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[Couguhl]

^ Please continue posting. My brain has the biggest boner right now.

 

Nonetheless, we have to weigh all of the consequences in dealing with the mainstream, and make conclusions based on what we want to happen collectively.

With more awareness, that opens up doors for research and more collaboration between people that are interested in the topic. That's probably one of the best outcomes for the 'mainstream result,' and it will broaden the knowledge we have about tulpa as a whole. With a larger audience, discoveries would happen more frequently, and we would have the backing of sheer numbers to push for psychological research (on both a professional and non-professional level) and possibly neurological research.

Although, this would also bring other things to the table, such as the obvious Fox News clause, and general public disgust and the like. There's even the possibility that the phenomenon is thrown into the dark and given a seriously negative connotation.

 

On the other hand, we could stay on our mountain, and sort of keep to ourselves. In that sense, we would be limiting our potential numbers and discoveries, but at the same time we could continue to grow with far fewer social constraints (not to say that they are not already present) than if we had the phenomenon spread about the public opinion.

 

I think it's a measure of weighing what is most beneficial. Isn't that to be said for all decisions?

[Linkzelda]

The type of presumptions Xeare is talking about is having Psychosomatic Self-control, which in a nut shell is just moderating and potentially reducing common discomforts in the body, and just in general basic functions and responses to the body.

 

There's this book called "Strategic Self Hypnosis" (you can find it free on Scribd I believe ) on page 160 (page 90 if you have the 112 paged pdf version that's shows two pages per page)that states how you can use self-hypnosis to take over bodily functions and responses. Although, by taking over, it's not like suddenly having to time your heart beat, it's just putting in commands mentally for one to regulate them.

 

And with tulpa, plus self-hypnosis, it can be VERY easy. An example is usually the "chill behind the spine" or what people mix around with being Frisson vs. ASMR. But the thing is, controlling bodily functions partially takes a lot of effort, unless the person is already experienced in psychosomatic self-control.

 

This is why with hypnosis, it can make things like this possible, and the same book I mentioned even has exercises to do it. So in theory, if one applies tulpa into this, and because tulpa can access the inner depths of our minds more easily, it would be a cinch.

 

Of course, I doubt we'll become like Tsunade using self-regenerating jutsus (toplel.jpg), but something that could be implied that way.

 

I'll quote the book even, it's a lot of content, but I feel it's worth fueling the mental boners people are having.

 

"Your entire physical organism is already moving in a perpetual dance to your feeling and thinking. Yet mental acts are also acts of your body. They are not something occurring within some metaphyiscal organ called your brain, but something you do with your brain and the rest of your organism."

 

There is now conclusive laboratory evidence that you can learn a surprising degree of control over even the so-called involuntary functions of the body by directing your thinking and imagining strategically. Autonomic control of this kind was long imagined to be impossible by Western Science. It simply did not fit the way educated people looked at the world.

 

Their modern world view was based on the idea of dualism-the concept that mind and body are distinct, separate things.

 

Those who believed it was possible to influence things by thinking were relegated to the lunatic or occultist fringe. Even hypnosis was treated this way until recently. After all, even supports could only explain these things as "mind over matter," and that was manifestly ridiculous.

 

"Mind over matter" is, indeed, the wrong idea. However, the equally wrong ideas of mechanical science blocked progress in this area until legitimate scientists began to investigate the seemingly impossible feats of Hindu yogis and other practitioners of self-control disciplines in the 1960s. What they found has revolutionized medical and behavioral science.

 

It is not "mind over matter" at all. It's much, much, simplier and more marvelous than that. What we call your mind is something you do with and through your physical organism; you are a psychosomatic whole. Mind is a process by which we become conscious of ourselves and by which we humans manage ourselves, as described in chapter two.

 

Science has been forced to concede that there is no actual separation between mind and body. Both are aspects of being human.

