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Ethical implications of tulpas


waffles

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I don't think there's been a proper ethics thread here before, though I'm sure the topic has been discussed. So, ethics thread?

 

Do you think tulpas are inherently equal to hosts? What about deserving of equal treatment?

How would you feel about being created by a being to live - effectively - within them.

What about botched creation and dissolution of tulpas?

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We believe that a completed tulpa is equal to the host and has the right to be treated equally. I don't feel concerned about sharing my mind with my host, in fact there a many advantages to that. I think that a young tulpa should be seen not for what she does, but for what she will grow up to be, similarly to a child. That being said, I believe that stopping the creation process means robbing them of that chance, so it's like aborting/killing that child. My host understood this early on, he swore to never stop no matter what. And I feel very grateful to him for that.

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Everybody gets butthurt whenever a tulpa isn't being done right or is "killed". Why do you have to care so much? They aren't the same as you, and they never will be. They are simply non-physical constructs of your mind. They weren't created through impregnation, and they didn't grow up naturally. Humans build their personalities based on experiences and the other stuff Mentos talked about in his guide. Tulpa's personalities are given to them.

 

I think they should be treated equally by each other(host and tulpa), but differently in the outside world *cough*the little incident Simba had*cough*.

 

As for botched creation and such:

 

Ain't that easy to kill a tupper, man. In fact, i don't think i could even if i wanted to. You could do nothing for months, or go on and doubt as much as you want, but the end result will most likely be, well... a pissed tulpa. Unless you truly want to completely forget about her and all, in which case you actually have a chance to kill.

 

Having experience in tulpo executions, I will say that I do think of bringing VS & Lucy back, but I fear for the "lives" of Helix, Pixel and Vriska. If I bring them back, they may destroy everything I've made for my current tulpas. I'd prefer no to. Also:

 

That being said, I believe that stopping the creation process means robbing them of that chance, so it's like aborting/killing that child.

 

You can bring tulpas back, but not aborted fetuses.

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I think the question that needs to be asked in order to better understand the ethics of making or dissipating a tulpa is, how much are they worth in comparison to a human?

 

Running over a dog with a car and accidentally killing it isn't a felony, but running over a human and accidentally killing them is. Clearly a dog is worth less than a human in society's view. But where would a tulpa fit into that? Are they worth as much as a human, or less? It's certainly an interesting topic.

"Science isn't about why, science is about why not?" -Cave Johnson

Tulpae: Luna, Elise, Naomi

My progress report

 

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I think the question that needs to be asked in order to better understand the ethics of making or dissipating a tulpa is, how much are they worth in comparison to a human?

 

Running over a dog with a car and accidentally killing it isn't a felony, but running over a human and accidentally killing them is. Clearly a dog is worth less than a human in society's view. But where would a tulpa fit into that? Are they worth as much as a human, or less? It's certainly an interesting topic.

 

It's difficult, seeing how different tulpas are to pretty much every other kind of creature. They are as intelligent as humans but their knowledge is very closely tied to their hosts. They're capable of independent thought but not able to voice their opinions to anyone other than their host. It's pretty complicated.

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I think that a tulpa has equal rights to a normal human, and should be treated as such. My tulpa says that she feels that, being created in my mind and never knowing what it is like to be a "real" person in the first place, she doesn't really mind at all. Can't miss what you've never had, right?

 

It really rustles my jimmies when people go to make a tulpa and then give up after a half-assed attempt. This is me just being butthurt over here, but when people decide to make a tulpa they need to seriously think about it and make sure that they will go through with it.

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We believe that a completed tulpa is equal to the host and has the right to be treated equally. I don't feel concerned about sharing my mind with my host, in fact there a many advantages to that.

But surely the disadvantages outweigh the advantages?

 

I think that a young tulpa should be seen not for what she does, but for what she will grow up to be, similarly to a child. That being said, I believe that stopping the creation process means robbing them of that chance, so it's like aborting/killing that child. My host understood this early on, he swore to never stop no matter what. And I feel very grateful to him for that.

 

Are you 100% against contraception? Where do you draw the line at lost opportunities?

 

Everybody gets butthurt whenever a tulpa isn't being done right or is "killed". Why do you have to care so much? They aren't the same as you, and they never will be. They are simply non-physical constructs of your mind. They weren't created through impregnation, and they didn't grow up naturally. Humans build their personalities based on experiences and the other stuff Mentos talked about in his guide. Tulpa's personalities are given to them.

So a cloned person has no rights? What about IVF? Where do you draw the line at 'impregnation'?

