What is the difference between visualization and imposition?

[nnsin]

Title, I really can't get the hang of visualization. Not even sure what I'm supposed to be seeing, as these exercises (Rasznir's number visualization guide) seem WAY too difficult to be pulling off.

 

I understand visualization as seeing something on the back of your eyelids (after 2 days of practice, I can see faint color swirls if I'm really focused. Nowhere near seeing fully colored canvases and bold numbers) and imposition as basically hallucinating- seeing something and imagining it as real with your eyes open.

 

I'm unsure on how to even visualize, I feel dense for not understanding how to "imagine a wonderland" or "visualize a tulpa". I've never really been good with words, this all just seems confusing to me.

[TurboSimmie]

Visualization is just imagining with your mind's eye but not actually seeing something. Imposition is a lot more complex and involves basically hacking your senses to literally see/hear/feel etc something that isn't literally there. My host and I have never really tried imposition in the four years we've been doing tulpamancy, the furthest we've gotten is some very minor touch and smell imposition, but we do a lot of visualization. Whoever is switched in imagines the other nearby, whether walking alongside, sitting in the passenger's seat in the car, lying next to in bed etc. And sometimes during the quiet moments we imagine our wonderland, which for us is mainly just our wonderland house, which involves just imagine what it's like to be inside it vividly as possible. It's similar to the feeling you get when you are immersed in a very good book. It works better sometimes than others--we've gotten our wonderland to feel more real than whatever real world space we were in, and it's just like being immersed in a book or a story!

 

As far as imposition like I said I haven't really done it so I can't really help you there. If you want to learn there are a number of resources here, I'd recommend Ringgggg's Imposition topic from the Progress Reports thread.

[nnsin]

6 minutes ago, TurboSimmie said:

Visualization is just imagining with your mind's eye but not actually seeing something. Imposition is a lot more complex and involves basically hacking your senses to literally see/hear/feel etc something that isn't literally there. My host and I have never really tried imposition in the four years we've been doing tulpamancy, the furthest we've gotten is some very minor touch and smell imposition, but we do a lot of visualization. Whoever is switched in imagines the other nearby, whether walking alongside, sitting in the passenger's seat in the car, lying next to in bed etc. And sometimes during the quiet moments we imagine our wonderland, which for us is mainly just our wonderland house, which involves just imagine what it's like to be inside it vividly as possible. It's similar to the feeling you get when you are immersed in a very good book. It works better sometimes than others--we've gotten our wonderland to feel more real than whatever real world space we were in, and it's just like being immersed in a book or a story!

 

As far as imposition like I said I haven't really done it so I can't really help you there. If you want to learn there are a number of resources here, I'd recommend Ringgggg's Imposition topic from the Progress Reports thread.

I appreciate your answer and now I understand the difference between the two, the thing I don't get is "Visualization is just imagining with your mind's eye but not actually seeing something". I must be dense or something, reading that is so unintuitive. I really can't understand that process. Is it just imagining something in your head? If I were to, say, think of an image of an apple, but not see it on the back of my eyelids, that would be visualizing? (Sorry..)

 

Cause if so, the things I visualize are extremely choppy (as in I visualize something, it dissapears, it comes back, etc.).

Edited January 26, 2025 by nnsin

[TurboSimmie]

Yeah, this is one of those things that is a bit confusing to talk about because some people have extremely vivid visualization, some people have no mind's eye at all, and everything in between and the way that we mentally conceive of these things is different. I'm in the middle--I can picture things but not in vivid detail. Honestly, I'm not the most knowledgeable person on this topic.

[nnsin]

Just now, TurboSimmie said:

Yeah, this is one of those things that is a bit confusing to talk about because some people have extremely vivid visualization, some people have no mind's eye at all, and everything in between and the way that we mentally conceive of these things is different. I'm in the middle--I can picture things but not in vivid detail. Honestly, I'm not the most knowledgeable person on this topic.

That's alright, I figure I'll get somewhere with more practice. I appreciate your opinion on this though, cheers.

