A Kinda True Example of a Thoughtform Becoming Real

[shalkek]

I really want to start an intelligent discussion about this.

 

LIke really.. I wanna know... does anyone here have a tulpa that someone else can actually see???

 

Not that it hasn't been discussed before,

 

I'What if these sort of spells of these occult practices are just self induced hallucinations? Hell, what if the majority of religions, including pagan religions was just some form of tulpa?

 

but ...

 

But now I've been wondering that is Severus really a tupper, or if he is a demon or some spirit pretending to be the tulpa I want.

 

you know,

 

As I have discussed, one of my tulpas keeps animals off my path. In my community there are a lot of loose animals. So when I see a dog running to the road and then stopping for no apparent reason I know my tulpa is working. I suspect the tulpa works from within the dogs brain.

 

the fucking Meta forum is what it is.

 

So I want to share something with y'all.

 

In my country there's this superstition, that if two windows are open on either side of the room, or one door and a window, there will emerge this air current. This air current will seriously fuck your shit up.

 

I've heard people's reactions to this range from swollen cheeks, ear pain, general discomfort, coughing, head pain, all kinds of shit. But the thing is that it's not medically or even physically possible. A slight air current can't hurt you even if you're one foot tall and made of leaves.

 

Now stay with me. This shitty story has a point.

 

Now, everyone believes in this disease. I don't and it has never happened to me. But I've had people swear to me that lots of bad shit happened to them because of air currents.

 

Sure, they might have mistaken another (real) disease for it. But what if it's real?

 

I believe that if someone believes enough in anything, it will manifest itself. And this air current thing is some (kinda) proof. A mass induced thoughtform disease.

 

And now we're getting into the really weird stuff. What if not all the stuff that's real now has always been real. What if some thousands of years ago, alcohol didn't get you drunk and then some guy went "This shit will definitely fuck you up if you drink enough of it". Or, wild pansies really did cure syphilis. And all kinds of weird shit happened because people believed in it.

 

And that's why it's so hard to test if magick is real. Because no one believes it can be done anymore. And even if you really do, all you get are these vague, shallow results that might as well be a weird coincidence. And there's too many fucking coincidences.

 

Which leads to a lot of interesting (loony) questions. What is real? And what does it mean for something not to be real? Is life a dream?

[Guest amber5885]

Thats not a thought form become real it is basic psychology. Like the plocebo effect your brain is a very powerful creature. You can make yourself sick by just believing it.

 

Take the most extreme example of this psudopsyesis or gals pregnancy. A person can belive so strongly that they are pregnant that they can exhibit all signs and symptoms invluding going into labor and delivering after birth without ever having been pregnant.

 

He shared belief that this wind current can make you sick manifests because it's a belief that not just one but many people share so it's easy to by into therefore easy to manifest on a psychological level.

---

I once knew a girl who had all the signs and symptoms of various disorders while doctors told her she was fine and her tests were normal. She did this for years because when she was sick her mom waited on her hand a foot and she liked it.

 

She once exhibited symptoms of asthma but all her lung function tests and scans came back normal.

---

I guess the same goes for magic, prayer and any religious belief. It doesn't matter if it's real. What matters is how it effects the person that belives it. Like that saying goes.

 

For he who belives no proof is necissary but for he who does not no proof is possible.

[shalkek]

Thats not a thought form become real it is basic psychology. Like the plocebo effect your brain is a very powerful creature. You can make yourself sick by just believing it.

 

Take the most extreme example of this psudopsyesis or gals pregnancy. A person can belive so strongly that they are pregnant that they can exhibit all signs and symptoms invluding going into labor and delivering after birth without ever having been pregnant.

 

He shared belief that this wind current can make you sick manifests because it's a belief that not just one but many people share so it's easy to by into therefore easy to manifest on a psychological level.

---

I once knew a girl who had all the signs and symptoms of various disorders while doctors told her she was fine and her tests were normal. She did this for years because when she was sick her mom waited on her hand a foot and she liked it.

 

She once exhibited symptoms of asthma but all her lung function tests and scans came back normal.

---

I guess the same goes for magic, prayer and any religious belief. It doesn't matter if it's real. What matters is how it effects the person that belives it. Like that saying goes.

 

For he who belives no proof is necissary but for he who does not no proof is possible.

 

The girl probably has Munchausen's

 

Yeah, I guess you're right. I just got really excited that I finally found a real example of this.

[GuessWho]

My Reaction:

 

In my country there's this superstition, that if two windows are open on either side of the room, or one door and a window, there will emerge this air current...

That's completely normal...

 

... This air current will seriously fuck your shit up.

Wait, WTF!?

 

---

 

I've heard people's reactions to this range from swollen cheeks, ear pain, general discomfort, coughing, head pain, all kinds of shit.

...

Now, everyone believes in this disease. I don't and it has never happened to me.

But I've had people swear to me that lots of bad shit happened to them because of air currents.

Ever heard of the placebo effect?

 

If you can be 'magically' cured by believing you will, your mind could just as easily bring a fake illness upon your body because you believe you'll get sick ("nocebo").

