Tulpa-ing someone else

[Kaz with a K]

This will sound really stupid. I admit, it is kind of dumb.

But is it possible to give someone else a Tulpa?

Like, through a period of subliminal messaging, or something?

Maybe you could design/find a frequency of beats to make them forget, and then have them go through a type of forcing?

So I'm asking two questions:

1. Is it possible?

2. If so, how would you go about it?

[Linkzelda]

With how the process of making a tulpa is a constant endeavor of going back and forth with believing, practicing, researching, and making progressive strives to improve from one's mistakes, there's some period of time where the tulpa isn't going to be fully sentient, sapient, and vocal instantaneously like dropping an Atom Bomb.

 

One might be able to implant suggestions of one wanting to create a thought-form, or some means of hypnosis or whatever to reach hyper suggestibility and a trance, but with how the mind needs time to make neurological connections to bring about the existence of a tulpa, it seems improbable to do that. The only reasonable way for this being possible is someone that spoon-feeds you on what you should do and is with you every step of the way in your tulpaforcing sessions. Even circlejerking in IRC has its limits with that, and to actually have someone that would go through that time without worrying about their own life is improbable.

 

But who knows, maybe in the future there's going to be people /robots/machines/etc. that have more knowledge in speeding up sapience and sentience if they understand the mind more, but until then, it's just silly and irrational. But even with that, it's really the host doing the tulpaforcing, it's just whatever entity presumably helping them is just there for consolation. Kind of like how nearly all forms of hypnosis is self-hypnosis, because the person aiming to be hypnotized would have to be suggestible to some extent, to be primed for the session before it's actually done.

[Shui]

Yes. You can give yourself a tulpa through hypnosis, so I'm pretty sure you could give someone else a tulpa with hypnosis.

[Kiahdaj]

Yes. You can give yourself a tulpa through hypnosis

 

[citation needed]

[Kaz with a K]

information

That sounds about right. I guess I figured it would be a little implausible to subtly condition someone into having a Tulpa. Like, it could be possible to plant the idea of it, but not the Tulpa themselves, unless you like whispered it into their head while they slept? (which probably doesn't work anyway)

contradicting information

I don't think it quite works like that...

[Shui]

Hypnotism, by G. H. Estabrooks:

 

For example, the writer while in military hospital had ample time to experiment with autosuggestion. He was able to suggest to himself that he would wake up at 2 A.M. and hear a symphony. Even more interesting he could suggest that he would awaken and hear spiritistic raps. Sure enough at 2 a.m. he was wide awake listening to very distinct raps from the spirit world. Then came a very interesting experience, almost a state of divided consciousness. He heard the raps distinctly but knew they were the results of autosuggestion. He was even able to make a "mental request" that they group themselves in twos and threes and the spirits obliged. We will see later that hypnotism provides us with a key to explain most psychic phenomena, when these are genuine and not the result of magician's tricks. Autosuggestion gives us an excellent device with which to study many strange things. The writer had a pet polar bear which he was able to call up merely by counting to five. This animal would parade around the hospital ward in most convincing fashion, over and under the beds, kiss the nurses and bite the doctors. It was very curious to note how obedient he was to "mental" commands, even jumping out of a three story window on demand.

 

But there is a certain menace to autosuggestion which this phantom bear illustrated. He became so very familiar that he refused to go away. He would turn up in the most unexpected places and without being sent for. The writer was playing bridge one evening and almost threw his hostess into hysterics by suddenly remarking, "There's that damn bear again. I wish someone would shoot the beast." He also had a nasty habit of turning up in dark corners at night, all very well when one realized he was just made of ghost-stuff but rather hard on one's nerves for all that. So he was banished and told never to return, but it was fully a month before the writer felt quite sure that his ghostly form would not be grinning at him over the foot of his bed during a thunderstorm.

 

So you can create a tulpa with hypnosis. And like Linkzelda said, all hypnosis is self-hypnosis. So you can argue that to give someone else a tulpa with hypnosis, you're actually only guiding them through doing it for themselves -- they need to be willing participants. It might take several sessions over the course of a few months, but I don't know for sure.

[Kiahdaj]

Except that that's probably not a tulpa?

Sure, you could hypnotize yourself into hallucinating, but what makes a tulpa a tulpa is (allegedly) its sapience, which there is no reason to believe that polar bear had.

 

After all, how could your being hypnotized create another living being? Hypnosis affects you. It does not make much sense that your susceptibility to suggestion would create another being.

[Linkzelda]

Except that that's probably not a tulpa?

Sure, you could hypnotize yourself into hallucinating, but what makes a tulpa a tulpa is (allegedly) its sapience, which there is no reason to believe that polar bear had.

 

After all, how could your being hypnotized create another living being? Hypnosis affects you. It does not make much sense that your susceptibility to suggestion would create another being.

 

This is the misconception people have here, and maybe I'm misinterpreting you incorrectly, but it seems when you're saying "you," I'm presuming you just mean all that entails with the "conscious" you.