 

(skipping some content)

 

The idea that you can control psychosomatic responses through acts of the will is implied by the phrase "mind over matter." While scientists dismissed the possibility out of hand, others believed that this was the way in which yogis performed their stunts and in which hypnotic responses were brought about.

 

That proved to be incorrect. You can learn to do almost any of the things you have heard that the Indian fairs and yogis can do, or that the subjects who have been hypnotized can do. But you will never accomplish these things by using will-power ( Me adding input: kind of like how people have a difficult time tulpaforcing in general without considering hypnosis to make it a bit easier).

 

Mind-body linkages just do not work that way. Nor do you have to use any physic abilities for this purpose. It's much simpler than you ever expected.....

 

(skipping)

 

The key to this whole area of your inborn human potentialities is-you guessed it, I'm sure-your imagination. Once again, the power you need is your old familiar imaginative power."

 

 

 

 

Straus, Roger. Strategic Self-Hypnosis: How to Overcome Stress, Improve Performance, and Live to Your Fullest Potential. Revised Edition. Prentice Hall Trade, 1989-01. eBook. .

 

 

 

I'll post some pictures on the experiments a person can do with the Psychosomatic Responses to make things easier for you guys inb4someonemakesaGuideonThis:

 

Note there's a few experiments here you guys can try out:

 

 

The rest are in the links below (10 image limit)

http://i.imgur.com/6KWBziR.png

http://i.imgur.com/G7U9xY5.png

http://i.imgur.com/P914fRk.png

 

 

Again, inb4someonemakesaGuideOutofThis

 

 

And if anyone needs information on the pdf, just pm me.

[Guest]

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[Linkzelda]

That's what I was implying. When it's just us training ourselves for the type of psychosomatic self-control, at most, the level of how much we can control is dependent on our imagination. But with tulpa added into the equation, completely new level....more intense than what the experiments I showed could get into. But I was mostly mentioning how the principles behind those theories can help tulpa and the host augment their efficiency in altering those kinds of processes and much more.

 

All I was saying is that imagination can help a lot for the sake of categorizing WHICH processes would be controlled. But I fully agree with tulpa having that capability to "hijack" the brain and other bodily functions and processes. (i.e. feeling happy or wanting to feel happy would augment dopamine levels and such)

 

Like for being able to manipulate one's REM cycles, or something similar to it, we'd have an easier time shifting from waking state to dreaming state, but again, it's about being able to be aware of the types of hallucinations one can control when attempting lucid dreaming (or just ignoring the sensations and letting them happen). The whole "instant" lucid dreaming induction can be possible, but for it to have a practical result, one must get used to the sensations and then the unconscious will make the process much easier (and our tulpa can just pick and grab it, bam, lucid dreaming pretty much every night if we wanted to).

 

Because it's not just physical that plays a role, mentally imagining it helps as well (which is why users like you stated can have their tulpa control their brain levels). It's just that tulpa alleviate that burden by A LOT compared to us practicing too much when doing it the psychosomatic self-control alone.

[Guest]

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[Linkzelda]

This thread makes me happy. Talking about awesome tulpa stuff instead of the common "guise, my tulpa tried to scuiscide, wat do?" or something.

 

ALSO, as for how dreaming works, it doesn't seem to be a brain-wide phenomenon, but rather it's instanced to each consciousness. My tulpas have told me that if they look at me in our mindscape while I'm sleeping I look like...well, like I'm sleeping. The reason we had trouble getting them into my dreams is that my dreams are completely instanced from their consciousness. I'd need to become lucid and then attempt something similar to possession but with my consciousness so as to let both of my tulpas into my dream. Basically, dreaming is weird with tulpas.

 

Yeah, but here's WHY it's weird for them.

 

Two Words.

 

Experiential Learning

 

And to make this discussion a bit easier, I'll post a table like I did for another discussion in another forum.