[Tewi]

Imposition is about projecting imagined stimuli on the world and feeling similarly to if you were really sensing them. Certainly uses the same mental muscle for visual imposition as visualization, but the key differences are both their integration with the actual environment around you, and immersion in feeling them like they're real. Mind it's still fully in your control and you still "know" the difference of imposed vs real even when mastering it, but the sense of them "really being there" becomes fulfilling nonetheless.

 

On 1/10/2016 at 11:20 PM, Luminesce said:

It's hard to say they're opaque or transparent, because both are implying a perfect imposition into real life. I could say they're opaque but my ability to actually see them is fuzzy, or that they're somewhat transparent.

 

Imposition is convincing your mind that what you're imagining you're seeing is what you're really seeing, or feeling or hearing etc. At no point are you really "seeing" anything, so at no point are they actually opaque or transparent. Visual clarity is a mix of 1, your actual visualization ability to imagine things clearly, and 2, how well you can convince yourself that you're actually seeing/sensing them. Technically you never see them, but effectively, you do. Perfect imposition would mean you were perfectly convinced they had a physical presence and could naturally react accordingly. Perfect visual clarity isn't technically necessary for that, either. My actual visualization is rather poor, but I'm pretty decent at imposition in that I can convince myself very well my tulpas are taking up physical space, and I can naturally react as if they're there (and even focus my vision on the air they're occupying).

 

Large imposition post by my host: https://community.tulpa.info/topic/14680-so-what-am-i-doing-wrong/?do=findComment&comment=225105

[SeekingMyPlanet]

Thanks for this question.

 

My tulpa likes to make me laugh by showing my brain a meme of her doing something silly in response to what is going on around us. That's purely in my mind. I also can envision my tulpa in the passenger seat when I'm driving (or on my lap). When I do she's sort of wispy and transparent but I "know" she's there.

 

There are people with something called "aphantasia" which mean their mind doesn't naturally produce pictures. I would think someone whose brain works that way might have trouble with the visualization part of it or even understanding what visualization is.

[Ranger]

On 1/26/2025 at 12:20 PM, nnsin said:

I understand visualization as seeing something on the back of your eyelids (after 2 days of practice, I can see faint color swirls if I'm really focused.

 

This is actually a technique for imposition. The faint dots, streaks, and colors on the back of your eyelids are hallucinations to begin with- when you close your eyes, you're depriving your eyes sensory input so you'll ultimately try to see something that isn't there. This is due to the Ganzfeld effect. Sitting in a really dark room for an extended period of time can make the effect stronger and you'll probably get more interesting shapes, streaks, and patterns. This becomes imposition training when you try to control the hallucinations.

 

On 1/26/2025 at 12:45 PM, nnsin said:

Is it just imagining something in your head? If I were to, say, think of an image of an apple, but not see it on the back of my eyelids, that would be visualizing? (Sorry..)

 

Cause if so, the things I visualize are extremely choppy (as in I visualize something, it dissapears, it comes back, etc.).

 

Yes. It's the same experience of recalling movie or videogame scenes, even if it's brief clips you can't focus on.

 

Having choppy images that fade away when you focus on them is completely normal for beginners. Starting off, you may want to imagine drawing black lines on a white background or white lines on a black background. Thinking of it as pen on paper or even MS paint may help your visualization quality because your brain can grab onto your memories as references, and more details about your mental images tends to help anyway. Once you're comfortable doing that, you can move on to triangles, circles, then 3d objects, etc. References are usually helpful. Once you get the hang of that, visualization guides should be easier to follow

 

It's also normal for your mind's eye to cut out if you're tired or visualized for a bit. Give yourself a chance to rest when this happens.

 

Visualization ability is like a muscle- you have to practice fairly regulary and it will slowly get better over time. Imagining your cobud's (my term for tulpa) form, even if they start with a basic blob at first for you to see them, or your wonderland, may make the training less of a hassle and more engaging.

Edited January 28, 2025 by Ranger