 

Hypnosis is a process to bypass the critical factor and the end result is a trance state. Once the trance state/hyper suggestibility has been achieved, it's a matter of using language patterns and other linguistic means to communicate with the unconscious mind. And when it comes to ANYTHING that involves the unconscious mind (pretty much everything), it's very naive to disregard how it would process the information being given through hypnosis. Right now due to the lack of evidence, it seems improbable and irrational, but the window of opportunity is there the more this community understands the processes of tulpa. (Sadly the majority of members are too incompetent to speed up that communal knowledge because of their short attention spans with discussions on the forum and being mentally exhausted too quickly)

 

 

And as for what you deemed as what makes a tulpa a tulpa, that's just one of many existential aspects that contributes towards how this forum models a tulpa. Of course, that's a matter of opinion for each member on this site, but I personally feel the other concepts that stacks onto the growing sentience and sapience are crucial in how we theorize what a tulpa is. The whole endeavor with making a tulpa involves being suggestible (or shifting through trance states) to some extent and demonstrating that the desire to have one consciously is what will allow the unconscious to make the predispositions needed for having a tulpa.

 

Which is why when Shui mentioned it would take willing participants, if there are people that can do that, it's probable (just not practical as of yet). Of course, the host will still have to put in some effort, it's not like people using hypnosis is a magical cop-out from the person having to make one.

 

The Keyword to pay attention in both me and Shui's declarations is guiding, not controlling.

[Kiahdaj]

Well sure, if all one considers a tulpa to be is a hallucination, then okay, you can undoubtedly make a tulpa that way. But work with me here; claiming it can be done because it fits the belief with the lowest criteria is a little silly.

 

Keep in mind I never said it couldn't be done. I'm skeptical, sure; and so I wanted some evidence. However, as far as I'm concerned, I received none. As I said, unless you subscribe to such a belief that tulpas are mere hallucinations, that polar bear was not a tulpa.

 

And as far as being hypnotized into believing you have a tulpa, yeah, why not, that could help. After all, a large aspect of the process is belief. I don't believe how you attain that belief matters much. When worded as "you can create a tulpa with hypnosis", however, I have a problem. Unless you're suggesting that after a session, you magically have a fully-functioning, imposed, possession-capable tulpa, with no forcing requirements on your part, then it was not "created" with hypnosis, as far as I'm concerned. In such a case, hypnosis would be an aid to development in the same sense that, if for some reason peanut butter helps you concentrate, you did not "create your tulpa with peanut butter".

[Linkzelda]

Well sure, if all one considers a tulpa to be is a hallucination, then okay, you can undoubtedly make a tulpa that way. But work with me here; claiming it can be done because it fits the belief with the lowest criteria is a little silly.

 

And as far as being hypnotized into believing you have a tulpa, yeah, why not, that could help. After all, a large aspect of the process is belief. I don't believe how you attain that belief matters much. When worded as "you can create a tulpa with hypnosis", however, I have a problem. Unless you're suggesting that after a session, you magically have a fully-functioning, imposed, possession-capable tulpa, with no forcing requirements on your part, then it was not "created" with hypnosis, as far as I'm concerned.

 

This is because of your conviction that hypnosis would help in terms of inducing the hallucinations, we're focusing more on the suggestibility for the person to be more open-minded towards going through the process of building sentience and sapience with a tulpa. Just like how we have to personally guide ourselves and climb over the doubts we have in the initial stages, interaction with people using hypnosis on you or me for instance would still be self-hypnosis, it's just that the consolation factor contributes to being more suggestible. Personally, getting people to console a person to do things isn't needed (but optional) since after a person knows how to discipline themselves, they can do it alone.

 

And like you've stated yourself, hypnosis is just an aid, and we agree that it isn't a deux ex machina where the host doesn't have to do anything. After a hypnosis session, it's not about convincing the person they have a full-fledged tulpa, it's more about making sure the conscious, but most importantly, the unconscious mind gets the idea in the urgency of doing instead of the conscious critical factor getting in the way of filtering out those suggestions.

 

The critical factor can be a hassle in making success of creating a tulpa, and the questions & answers section is the epitome of people doubting because of how the critical factor would state things like, "I tried," "I did this but..," "I'm doing this, however it's not.." etc.

 

peanut butter helps you concentrate, you did not "create your tulpa with peanut butter".

 

Although your analogy would seem plausible, it's a non-sequitur. Me and you both know that discipline, perseverance, confidence, and being able to experiment and go through the process of making a tulpa is what eventually creates the tulpa. If hypnosis can be an aid (but not the magical cop-out) to get the host to have assurance in having the mannerisms to express and practice those concepts I mentioned above and having less chances of being distracted and impatient (which prevents them from doing things to make the breakthroughs of having a tulpa), hypnosis, in this case, is the "peanut butter" that can fuel the urgency of doing, but not the peanut butter that does all the the work.

 

All that matters is getting the person to do things and learn from them. And anyone that thinks hypnosis is a magical package to cop-out from actually doing and attempting things, you're right, they're just not having a realistic mindset here.

 

 

tl;dr:

 

Instead of it being the concern of "you can create a tulpa with hypnosis" it's more of "using hypnosis as an aid to give the host the assurance both consciously and unconsciously to have the mannerisms and competence needed (diligence, discipline, perseverance, confidence, experimentation, etc.) to produce and interact with the tulpa."

 

Just like the newcomers we see that don't really have confidence and do personal research, this is how to just shift them in the right direction. It's just one of many paths to take of course, not the only one.