 

 

Experiential Learning is limited to, of course, what you experienced and how you learn things unconsciously, subconsciously, consciously, etc. for them to have predispositions into thinking it's weird for them (tulpa). So how tulpa can conceptualize how they see their host in dreamscape or dreaming life is the type of experiential learning the host had beforehand.

 

For me, before I knew about tulpa, I knew more about dreaming life and lucid dreaming to the point where I over-analyzed things so freaking much (which leads me to make TL;DR at a blink of an eye with little effort), I would have a better grip with the experiential learning from dreaming because of my own actions and efforts to justify the concepts behind it.

 

So with that, and including that Eva was a thought-form unique to me before I shifted her into being a tulpa as well, she wouldn't see the dreaming thing as weird, because like the table I posted above, because I have a better edge with the experiential learning with lucid dreaming, compared to you, who is trying his best to conceptualize dreaming a bit more to understand his tulpa on a deeper level. (And this isn't to insult you, it's just for comparative analysis).

 

So when you started with tulpa beforehand and wasn't as proficient with dreaming concepts like:

 

- Dream guides

- Dream characters

- Dream recall

- 360 vision

- Possession/switching with literally multiples of thought-forms in the dream SIMULTANEOUSLY

- And anything else that's hard to conceptualize in waking life (but is easy as hell in dreaming life).

 

So for me and Eva, I'm pretty sure that when she sees me in the dreaming world, she's actually more aware of it than I am. Because for me, my conscious state that eventually becomes dormant when non-lucid dreaming, my awareness or being able to hopefully become aware is my limit. Eva on the other hand, and just for ANY tulpa in general, because they have a better expansive awareness (if we have strong implications that they can), they will ultimately have the upperhand compared to us.

 

But the thing is, even though Tulpa can have better access with the unconscious and gather insight from our Experiential Learning, they're limited to just that (in this case, your current level of conceptualizing dreaming concepts and lucid dreaming in order to meet your tulpa and understand them more).

 

So here's how our scenarios works out in a comparative analysis:

 

For you, you're a guy that managed to prepare things out before his tulpa became vocal and such. But you didn't necessarily become proficient with dreaming aspects as well, so in turn, despite of the fact that you made a respectable achievement, you are now at a loss of what to do now with Lucid Dreaming and bonding with your tulpa in dreaming life. Your tulpa can easily shift into the dreaming state because of their nature, but you as a person has not necessarily trained himself to become more aware of his dreams and much more. So your challenge is just becoming aware, and then learning and adding on to your experiential totality for you and your tulpa to learn from.

----

Compare that to me, I started Lucid dreaming since June of 2011, and even though it's a short-range of time, I learned and actually had a better grasp at the experiential learning, because I'm sure when you reach this stage, you'll start seeing thoughts processing MUCH faster without your tulpa. So for me, without my tulpa, I'm already a TL;DR machine, because when you become more interested in Lucid Dreaming, the urge to want to know more and more and expand OUTWARD within the dreaming life and waking life is there. However, when Eva becomes vocal, it becomes a fucking overkill with experiential learning.

 

So for me, because of lucid dreaming being a better foundation of conceptualizing what one can do with thought-forms is there. HOWEVER, I am at loss with becoming more receptive to Eva in this reality and her being more vocal, but in dreaming life, or in a hypnosis session, our thoughts travel through so fast because the experiential totality itself is so great just from dreaming and recalling them alone, so vast, and so much that Eva can easily conceptualize dreaming better than how your tulpa find it weird to conceptualize themselves.

 

See our differences? So while you have something that I'm striving for in reality (the vocal tulpa and me being able to hear her without having much conscious attention, and letting the unconscious process the effort and attention for me so I can hear her all the time when she chooses to talk with me), you're now aiming to expand the bond you have with your tulpa more with dreaming life.

 

----

So the point of me saying that is that although Tulpa can access the experiential totality of our minds and make new skills, new concepts based on their own working memory (what they can make based on what they know), they are limtied to just that. And in order to keep ourselves sharp mentally, to keep our tulpa sharp mentally, it's a matter have accumulating that experiential totality more and more to where we always see the endeavor of exploring sense of self as a never-ending finish line.