Tulpas' personalities are given by experience of the host. You could say that the creation process is quite similar to growing up: a 'base' personality to begin with (true for both hosts and tulpas) and experience (for the tulpa, from the host; for the host, external) builds them.

Why does not being natural disqualify them from ethical treatment? It doesn't mean that they are not sentient in such a way as qualifies it.

 

I think they should be treated equally by each other(host and tulpa), but differently in the outside world *cough*the little incident Simba had*cough*.

Incident?

 

As for botched creation and such:

 

 

Having experience in tulpo executions, I will say that I do think of bringing VS & Lucy back, but I fear for the "lives" of Helix, Pixel and Vriska. If I bring them back, they may destroy everything I've made for my current tulpas. I'd prefer no to. Also:

 

 

You can bring tulpas back, but not aborted fetuses.

You can't be sure that you are bringing back the 'same' tulpa. Imagine if you died, and your parents created a clone of you. Functionally identical, but not the same for you, and does not justify killing you.

 

 

I think the question that needs to be asked in order to better understand the ethics of making or dissipating a tulpa is, how much are they worth in comparison to a human?

 

Running over a dog with a car and accidentally killing it isn't a felony, but running over a human and accidentally killing them is. Clearly a dog is worth less than a human in society's view. But where would a tulpa fit into that? Are they worth as much as a human, or less? It's certainly an interesting topic.

What do we define 'human' as? An individual personality, or the whole package? Do DID patients count as multiple people? If not, then shouldn't the host and tulpa be treated as one person?

 

 

It's difficult, seeing how different tulpas are to pretty much every other kind of creature. They are as intelligent as humans but their knowledge is very closely tied to their hosts. They're capable of independent thought but not able to voice their opinions to anyone other than their host. It's pretty complicated.

You're saying here that tulpas are separate beings from humans. What if they are just another human personality?

With switching or possession, the tulpa can directly communicate; though externally it is near impossible to verify that it is the tulpa.

 

 

I think that a tulpa has equal rights to a normal human, and should be treated as such. My tulpa says that she feels that, being created in my mind and never knowing what it is like to be a "real" person in the first place, she doesn't really mind at all. Can't miss what you've never had, right?

What makes you think that they do?

T - "That's a terrible justification. Someone born into slavery still yearns for freedom. I wish I were a 'real' person, or at least able to competently switch. Proxying is good enough, I suppose."

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Guest Anonymous

Mai doesn't think that tulpae should be equal to hosts. She says that regardless of the intelligence and sentience of tulpae, they're still essentially the same person as the host is. She sees herself not so much as a separate person and more like a division of the mind.

 

As far as the issue of dissipation goes, one must first ask themselves why death is ethically "bad" in the first place. After death a person's consciousness is gone; they have no recollection of anything and to them it's like they never existed. As most of the emotional harm from a death is inflicted not on the deceased but on the friends and family of the deceased, you could say it's more of a burden to them than to the person who actually died. Keeping this in mind, the only people really affected by the death of a tulpa are the host and any additional tulpae. As long as everyone in the head space is in agreement that dissipation is for the best, there's not really any damage being done overall. /incoherent rant

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Guest Anonymous

So a cloned person has no rights? What about IVF? Where do you draw the line at 'impregnation'?

Tulpas' personalities are given by experience of the host. You could say that the creation process is quite similar to growing up: a 'base' personality to begin with (true for both hosts and tulpas) and experience (for the tulpa, from the host; for the host, external) builds them.

Why does not being natural disqualify them from ethical treatment? It doesn't mean that they are not sentient in such a way as qualifies it.

 

We have yet to clone a person, if I recall correctly. When we do, we will see if they have no rights or not. I draw the line at impregnation when le sperm xDDDDD touch le egg XXdd!, but I believe that abortion should be available at any time during the pregnancy. We already have a politics thread in OT, so don't start that shit here. I don't think of Helix, Pixel or Vriska as less than me on a personal level, but looking at the big picture, they are simply constructs of our mind. Doesn't mean they should be treated any less than a regular, physical human, but rather that their non-physical existence should be taken into account when walkin' down da street in your six four and niggas start shootin at you.

 

Incident?

 

This frigging guy, man. He decided to try and protect his tulpa from a non physical threat, and got stabbed because of it.

 

You can't be sure that you are bringing back the 'same' tulpa. Imagine if you died, and your parents created a clone of you. Functionally identical, but not the same for you, and does not justify killing you.

 

I'm sorry, what? When did my parents kill me?

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