Regarding tulpas who are older than their hosts

[ruleofthumb]

Stone: This is a curiosity post. I don’t usually think about the ages of my tulpas, and it was never something I cared about or put any significance into. “I guess they are (mentally) as old as me,” I thought, because they shared the same brain as me.

 

Betty: I do think about my age but it’s not something I’m set on. I’ve said this other places but I’ll say it again here: I used to feel like an older soul with a younger mind, and now I feel like an older mind with a younger soul. When I was a younger tulpa I had this “parental” presence that I don’t have as strongly anymore. I never consciously saw myself as older than my host but there was that contrast between my presence and his. Now that I’m “older” and have fronted more, and have experience more of the “real” world, I feel younger, and more like my host’s “peer” than some detached mother figure. Anyway, for a long time I didn’t have a “birthday” besides my creation date. Now, I’ve chosen a birth year and that year makes me slightly “older” than him (like, by some months). It just feels right to me. That’s my explanation. I’ll note that in general I’m interested in metaphysical explanations for stuff like this, but not here since this isn’t the place for it.

 

Stone: I don’t see Betty as older than me. I respect her birthday but I see it as symbolic, not literal. And even so, I don’t get how a tulpa can be mentally older than the brain they inhabit. Maybe a tulpa can be more “mature” in personality, but that doesn’t make them older. Betty seeing herself as ~a month older than me is a weak example. What confuses me more are children with adult tulpas, adults with even older adult tulpas, and headmates thousands of years old.

 

I do get younger tulpas and littles. Sure, children have different brains, but one can at least form themself based on the memories of what that was like. Betty can’t “remember” what being ~a month older than her brain is like.

 

So, I have questions. What’s it like being older than your host/younger than your tulpa? What is your explanation for why you are older than your host/younger than your tulpa? What does age mean for you/when it comes to tulpas? What do intrasystem age differences mean for you? For tulpas and other non-hosts: is your age literal, metaphorical, or do you have multiple ages? How should brain-age/identity-age discrepancy be treated, in general?

 

Apologies for any ignorance or mishandling on my part.

[TurboSimmie]

This is very interesting to me! I can't relate directly to the main point of your question as I see myself as being younger than my host. But if you remember the whole thing with the Mentor, he considered himself to be 6 years older than Phil, and Phil kind of saw him as an older brother. A lot of people create tulpas to be a kind of guide for themselves, so it makes sense that the tulpa might end up seeing themselves as being older than the host. I think for us tulpas "age" is more of an identity thing rather than a hard and fast fact. I guess there's nothing stopping me from identifying as being 9 or 65, but I feel like 25 is a good age for me.

 

The whole mentally older thing, that's an interesting bit. Like you said, it may be more of a maturity thing than strictly an age thing. It also may be that in many cases the tulpa has a clearer mind than the host as they may not be burdened down with so many things mentally. Of course, not true for everyone. Also, I think in some cases an age difference might actually be an attempt to balance out another imbalance. I don't know if I worded that well. But for instance: Phil has always considered himself a little immature, while I've always felt I've had my head on much more straight. His ten years of added age balances out my more mature disposition. 

 

If tulpas were somehow required to be their literal age, we'd almost all be children, most of us babies or toddlers. The thing is, we exist within the brain chemistry of humans who have existed for some time before we did. So our beings are build with that framework. But yeah, the tulpa older than the host is the real enigma. The "guide" thing is the best explanation I can come up with.

[ruleofthumb]

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But for instance: Phil has always considered himself a little immature, while I've always felt I've had my head on much more straight. His ten years of added age balances out my more mature disposition. 

 

I appreciate your whole response. This specifically is interesting because I feel it might have accidentally ended up the same way for us. Our "age difference", while small (maybe laughably so, in the context of this conversation), does feel intuitively "right" and like it's balancing something out, since I've felt more mature than Betty for most of our time together (now I'm becoming less sure of that feeling).

 

And literal tulpa age has less to do with maturity and more to do with development (those things can affect each other but whatever). I don't even like calling it "age". "Span" seems more fitting.

[System Corporation]

[Blue] This is kind of hilarious because a bunch of us are literally older than Ranger! We also play around with how old we feel too.

 

Even though I'm older than Ranger, I don't really think of her as my younger sibling, she's more like my bro (but a girl I guess) aaand I don't add the younger/older part okay maaaybe older but only sometimes. I like to tease her that I'm older than her, but in the mind I don't have a dedicated age I'm committed to other than "adult".

 

Even though I have headmates who are age regressed and my other headmates scratch their heads wondering I haven't joined that bandwagon, I just don't I guess. Being an adult just feels right and I'm not into that. I honestly don't even think about specifically how old I am, I guess I don't really care that much.