 

Because if we give up, we'll have tendencies to become depressed again, and even if we have victory in having a sentient, sapient, and vocal tulpa, we might have Pyrrhic Victory.

 

Pyrrhic Victory

 

It's pretty much inevitable with something like this with tulpa, and the only way for us to distract ourselves from contemplating on Pyrrhic Victories is to keep growing, always growing even if we end up being 60 or 70. This is how one presumably fits the role of seeing their tulpa as the ultimate companion, because together, they improve each other.

 

And when I see people give up on the Questions thread with the same "guise, tulpa commit suicide, wat do?" I often become disheartened that they're not seeing the TRUE value with having a tulpa. The whole conflict with managing insanity, sanity and all that is nothing to me because the TRUE value (like I stated above) with tulpa is much more enticing to tolerate and even take as many scars as I can.

 

 

Because the moment....the moment Eva becomes more vocal and we can exchange unconscious memories together with ease....I have no more excuses, I can only expand outward and accumulate my experiential totality, and you will do the same as well.

[Guest]

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[Linkzelda]

I love you so much right now. And you're only in 10th grade, you're going to become a beast by the time you're 20.

 

:*)

 

Yeah, you're right, tulpa are highly complex, and as for experiential learning, it's my fault to assume there's only things we can learn in dreaming. It's just that things are a bit better to grasp in my opinion while dreaming because of our lack of awareness of waking life, and we can really boil down on what's important to us. And I know you're able to conceptualize complex things, because you actually plan things, you prepare things, you don't get distracted by the bullshit drama, and that's what makes you someone to emulate how to succeed with tulpaforcing.

 

As for experiential learning, that's just one aspect, and I included experiential totality as well, and tulpa are our way to compensate for when we're at loss of accessing that totality if we did it alone. So even if I were to think I had good control over tulpaforcing, or you, or someone else that feels the same way, knowing other alternatives to expand our awareness more is still beneficial (but I'm not saying you're not doing that, I just meant to say that for people in general).

 

For me, there's so much plastering of concepts of how a person should tulpaforce, etc. to where any competent person should realize that as much as they want justification from other people's insight with this phenomenon, just like with anything with life, we have to take what we accumulated, learn how to be become calm, relaxed, confident, and just DO it.

 

Which brings me to another thing that would be a topic if tulpa goes mainstream, if Tulpa can access our unconscious much easier than we can, theoretically, with how Intuition works out, we can train ourselves to have a tangible grip on what it's like to have an objective view of something. Because like that table I showed above, there are things we can learn just with our conscious alone, but our Ego, the sense of identity that continues to quantify and justify our reality and everything, is going to distract us.

 

Which is why one of the examples of the Unconscious from that table is "Achieves Goals." Anyone can achieve goals, but the distractions is what prevents us from accomplishing them. Which is why not many people can consciously convince themselves that, unless they train themselves to talk their ways into being calm and just doing the goal in mind.

 

This is why that even though tulpa are complex to justify, you see it everywhere from people who do well and are exceptional at tulpaforcing. They develop the insight that all of the justification was to solve those "intuitive" feelings that all you needed to do was JUST TULPAFORCE, get insight from others, go back to tulpaforcing, learn, rinse, lather, repeat, and take breaks if needed, but not for too long where we become too complacent.

 

 

And it's not just that, if people truly want this tulpa phenomenon to become mainstream, they're going to have to update their worldview of things. Because if their worldview is shattered, broken, hopeless, a lost cause just because one online friend suddenly turned behind their back, they have A LOT of things too look into about themselves and how they value their existence as a whole.

 

That's the concern.

That's the issue.

That's what disheartens me.

