Strange....(my theory)

[Purlox]

So me and my mate have both got tulpas. He had his for 5 days and i had mine for 4 days. so let me get to the point, at school I was in this room in frech, he didnt no were i was. But the first thing that came to his mind was the place where he found me. This happened 2 in a row, so I thought , is it possible that tulpas that are close to each other, might have some connection of some kind/telepathy? If this ever happened to you please answer.

What happened to you can easily be explained as a coincidence (it happened only twice after all and I don't think there are that many places where he would have to look) or as him unconsciously knowing where you are by knowing where you were at that time some weeks ago and him acting on that unconscious knowledge.

 

Why doesn't an abject lack of evidence completely discredit ES?

Lack of evidence supporting the existence of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it only means you haven't found the evidence that would support the existence of it yet. This means that ESP could still be a valid thing that at least some people can do.

[waffles]

Lack of evidence supporting the existence of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it only means you haven't found the evidence that would support the existence of it yet. This means that ESP could still be a valid thing that at least some people can do.

 

I'd agree with you, but the problem is that there should be evidence.

Preliminary 'studies' have been around for almost a century. The idea of ES is, I'm sure, somewhat older. In a population of 7 billion people, it is unreasonable to think that not one can reproduce ES in a lab.

Even if ES is very rare (which, by the way, isn't usually stated in ES communities) then it's ridiculous that it has never been observed in a controlled environment.

 

Let me illustrate:

Adermatoglyphia is a very rare genetic condition that causes the person carrying it to have no fingerprints. It is so rare that there are only four extended families in the entire world that are known to have it. Despite this incredible rarity, the condition has been clinically studied, and identified to be caused by a mutation in SMARCAD1, in 4q22.

 

This demonstrates that something very rare can still be easily studied in a lab. Even if there were 100 people in the world that demonstrably had ES, they could be picked up and studied just like this mutation. It's not just a lack of evidence, but a lack of evidence where there really should be, that discredits ES.

[Guest Dreagar]

-snip-

 

Let me just point out that whereas ESP is something one could go their whole lives without knowing, lack of fingerprints is a tiny bit more obvious. Seriously, the world governments love to get our fingerprints for that time when we go rouge, however they do not bother to test for ESP in the same way.

 

Also, seriously, what would you believe is more likely? No fingerprints or magical powers? Knowing you, no fingerprints. And that's fine, but it proves how select are the few who would actually go out to develop their ESP.

[waffles]

 

Let me just point out that whereas ESP is something one could go their whole lives without knowing, lack of fingerprints is a tiny bit more obvious. Seriously, the world governments love to get our fingerprints for that time when we go rouge, however they do not bother to test for ESP in the same way.

Were there ES then governments would be very interested. Never mind tracking, think of the potential applications for ES. Limitless, really.

 

Also, seriously, what would you believe is more likely? No fingerprints or magical powers? Knowing you, no fingerprints. And that's fine, but it proves how select are the few who would actually go out to develop their ESP.

From what I know of ES people they tend to say that everyone has latent ability and it just needs to be harnessed. If this were true then - let's see;

Heading over to psionguild.org, which to the extent of my knowledge practices ES, we see that there are 2,300 registered members. 75 are active now, and this is far from peak time. If 5% of those users actually had ES, then that would already far exceed the number of people who have adermatoglyphia. That forum is, of course, only a small sample of the ES community, so we'd assume that there'd be a far greater number of ES people around.

Despite this, you are still trying to tell me that the number of people with ES is too low for a single lab study? Bullshit.

[Guest Dreagar]

Despite this, you are still trying to tell me that the number of people with ES is too low for a single lab study? Bullshit.

 

I think I left that too vague, it's partially the number, it's also partially the ridiculousness of the whole situation. Here's some quotes:

 

"Work in this field is a complete waste of time"

 

"Although it is politically incorrect to dismiss ideas out of hand, in this case there is absolutely no reason to suppose that telepathy is anything more than a charlatan's fantasy."

 

Yep. He'd definitely study a minor phenomena like that, with his attitude. Maybe if the numbers were far greater, it would tip the scales, but like you said, there's no clinical studies just yet.

[waffles]

 

I think I left that too vague, it's partially the number, it's also partially the ridiculousness of the whole situation.

So you're also telling me that there isn't a single lab in the entire world that would conduct a simple experiment, with the participant having already demonstrated their ES?

If I was running a lab and someone showed me preliminary ESP, and then asked for a short confirmation experiment, I'd do it.

 

Maybe if the numbers were far greater, it would tip the scales, but like you said, there's no clinical studies just yet.

 

'Just yet' you say. This isn't like tulpas not being studied; that pole explorer 'study' was conducted in the 1930s. In a century of the phenomenon being 'demonstrated' there has yet to be a single reliable study. This is the point. There has never been a clinical study that showed ES, ever. In the entirety of human history, with the phenomenon of ESP being popular for some time, and the entirety of the human population available to develop such an ability.

 

The numbers should be great anyway; even if there wasn't then it would only take one person with demonstrable ESP to initiate a clinical study. Despite the fact that there are large internet communities focused on ES and many people claiming to have ESP, not a single member of these groups has been able to demonstrate their 'abilities'. Ever.

[Guest Dreagar]

If I was running a lab and someone showed me preliminary ESP, and then asked for a short confirmation experiment, I'd do it.