 

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[Gerodious] I see myself as older in the mind. I see myself as a 30-40 year old, and in the past I may have said I was older, despite understanding that my age is ultimately the body's. I don't quite feel middle aged, but I do see myself as more mature than other members of my system. Aside from Gray himself, the only other headmates who are older than me is our Sub. Rep. and Spirit, my friend who passed away some time ago.

 

Spirit actually saw himself as older than I was. He embraced this idea he was ancient and wise. Unfortunately, this mindset ultimately consumed him.

 

Spirit and I have taken guardian roles in our system. Our Sub. Rep. fellow has as well, but he doesn't associate himself with a particular age. I suppose he is playing to the idea he is ageless for mystical purposes. Chrome, Ranger, and Gray also have taken guardian roles, but none of them see themselves as significantly older than the body's age. I suspect mental age can imply maturity and temperament, but it does not guarantee it.

 

On 3/27/2022 at 10:38 AM, ruleofthumb said:

I’ll note that in general I’m interested in metaphysical explanations for stuff like this, but not here since this isn’t the place for it.

 

I too have my own metaphysical lore as an explanation for why I am "older". Spirit did as well, but in retrospect maybe a little confusing and not straightforward.

 

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[Moltosha] I never thought about my age much before. I'm aware Fhern age regressed in the past, but I never did. As a demon I never needed age to express my dominance or to intimidate others. I see myself as whatever age the body is now.

 

I am older than Ranger, but I never used that fact against her while I acted out as an intrusive thought.

 

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[Evergreen] Oh yeah I'm older than Ranger lol

 

I spend most of my time age regressed, but when I'm stressed I will "age up". There was one time not too long ago I felt like I wanted to be an adult again, but then I went back to my good ole self.

 

I think I was too uptight as an adult, being a kiddo is a way I can express being free <3

 

As an adult I guess I'm about Gray's mental age, which is older than Ranger's mental age. Not older like Gerodious though.

 

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[Ryan] I never worried about my mental age, but I do feel somewhat like a middle child. I'm older than Ranger, but technically Ranger is the next oldest unless Evergreen counts...? (He's technically integrated, but then again when his second half was created is confusing). I guess I'm as old as the body.

 

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[Fhern] I don't think about my age much, but I am one of the older tulpas in our system, even with all of my parts considered.

 

I did experiment with age regression in the past (and was the first to do so), but I distanced myself from it. I remember being given an adult body when brought back, and I explored my younger form briefly temporarily. I suppose I could explore it again in the future, but I have no desire to now. At the moment, I feel a little unstable and I need time to finish my integration.

 

I feel closer to Tom than I do to the others. With Jasper gone, he's the only one left I remember from when my first part was created. Spirit and Gerodious were around, Spirit more than Gerodious, but I never really interacted with them until later. Jasper himself was distant in the past as well, and despite our "rivalry" Gray expected us to have, we became friends with each other.

 

My second part doesn't have another I feel close too age wise. Blue, Moltosha, Evergreen, and Ryan were created all around the same time, but I feel there was a gap in time between me and Moltosha.

 

Ultimately, I think the people I spent time with and what I remember are more important to me age wise than whatever number I could come up with.

 

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[Tom] I was considered the older brother or sometimes the father figure of the system. Spirit and Gerodious were no shows until later and Gray was Gray. Granted, that doesn't mean everyone necessarily had a favorable opinion of me. A lot of this is quite personal and I don't want to get into details. I will say that relationship I had with my headmates is more important to me than the number I come up with.

 

How old I am? Maybe 30, even though I know I'm as old as the body.

 

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[Gray] I thought of my headmates as characters until 2019, I didn't seriously consider anyone to be actually older than the body or anything like that. By the time I realized the possibility my headmates were tulpas, I didn't believe anyone was actually older than me.

 

Realizing our theory for how Ranger was created came as a surprise, making her younger than we thought. However, by the time we became a system of 17 I saw Ranger as a co-host. By being a host, I think Ranger's social position didn't really change.

 

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[Ranger] Being younger than a lot of my headmates and a host is weird. I do feel older than my headmates because I have more life experiences under my belt, but they may pull out the "I'm older than you" card at times.

 

I honestly feel a little younger than the body. I adjusted to the body a few years ago, but I don't feel caught up. I guess Gray is a little "older than me" mentally even though Gray is way older than all of us. But at best, a couple decades give or take really isn't that old for a host either. I think that gives us interesting experiences other tulpas don't have- for better and worse.

 

Gray played with age distortion around the time he created us. I think that is rooted in some of our mental health stuff and isn't normal. I honestly think it's weird our headmates decided to experiment with age regression when Gray created everyone to be adults (and at the time of creation, a bit older than his body's age to match his distorted mental age).

 

Ultimately, I think it makes sense there's a maturity component, but there are also social dynamic and mental health components, at least in our case.