 

In all likelihood, it's just a psychological response in which your brain alters what you perceive.

(i.e. self hypnosis to ignore symptoms of illness or to experience non-existent ones)

...but for all we know, there may be more to it than that...

Very little is known about why and how a placebo works. Conditioning/self-hypnosis/etc. is the logical conclusion.

 

...But what if, we actually have the ability to alter reality itself through thought rather than just our perception of it, and we're just not proficient in doing so?

Growing up in a world where such things are considered impossible, the "logic" we develop through "knowledge" and experience would reinforce such belief.

If humans have potential for metaphysical abilities that depend on faith and trust, then our "logic" creates enough doubt to nullify them.

 

Along that train of thought, a placebo would just be a crutch to eliminate the doubt that's holding us back - although not a very useful one as it requires us to be oblivious of it's use in order for it to work.

 

---

 

And now we're getting into the really weird stuff. What if not all the stuff that's real now has always been real. What if some thousands of years ago, alcohol didn't get you drunk and then some guy went "This shit will definitely fuck you up if you drink enough of it".

I get the idea, but I'll consider your example invalid.

Give someone booze, and tell them it's soda - it'll still fuck them up.

That's because it's a physical response by the body to chemicals that it's not equipped to deal with in large quantities.

However, give someone soda, and tell them it's booze and there is a possibility that they'll get drunk because they believe they will.

But they'll have to be 100% certain that the soda you've given them is a hard beverage - which probably means you'll have to flavour it to taste like one too.

 

The reason I consider that example invalid is because alcohol will fuck-up even people that don't know about it's effects.

People have been getting drunk for as long as alcoholic beverages have existed.

 

To refine the concept without using an irrelevant example:

Anything that's a universally accepted "fact" is only absolute because we believe it is.

 

---

 

And that's why it's so hard to test if magick is real. Because no one believes it can be done anymore. And even if you really do, all you get are these vague, shallow results that might as well be a weird coincidence. And there's too many fucking coincidences.

That's the thing.

I've certainly experienced too many unusual situations for it to all just be coincidence.

 

The frustrating part is: any paranormal experiences I've were initiated subconscious thought.

When I intentionally attempt something, it fails.

Surely that's because despite knowing what I want to achieve, somewhere deep down, I don't expect it to actually happen.

Whereas, events that are triggered subconsciously don't go through the same mental scrutiny that restricts our conscious thought process.

 

Which leads to a lot of interesting (loony) questions. What is real? And what does it mean for something not to be real? Is life a dream?

I would consider something to be real when it is something that everybody can perceive.

Things that only you can perceive are part of your imagination or personal reality/world view - they do not exist in the objective "real" reality.

Everyone experiences reality with a little bit of personal bias, but the part which is the same for everyone - "the objective world" - is the only part that is truly real.

 

As far as magick goes...

It's useless if it's only going to alter your subjective reality. Meditation, regular tulpaforcing, dreaming, hypnosis, etc. all do that anyway. If that were the case, the magick would be nothing more that self-hypnosis.

For magick to serve any purpose, it would need to alter the objective reality or everyone's subjective reality.

- Either you must really change the world, or make everyone believe that you did.

 

I don't think that life is a dream - the world is too complicated and has too many problems for that to be possible.

 

...But that does bring me to an interesting concept...

When we dream, the part of the brain responsible for logic shuts down, and so, dreams can become very weird, and if you're lucid, you can pretty much do whatever you want.

When you wake up and start "thinking" again it all falls apart.

What if you could voluntarily disable that logic mechanism in the real world - would you also be able to do all the things you can only dream about in reality.

If all the speculation above has any merit, you would - but with your judgement severely impaired, you could easily end up in a dangerous situation that could bring harm to your physical body.

 

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Look at all that logic in my post - no wonder I make a terrible magician.

[Enoch327]

When the doctor tells you will feel better when you take this pill, is he using medicine, the placebo effect or both? My guess it is a chicken-or-egg scenario. We will never know because now of us were there when Jesus invented chickenkind.

[sushi]

But we can know whether it's the medicine or the placebo effect. If we instead get the doctor to say "Take this pill. It won't make you feel better, but it will prepare you for the treatment." And then two hours later, he asks if they feel better. If they don't, it was the placebo effect. If they do, it was the medicine.

 

Alternate experiment: the doctor gives the patients sugar pills saying "Take this pill and you'll feel better." If they feel better, it's the placebo effect, not the medicine, because no medicine was given.

[Argentum]

Thats not a thought form become real it is basic psychology. Like the plocebo effect your brain is a very powerful creature. You can make yourself sick by just believing it.

 

You are correct in pointing out that it is the placebo effect. However, no one really knows why the placebo effect is true. Have you ever considered that the placebo effect is simply a name for the phenomenon that the OP has pointed out? That belief shapes our reality? Perhaps we really do create false diseases and such.

 

What I am getting at is that we don't know the mechanism behind the placebo effect, and that it could be that there is a meta explanation for it.

[Enoch327]

So Jesus invented the egg and the chicken at same time. I knew he was a wizard.