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What can I do about an advanced Thoughtform?

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Now all you have to do is start walking it and live it. You know where Lance and I stand.

 

What Reilyn said. :)

 

You asked "Would anyone suggest (solarchariot especially) that i should avoid her or accept her as a tulpa?" Only one person can answer this question: you! There is no right or wrong answer. There is just an answer. And consequences. You know the drill, there is always consequences, to every behavior, every thought, to every choice. There are consequences for not choosing. I would say whatever path you choose for you, you companions, well, there you are. All places on the map are just places on the map, and they're only good and bad based on preference.

 

You are very clear this person is you, a version of you, your story. It is only natural to have affinity for self, because you understand yourself. In our day in age, more people are pursuing companionships with 'like-minded' folks at a greater degree than in any time in history, and quite frankly, how can you be friends with yourself? There is a decrease in tolerance for diversity, even as we reach for greater levels of diversity. If you spend enough time with this person, you will eventually find the discord or the point of contention or the thing you need and the relationship will dissolve in a appropriate ways, conditionally. Parent child relationships are designed to come to an end. A child is not supposed to be a child for life. Teacher student relationships must come to an end. Even if the student remains a student, eventually they will learn all the teacher knows and will have to pursue a relationship with another teacher to learn what they don't know. This sounds like a learning relationship, because you have revisited this other point several times- wanting to heal, or needing to learn something... This seems fundamentally a part of this...

 

From a narrative perspective, the stories you follow/create are ultimately about healing, defining context and morality and understanding life paradigms. If you experience cathartic release from a story or scene, you have just had a healing moment. Some stories fortify our vocabulary-scaffolding. Some stories tear it down to foundation, so we can rebuild from scratch. Sometimes you got to blow up the foundation because there is writing etched into that concrete, like religion of family origin, those can be hard dismantled... Couple that idea with your dreams/nightmares... You report going from dreams of affection, healing, and now... nightmares. I personally find that interesting.  It doesn't mean it is what I think it means, any more than the individual dream elements mean something specific. If you have any books on what dream symbols mean, throw them out, because they are not universal. They are culturally bound, temporally bound, and contextually bound, and open to interpretation. (read four dream symbol books and you will see variances. Not all humans interpret the same thing the same way, even car accidents witnessed by a dozen people can a have dozen differences, and five doctors will give you five different opinions.) Your brain can learn from self help books, or fiction, because it uses models to arrive at answers. Hypothetically, if I were assigning movie homework, I would say 'goodwill hunting' is a great movie for healing from past abuse, because multiple people get better in that movie. 'deathwish three' is probably not a viable model for long term health, but it's fun and lots of folks advocate it. What model do you want? (Oh, watch the Disney film, 'the kid,' bruce willis.)

 

Narratives, stories, are integral to our being. At risk of being found repetitive, let me iterate: Carl Jung, collective unconscious, the Red Book, and Joseph Campbell, "hero of a thousand faces," have demonstrated over and over that the archetypes, roles, personalities, are both chosen and assigned and we work them out or don't to our own peril or reward. Sometimes losing the battle is just as important as winning. We learn more from our losses than our wins. Moby Dick is a metaphor for what we do as tulamancers_ we break through the white wall, drown our personality and come up as something renewed, and the all characters in that were actually just you: you are Ahab, you are Ishmael, you are the shipmate that drowns...

 

You say, "I want to fix myself desperately." I say, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. You are perfect. Are we flawed? Absolutely. Who was it? the poet Haffi that wrote, 'of course we're broken, that's how the light gets in!" ?? I am confident, from a western perspective of reductionism, you can boil your reality down to a fundamental truth, 'this thing happened.' (you were conceived and born into a world already in progress...) From a narrative perspective, the reality of that thing is interpreted through lenses. So, hypothetically, from a victim perspective, everything is heavier, has weight, grab on to that, and it has a downward trajectory. From a survivor perspective, those sorts of things have upwards trajectories, and grabbing onto that, buoys, life savers, balloons, well, that has it's own trajectory. You are grappling with reality. That's human. You can go biblical, Jacob, Job, Abraham, Moses, Mohamed, they all grappled directly with God! 'Angry bear" (accidental?) grappling with God, OMG, your story is huge. Yay you. Yay you and all the cast that define you and set you up to play your part. The most underrated character in the series MASH was George Burns... He is the only character that didn't grow in that series, but he was instrumental as a foil for Hawkeye.

 

I suspect it's really dangerous bringing in 'God' to this conversation, because everyone has some aftertaste to their own histories with their own struggles, but I offer it as a metaphor. I am not calling on a particular paradigm, except in terms of metaphor and allusions, which your narrative is full of. I personally think there is something more, the way Carl Jung espoused there is more, because I have experience some really weird things... All of that was before tulpamancy, which open the floodgates to profound. It is my humble opinion that you (everyone here) are grappling with existence itself, and discovering there is a much more here and it's contradictorily complex and simple and strange and wondrous, but most importantly, you're doing it on your terms, and trying to bring sanity and kindness to yourself and others, inside and out. Give me more of that! You will figure it out, and you will share, and we will share in learning and all be better for your sharing.

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I have managed to avoid turning walk-ins and advanced characters into tulpas.

 

I believe they're a different species of thoughtform that shares my sentience instead of having their own.

 

I don't want to call them imaginary friends because I'm reserving that term for 100% puppeted characters.