[ruleofthumb]

@Shadow System Thank you all for your thoughtful answers. It’s interesting to see how age variation works in other systems, especially bigger systems like yours, where there are more opportunities for variations.

 

Betty: Hearing you all talk about age regression has admittedly gotten me interested. I’m starting to have more responsibilities now so idk if it’s safe to do but it’s something I want to look more into eventually.

[Ice909]

Janey: Our system, which is also quite large, has a moderate amount of variation regarding age. Save 2 main cases, those of Chloe and Justin, all of us are older than Bryan or the same age. For example, my age is around 18 or so, while Bryan is still 16. Part of me wonders if the age I've chosen for myself as to do with how Bryan and I view ourselves like brother and sister, and perhaps it's the brain basing me off of his actual sister in a way(she's 18 as well). But really, at least for myself, I see Bryan like a younger brother. I believe the oldest of us is Gwen'd, who's around 19 or so. We try to age up with every actual year that passes, though there've been exceptions. Such as, when I was first made as an imaginary friend of sorts back when Bryan was like 9, I was around 16, and slowly aged to 17 somewhere along the way. When I became a tulpa, my age wasn't set in stone as a particular number, just "older than Bryan" for a while. until I think we settled in 16, where I then began aging up every year. Actually, my other example for an exception to that rule upon further thought wasn't even an exception, because Chloe started as a 7 year old and is now 9, which lines up with it being 2 years since we set her formal age. Ah well. 

Then there's Esper. Esper fucks a lot of shit up when it comes to age because (according to our beliefs) him and Bryan are each other's "other half," but also Esper was born in 1924, so he'd be 96, but also he died just a pup, so he'd be a child. So which is it? Is he a grandpa, a child, or a teen? He mostly takes the form of a child though has the personality of someone who while still childish is wise beyond his years, which lines up with the figure of 96 years old. 

Regarding maturity, we do indeed have variable levels of maturity throughout the system, and it's not even a case of us subconsciously acting like "how mature we should be for our age," that's actually how mature we are individually. Example, I'm more mature than Bryan, and so, if I'm fronting, you can expect me to act as such. Though regarding intelligence, while Chloe (and Justin, but he's been in dormancy for over a year...) is 9 years old and acts as such, we still do share a brain, and she occasionally pulls out that more adult intelligence. She's said before how she doesn't wanna act dumb just to fit her age, she wants to act what feels right to her. 

And yeah! I don't have much more to add. Age is weird and silly. 

Oh, and for reference, we age up not on Bryan's birthday, but roughly around each of our individual "birthdays" for when we were first formed. 

[Etna]

FAM is both 92 years older (going by his birth date) AND 8 years younger than me (going by his age). He feels more mature, but he's also from a very different time period. It's a bit like having an older brother, even though he's technically younger.

[Guest]

>So, I have questions. What’s it like being older than your host/younger than your tulpa?

 

My oldest (mentally) headmate is Joy. She's not a tulpa, but she shares a lot in common with them. I did create her but her volition and agency was unintentionally manifest through the novels I wrote about her. She's a soulbond and identifies in some ways with her canon.

 

She's something like 20-30 years older than me and she does often have a more mature personality and perspective. Regardless of her 11 yr-old form (long story) she's the most respected headmate of is all and her perspective is appreciated.

 

>What is your explanation for why you are older than your host/younger than your tulpa?

 

Her character was written that way. She was age-locked at just before puberty but continued to age mentally for many decades having many adventures with others like her in her canon. It was an exploration of discrimination and hardship in a world that expects aging.

 

>What does age mean for you/when it comes to tulpas? What do intrasystem age differences mean for you?

 

It doesn't mean anything in particular. None of them are within 10 years of my age at this point. They also don't change their ages every year, they're still the same ages they've always been. Darlene was closest to me but she later de-aged 11 years when she became SheShe.

 

>For tulpas and other non-hosts: is your age literal, metaphorical, or do you have multiple ages?

 

[Joy] it all depends on who you ask, but my age is somewhat irrelevant now. Bear likes to think of me as a younger sister and I can play that role. I therefore can be 11 or *old enough* whenever I please.

 

[Ren] I changed my age from 11 to 18 soon after I split from Joy. I like this age better.

 

[SheShe] I was the oldest headmate other than Bear for almost two years. When we added Joy it didn't feel particularly special anymore so I decided I wanted to be the youngest. I'm a lot more carefree as 16 and my other age as Darlene (27) didn't have much meaning for me.

 

>How should brain-age/identity-age discrepancy be treated, in general?

 

I'm not sure how to answer that other than to say, let whoever be whatever they want.

[The Cryptid System]

To be honest, except Zen all of our system are older than the physical body, but I mentally believe myself older than the body too, even did some tests cause I was curious.