 

It's not about willingness to study, it's about funds and respect, in the end. If you do not have respect, then you wont get funds, and therefore your studies are limited to basic, preliminary work. Working on ESP is a fast way to loose respect, and therefore any chance you'd have of studying the phenomenon in a clinical manner.

 

For this dogma to end, we'll have to wait until science gets its head out of its ass, and realise this is no longer respect or money, but the will for common advancement. And example of such dynamics can be found here.

 

tl;dr, the previously tin-foil hat situation of the quasi-crystal was being worked on by a scientist, who had been bogged down by the others saying the structure was impossible. Lo' and behold, he finds apt evidence for it. This is for something as simple as a crystalline formation, let alone something as 'far out' as assumedly magical powers.

 

Despite the fact that there are large internet communities focused on ES and many people claiming to have ESP, not a single member of these groups has been able to demonstrate their 'abilities'. Ever.

 

Or wanted to, mind you. I know many people with far odder attributes, some very personally, that would die before they revealed themselves. The internet's fun because it's anonymous, that's why we put up an alias. However real life isn't as lenient.

 

---

 

Also, I like how we've pretty much commandeered the thread. Woo! We're worse than spiderman.

[waffles]

 

It's not about willingness to study, it's about funds and respect, in the end. If you do not have respect, then you wont get funds, and therefore your studies are limited to basic, preliminary work. Working on ESP is a fast way to loose respect, and therefore any chance you'd have of studying the phenomenon in a clinical manner.

 

For this dogma to end, we'll have to wait until science gets its head out of its ass, and realise this is no longer respect or money, but the will for common advancement. And example of such dynamics can be found here.

 

tl;dr, the previously tin-foil hat situation of the quasi-crystal was being worked on by a scientist, who had been bogged down by the others saying the structure was impossible. Lo' and behold, he finds apt evidence for it. This is for something as simple as a crystalline formation, let alone something as 'far out' as assumedly magical powers.

 

Let's design a simple experiment to test for telekinesis - oh, wait, we have. Does that look to you like it needs a lot of funding?

An ES experiment would be very easy to carry out, and requires no specialist equipment or funding. Moreover, given the easy nature of the experiment, the subject or any other with ESP can easily be tested elsewhere to allow for reciprocation of results.

 

Remember that the scientist in question managed to get a Nobel prize; if you were the first scientist to prove ESP then that would be something.

 

Remember too that you don't need funding or respect for a clinical trial; you need a controlled environment. If your findings are replicated in other controlled environments (as they would be with ES) then there isn't a problem.

 

 

Or wanted to, mind you. I know many people with far odder attributes, some very personally, that would die before they revealed themselves. The internet's fun because it's anonymous, that's why we put up an alias. However real life isn't as lenient.

 

 

Having ESP wouldn't be stigma. It wouldn't be embarrassing, and I see no reason why demonstrating it validly would be a personal problem.

[Guest Dreagar]

Remember too that you don't need funding or respect for a clinical trial; you need a controlled environment. If your findings are replicated in other controlled environments (as they would be with ES) then there isn't a problem.

 

>http://noetic.org/research/program/extended-human-capacities/

 

The problem here is that few people would want replicate it, even if you get a shabby control environment and the few people you could corral to test. Funds help bring test subjects, funds ensure a quality testing environ, and funds make sure you can also keep up your lifestyle.

 

Having ESP wouldn't be stigma. It wouldn't be embarrassing, and I see no reason why demonstrating it validly would be a personal problem.

 

It's a variety of things, fear of ridicule, oaths of secrecy, ect. For me, it's mostly fear of a violently negative reaction, ESP may not be so bad, but other, similar, traits are. Traits that classically lead to their host's painful death. We're a violent species, that much hasn't change, if it took us 100 years to get over colour, how long would it take for us to get over far greater differences?

 

Also inb4 X-Men racial war.

[waffles]

 

>http://noetic.org/research/program/extended-human-capacities/

I picked a paper at random, and read the description:

 

"This raises questions about commonly used scientific methodologies"

 

No. The idea of an experiment isn't to question scientific method, it's to obtain results using it. This is really discrediting.

 

 

The problem here is that few people would want replicate it, even if you get a shabby control environment and the few people you could corral to test. Funds help bring test subjects, funds ensure a quality testing environ, and funds make sure you can also keep up your lifestyle.

 

Regardless, there's no reason why you can't turn up at a funded lab and ask to be tested for ten minutes. If you could, on the doorstep, demonstrate ESP - as one would expect - then it would be easy to replicate it in lab conditions, and moreover the technician on the door would be sure to let you in.

 

 

It's a variety of things, fear of ridicule, oaths of secrecy, ect. For me, it's mostly fear of a violently negative reaction, ESP may not be so bad, but other, similar, traits are. Traits that classically lead to their host's painful death. We're a violent species, that much hasn't change, if it took us 100 years to get over colour, how long would it take for us to get over far greater differences?

You'd be ridiculed if you failed to demonstrate ESP; if you could demonstrate it to me then I wouldn't be ridiculing you?

Oaths of secrecy like the ones they take in respectable labs? There's no good reason to take an oath of secrecy.

 

Society is more tolerant than it used to be; moreover there wouldn't be anyone killing you for ESP anyway. There's no applicable stigma; it'd be like killing someone because they had a photographic memory. If you seriously think that fear for your life is a valid reason not to demonstrate ESP then you are one delusional person.

 

Traits such as what?