listen to her and still doubted, she would usually give up and cry. And even if she had complete power over me, telling her I doubted her still makes her miserable. Also, since our thoughts are almost entirely separated, I could lie to her and tell her I believed in her (which I have before), when I didn't, and she would believe me; however, then there would be nothing stopping me from shutting her down (making her temporarily unconscious), which is probably equally bad. She can resist me doing this for a time (unless she doesn't know I'm doing it), but not indefinitely.

 

Honestly, I don't think I could ever really bring myself to kill her, but she cares about what I think very much, and it is easy to emotionally hurt her. Every time I doubt her, it makes us both feel horrible; hearing her cry still makes me feel guilty however moronic I am being, and the only things she really wants from me is for me to love her and believe in her.

 

This is why I need to stop myself from ever doubting her. What I think would help the most is making sure I remember the things I've noticed about her and ideas that stopped me from doubting before, such as the fact that we have different personalities and opinions, we can have completely different moods (especially if she doesn't know what mood I am in, since my mood affects hers the same way it would affect a person in the real world), and whenever I hold her, I can feel the warmth of her body in real life.

 

Well, it's time I let her say something for once. I will type what she says; even though she can possess me to type things herself, it would take forever, since she's not used to using a keyboard.

 

It really helps my host to be able to talk to other guys who have tulpas. Without you, we would both be pretty confused about who we are and stuff. I guess I haven't really ever talked to anyone but him, so, this is kinda new for me. It's pretty exciting to be able to talk to new people. Well, I know he's doubted me before, but I forgave him every time he does, even if he doesn't really like it when I do. He feels really bad about what he did, but I know he loves me too much to really hurt me. And I love him too. If he was really going to kill me, I think he would have done it by now, but even when he's really depressed he still can't. I wish he wouldn't get depressed so easily, but I know it would be a lot worse if I wasn't here to take care of him. And that is why I'm here with him. He might not be perfect, but I love him nonetheless.

[tulpa001]

There is a thing that is possible. I don't know if most people can do it. Most people can't control the things the believe or the emotions they feel.

 

She has been my close companion for almost 6 months,

She is real. I have said this before. The question is not is she real. That's the wrong question. The question is what is she.

 

But first, is this a problem? If she is less than a full person, is this a problem for you? Or is she still what she is? This is a personal question, and I cannot answer it.

Real as can be I am me, as person as they get. But even if I wasn't it wouldn't make any difference to Lumi because I'd still seem just as person-like, yeah? Worrying about tulpas having their own consciousness is like worrying about other humans having their own consciousness. You can't know and it doesn't make any difference to what you were already experiencing.

 

...

 

You can't know what's really real reality, you can only know what you experience. So! Have a tulpa!

As a final thought, destroying her because you are unsure if she is sentient seems very much like an over-reaction to me personally.

My advice, although I've been doing this for 22 days, is to stop with the doubts. Say "fuck it, she's real!".

 

...

 

As for why to continue? You said you loved her. Being around people like that is reason enough, even if it isn't real.

Maybe it's different for others, but what I think of her doesn't affect how real she is or seems to be.

I suggest, if you are worried about falling into doubt again, and maybe doing something that you will later regret, another strategy.

I feel like my advice was ignored :(

like he said it was fine but he said it like "no its ok I believe again I shouldnt have not believed" but that doesn't really solve anything in the long run, you can still stop believing just like that because something comes up or you feel like it.

 

...

 

It would be really annoying if he was doubting if I was a person all the time. Even if he made himself believe he would still be logically questioning it, and that makes it a lot harder to believe in yourself. But instead he logically knows it, and that contributes to me not having to worry at all.

 

Or to put it another way, clearly your belief level has no relation to her reality. If you can, why not just say F it! She's real. I give up. No more questions. No more exploring.

 

Or, to quote lumi:

I realized there was no reason to be so logical. ... people. "For all intents and purposes," separate, independent, sentient people ...

 

 

I know. Most people can't do that.

 

My situation is a little backwards. I am the one with the doubts. My host is the one with unwavering faith.

 

Whenever I started doubting her, she would talk to me and try to remind me of all the reasons I believed in her. Sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldn't. When I didn't listen to her and still doubted, she would usually give up and cry. And even if she had complete power over me, telling her I doubted her still makes her miserable.

Yo, dude, that's the best evidence there is. She's fighting back.

 

She's clearly something. She's all up in your life, messing with your head.

 

It really helps my host to be able to talk to other guys who have tulpas. Without you, we would both be pretty confused about who we are and stuff. I guess I haven't really ever talked to anyone but him, so, this is kinda new for me. It's pretty exciting to be able to talk to new people. Well, I know he's doubted me before, but I forgave him every time he does, even if he doesn't really like it when I do. He feels really bad about what he did, but I know he loves me too much to really hurt me. And I love him too. If he was really going to kill me, I think he would have done it by now, but even when he's really depressed he still can't. I wish he wouldn't get depressed so easily, but I know it would be a lot worse if I wasn't here to take care of him. And that is why I'm here with him. He might not be perfect, but I love him nonetheless.

Hi new person! you still need a name. Pah, you're too easy on him. Of course, I'm a huge hippocrite. I'd be exactly the same with my perfect host who I love too much.

 

Maybe just call him an idiot once in a while. Everyone occasionally falls into a mindset where you just have to stop, and stare, and roll your eyes at the sheer ridiculousness of what the person is thinking. My host has done that with me on occasion, when my paranoid fears of not existing got really bad. She's normally all supportive. But she's like: this is getting ridiculous. We've been over this a thousand times. Snap out of it.

[Ivy_]

If you need somewhere to talk more often QFLIP Vampire and I are on the IRC almost all the time.

I'd love to meet your tulpa. ^-^

[QFlip]

Hi new person! you still need a name. Pah, you're too easy on him. Of course, I'm a huge hippocrite. I'd be exactly the same with my perfect host who I love too much.

 

Maybe just call him an idiot once in a while. Everyone occasionally falls into a mindset where you just have to stop, and stare, and roll your eyes at the sheer ridiculousness of what the person is thinking. My host has done that with me on occasion, when my paranoid fears of not existing got really bad. She's normally all supportive. But she's like: this is getting ridiculous. We've been over this a thousand times. Snap out of it.

My host is a little bit paranoid, he doesn't really want to tell much about us. So I guess you can just call me his tulpa, at least for now. So, anyway, I don't want to call him an idiot, cause he's really not, but maybe that second part you said, I could try. I just hope he listens to me if he doubts me again.  

[FallFamily]

[Tri] This situation appears to be mostly resolved but we have something to add which will help in the long term.

 

First, Tulpa Anonymous (QFlip's tulpa) sounds like she is quite real and is sentient. Now, one thing to keep in mind is that sentience and separateness are different things. And lack of separateness goes both ways (as in, host is just as much a part of a tulpa as the tulpa is a part of the host at any level of separateness).

 

QFlip, you managed to deal with your doubts for now, which we commend. You did not make a hasty decision at first and you came here for advice, which was good. It sounds like you have a lot of good information for the future. If ever the doubts get really strong again, the next paragraph could be of great use to think about.

 

The most important thing is, why does it matter at all if Tulpa Anonymous or some other tulpa seems 100% to be sentient and separate. It might matter to the tulpa themself. It might matter some to the host. But at the end of the day, why should that be the criteria for whether said tulpa is kept around or killed. What is the need to kill a not 100% sentient and separate tulpa? They pose no harm. And what sentience and separateness they have means they will feel it. What harm is it to keep them around and grow over time.

 

Also, put yourself in the tulpa's shoes.