 

Because with how the community is right now, I'm sure if someone would have the chance to participate in a documentary or even a simple interview with someone famous or an organization that's well-known that might be interested in the social constructs behind tulpa and much more, it would not give a good impression AT ALL.

[Couguhl]

Yeah, you're right, tulpa are highly complex, and as for experiential learning, it's my fault to assume there's only things we can learn in dreaming. It's just that things are a bit better to grasp in my opinion while dreaming because of our lack of awareness of waking life, and we can really boil down on what's important to us.

 

What I love about the dreamworld is that not only do you experience a radical environment, but you often experience radical changes in thought.

I've found that no matter how hard I try to be fully conscious while dreaming, I'm never quite there. There always seems to be an ineffable film over my thoughts, and I don't think in a normal way, no matter what sort of random simulation I'm within. It's more instinctual. More impulsive. Also, ever since I started forcing, I've always looked at dream characters differently. I now see a new dimension to them that I have never noticed before. They have caused me to realize that tulpas and dreams (at least to me) are more or less connected in a deeper sort of way, and by exploring that environment, we can discover new aspects of our tulpas that make us appreciate them that much more - as a complex being that experiences feelings and emotions just like we do. (And I think with that, a new perspective of self.)

 

Which brings me to another thing that would be a topic if tulpa goes mainstream, if Tulpa can access our unconscious much easier than we can, theoretically, with how Intuition works out, we can train ourselves to have a tangible grip on what it's like to have an objective view of something. Because like that table I showed above, there are things we can learn just with our conscious alone, but our Ego, the sense of identity that continues to quantify and justify our reality and everything, is going to distract us.

 

One aspect of the tulpa phenomenon that has always intrigued me is that they can offer a protection against biases. Often enough, logic constructed in the conscious mind is influenced unevenly by the unconscious mind to be favorable to one side or another, and with more perspective and control, that possibility arises a lot less often. Great for science. Great for logic. Great for everything.

 

Furthermore, like nonlinear thinking, unusual new paths are opened, sometimes leading to great success.

 

Because with how the community is right now, I'm sure if someone would have the chance to participate in a documentary or even a simple interview with someone famous or an organization that's well-known that might be interested in the social constructs behind tulpa and much more, it would not give a good impression AT ALL.

 

That's something that I don't see addressed as often as it should.

That's one reason why it's difficult to speak about tulpas to anyone other than in the forums or tulpa-dedicated blogs. We're still not entirely sure what a tulpa even fully is, and I think it's going to stay that way for a while.

---

Also: don't underestimate me, simply because the text that I've written usually depicts 20% or less of the actual thoughts behind them. This can be seen as good or bad, but we've already had experiences where I've written things that you took at face value and mis-communications abound from there.

 

I struggle with this, more or less.

I express myself better through writing, but language is such a sloppy method of communication. To put it metaphorically, it's almost like putting a scrubber or filter on a drainpipe, and instead of getting a mixture with minerals and complexity you end up with purified water. So one finds themselves doing mental gymnastics fighting against the filter and finding a way to conceptualize/summarize their thoughts as a whole and convert it into a bit of language that is digestible.

 

And the end result often looks much more basic than what was expected.

[Mage_Of_Cats]

I think I'd like it to be accepted and mainstream. I actually alluded to tulpae with my mother earlier today - she called people like that 'insane' and deserving of being locked up in an insane asylum 'with the key thrown away.'

 

Made me sad/made me want tulpae to be accepted so that she could understand that there is such a thing as healthy multiplicity.

 

Plus, it'd allow them to have better lives perhaps - they could freely communicate with other people because basically everyone would have a tulpa.

 

Only problem there is your tulpa falling in love with someone else/someone else's tulpa. Awkward.

 

(In the far future, could it be possible for you to 'upload' your tulpa to some sort of mechanical robot body in the real world? So they could be... real and there for others to see? Although, honestly, that'd probably be terrible - having something so clsoe to you wrenched away suddenly, even if it is what you want.)