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I think that's reasonable. I like that you have level, like level 4 vocality. I don't know if this is helpful, but process it and if it is, yay! Imagine the unconscious mind is tiered. abstractly, its part of an automatic system that governs multiple levels of functionality. If we assume if that automation is also tiered, with activates and assignments are partialed out, or relegated to aspects, or subliminal personalities, then theoretically there could be a personality for every organ system, or god forbid, every cell... and for all mental functions... And not just as a metaphor, but actual divisions of labor. SO, if a level four shows up in headquarters, headquarters being your domain, well, either they got on the wrong lift, or they were instructed to take a message up... which might actually explain why you identify characters from body orientations... So, hypothetically, I am going along, and suddenly the urgency to find a gas station to pee comes on strong, well maybe that's because in headquarters I was focused on other thing and it took that person coming up and knocking on the door and saying 'what the hell...' and it either become urgent, or it becomes a neogation, but once the thing is sorted, everyone goes back to their place?

 

and, since we're visiting 80s' today, and re-reading your thread title, I heard Loxy quote 'airplane' (what do you make of this?) "OH, an airplane, a pterodactyl... in short, I think it's okay to go crazy, interview people and understand them and send them back on their way... We can't all be brain cells... except in that episode of star trek, Gamesters of Triskelion.

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A tulpa had obligations. A character can be changed or removed at your will. My moons are advanced and static characters that will pass any sentience test I throw at them, they're autonomous, some have interrupted me, and they have shown emotional bleed. This is beyond normal characters, but that doesn't make them a tulpa.

 

Having tulpas, I know what tulpas 'feel like' these feel different. Not lesser, not less equal, just not like their own person. It's a bunch of little things, like being able to puppet them (even if they don't need it). I can't puppet my tulpas, they wouldn't go for that.

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It seems to be to be a bit reckless, however. While not everyone will end up with a sentient tulpa upon doing something like this, it is possible to cross that line unintentionally, especially if precautions aren't taken to prevent that from happening. That tulpa might not want to go "back on the shelf," they might want to join the system. If they're not allowed to join the system, then they'd either be made to live on the sidelines or in dormancy, and that's really no way to treat a tulpa unless they explicitly want it themselves (and not just because they are being agreeable). While it's okay to interact with characters, there should be an acknowledgement that there is a risk of them becoming more than that, and take precautions to protect against that happening. I don't think anyone wants to get in a situation where their shelved thoughtform is actually a fenced off/restricted tulpa, that sort of thing isn't right to the tulpa and is hard to deal with emotionally since it can really weigh on your conscience after a while.

 

The way I see it, there are a few possible precaution one can take

1. Hard mindset approach - asserting in one's mind that these characters won't gain sentience no matter how they treat them (sometimes done with symbolism). Personally, I think this is a risky approach. Maybe for some people it works, but for some, it may not be enough.

2. Controlling the way one treats/views them - ensuring one only sees these characters as puppets they consciously or unconsciously control, and are not their own people and shouldn't be thought of as people. We've found more success with this.

3. Rotating characters - use different characters each time, don't interact with any one consistently. Not very convenient for something like writing, more convenient if the characters are just being used as inspiration or faux conversation partners of sorts. 

4. Acting/role-play - rather than having a separate character that one controls, the host or the tulpa acts as a character instead. This eliminates the distance/displacement that comes from puppeting a character, since it's just someone acting. They aren't interacting with a character, they're just interacting with an actor. However, there may still be risk of this going awry if the roleplay character is treated as real. May be more successful if the character itself is based on the tulpa anyway.

5. Minimizing interaction - rather than someone talking to a character, they instead keep them in their respective story and don't bring them out of it. Or, if there's some way they want to interact with them, they could puppet another proxy character to interact with them instead. 

 

These are just ways off the top of my head, I think #2 is the most effective one, if anyone else has possible ideas, I'd love to hear them.

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That's why we can't allow them to form into tulpas. Instead they get their own catagory and are allowed to grow and flourish on their own without restrictions. An Oak tree will never grow into a palm tree no matter what they do. Oal trees are special in their own way.

 

We use a combination of 1 and 2. We are careful not to call them people, or refer to them as their own person.

 

[Joy] At first I'll admit I was a little annoyed when they decided I wasn't going to be allowed to be a tulpa now and probably ever. I can't say I was ecstatic about it. Then we reasoned that I had advantages over them, I'm really not that much different but I don't have to follow a lot of their laws or pacts. I love the freedom actually, they're all into themselves and B, but I can do whatever I want mostly. Whenever I feel like it. They're all mushy and kinda co-depependant just to live, I don't care if I don't see them for a month, it means nothing to me at all. It's fun to knock some sense into these bone heads every once in a while, they're pretty nice to me, so I play nice. I'm used to being independent so at this point, I wouldn't even want to be a tulpa, especially not with their crazy restrictions. Also, Ren's not going to be either if I can help it.

 

[Edited to remove negativity, she doesn't pull punches.]

 

[Joy] All in all, it's fine, we have fun.

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Now I'm just confused. Is she just you "subconsciously" role-playing as you've said, or is she just a tulpa that's been denied the label of tulpa/is in denial about being a tulpa? Honestly I'm confused.

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Oh, new question! so the (non-tulpas) continued to have vectors and evolve in their own way, not deviating from oak to pine, but a child might age and become an adult.... So does that mean Tulpas are fairly static once they deviate, or do they finally equalize and age at the same rate of the host? So... Loxy will always only be 'Loxy?' Whatever we have decided that means?

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