oi-stein July 22, 2013 July 22, 2013 Recently, it was brought up that if we were able to *prove* tuppers exist, we could claim a million dollar prize. Any ideas on how to go about with this? Om Mani Padma Hung
Myak July 22, 2013 July 22, 2013 I don't want to be a downer, but even if you prove tulpae exist... I think it'll just show that the human brain is amazing, that we don't know enough about it. Nothing paranormal, really. Unless tulpae aren't a brain function- that's what it all comes down to. :idea:
Tulpony July 22, 2013 July 22, 2013 All I can think of is parallel processing, i.e. counting two sets of things at once (that ball test in the research thread would be good) or solving two complex math problems at once, having the tulpa prove knowledge of something the host couldn't know. And even that could possibly have other explanations. Really, aside from a specifically targeted brain scan (has anyone managed to try that?) the only way to prove to someone that tulpae exist is for them to make one themselves. Everything else can be set aside as acting, mental exercises, or split personalities. (And yes, it wouldn't say anything about them being paranormal.) BTW the title is too long, replies have to delete part of it to fit the RE: part before posting.
Dr. Faust July 22, 2013 July 22, 2013 Recently, it was brought up that if we were able to *prove* tuppers exist, we could claim a million dollar prize. Any ideas on how to go about with this? Hey! Stop stealing the Paranormal Board's thunder, bro. Just kidding, It's good that we're going to open this up to larger discussion so let's outline what'd we have to do. 1. Create a Tupper Standard, so we could more easily if our Tupper's exist. Streamline and standardize tupper creation So we need a Turing test of sorts, because really, we need a way to measure tupper development and standardize it so anyone can do it. There are efforts to do this on the research board already, so we just need to add fuel to the fire. 2. Create a Tupper Book(s) 3. Begin Media Tour I would like to address 3 and 4 together because we'll eventually need to produce this material in order to apply to the foundation (Check Item 4.1 on this page). From our efforts in step one and an additional amount of research about Tulpa, Tulpa History, Tulpa Capability, we'll be able to compile a book or two. The reason why I say books is because there might be a split such as when Fede made his method which greatly contradicts FAQman's. It's important that we let differences in opinions like these be productive as possible and only expand the community rather than divide. Two books about Tulpa will look better than one as long as we can somehow agree that both roads lead to the same result. 4. Get with Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Neuroscientists, and Philosophers to begin to try to test for Tupper Existence. Now this is where we really put our money where our mouth is and see if we can really pinpoint Tulpa activity within our brains by any means necessary. We need to set a baseline to establish what it's like to have no Tulpa and then show what it is like to have Tulpa and prove that we really do have a secondary and perhaps tertiary consciousness within us. Now, it's important that we only try to prove they exist and not how or why so this way the Tulpa phenomenon still remains occult, paranormal, and supernatural. 5. Contact James Randi Foundation before too much Scientific Data can be collected (so it is still by definition Paranormal) and collect money right at the peak of this phenomenon. It is most likely that four and five will have to be done simultaneously but only when we've found out how third parties can confirm our different consciousnesses. Let me address different concerns before I conclude this post. Posted by Myak - Today 03:03 AM I don't want to be a downer, but even if you prove tulpae exist... I think it'll just show that the human brain is amazing, that we don't know enough about it. Nothing paranormal, really. Unless tulpae aren't a brain function- that's what it all comes down to. You're not thinking of the term paranormal but rather supernatural. Paranormal only implies that the object, entity or knowledge is beyond current scientific knowledge and is not being actively studied. I think we can agree that Tulpa are not being scientifically studied and therefore can also agree it is paranormal. However, I'd also make the argument that by certain standards, tulpa might be supernatural. This is because the known scientific knowledge and biases currently don't reflect what the human brain actually is. Of course upon clarification of what the human brain is we'll see that Tulpa aren't really supernatural, but to prove that this phenomenon currently defies today's scientific knowledge is enough to win the challenge (which is addressed in point 2.2 – As long as the JREF agrees to test you, it is agreed that your claim is paranormal, supernatural, or occult enough for the challenge) Posted by Xeare - Today 05:33 AM Tulpae themselves are not paranormal. Tulpa induced things such as telekinesis (However that'd work) would be paranormal. High level mancer's could make 1 mil off of this. Guys, les do this Before we say Tulpa are not paranormal let's just make sure that they really aren't. I don't know of who might be studying them, but I think we're the only community really interested in doing that. I remember reading about a psychology student who was interested, but was running into difficulty actually beginning the study. Also, I'm not sure if we could pull of Telekinesis because even people who are masters of Telekinesis have not been able to win the competition. I say we just find a way to prove tulpas exist and before it explodes into it's own field of study, we get James Randi to give us the 1 million dollars. In conclusion, flutterwonder is probably on the right track as to how we should prove the existence of Tulpae. You can refer to my older post on the metaphysical board as to why Tulpa are paranormal, supernatural and occult. This is a very good opportunity for this community to legitimize itself and for the more ambitious to make a name for themselves should that be their wish. The first step is to create a Turing Test within the community and begin standardizing the creation process (could this be return hour counts?). Whatever is decided, just realize that it is very possible to win this challenge even with something as simple as a Tulpa who acts as a mindvoice.
Dr. Faust July 23, 2013 July 23, 2013 Case and point. This guy has the right idea. I was just being a bit sarcastic, as should have been obvious by that last line. However, when I said "Tulpas aren't paranormal" I meant "I think that their actual nature (that we currently do not know) isn't so much paranormal, but something that would make a ton of sense if we actually researched it properly". Also, if we can get the million dollar prize, how would we divide it up? You know, I'm not the smartest cookie but I do try sound like I am. I don't easily pick up on sarcasm like that for a combination of reasons, the biggest being that I think telekinesis probably exists in some form. So I apologize for just quickly putting you in the immature paranormal subscriber box, but I am a bit of Mulder so I thought you were being completely serious (and I should have been clued in by your misspelling, I'm sorry). Also, you're probably confusing paranormal with supernatural. Paranormal is defined by the current understanding of science. Paranormal at one point was alchemy. Alchemy is now chemistry and very normal. Ghosts, angels and demons are paranormal now, because we simply can't prove them but understanding Tulpa may be a step in the right direction. Supernatural is phenomenon which seems like a big fuck you to the laws of nature no matter how well we understand the laws, it just violates them. I believe that most supernatural phenomenon is most likely also paranormal because similar to Napoleon Hill I think nature has inviolable laws. However, like Merleau-Ponty I don't think we'll ever be able to fully describe what those laws are. To get back on a productive conversation, we'll split up the money based off of two things: Improving the tulpa.info community If we receive this money, we'll need to set up tulpa.info well and make sure we give back a little to the community at large, because we don't want to be self-serving assholes who steal for a short term gain. The reason why we don't want to be assholes for short term gain is because if we are nice people who stick with the community, we stand to gain more money and ultimately feed the greed which is fueling us to undertake this endeavor in the first place. Paying people for their work. We'll have to figure out how to pay everyone for their work because no one should work for free. There are people who should be compensated for their research, for their writing, for their willingness to experiment, for their help with organizing the media blitz. Frankly, the JREF pay out from the 1 million dollar check shouldn't be the focus because if we do this properly, the real money will be in the copyrights and patents of our Tulpa material. Step 2 from my prior post is a very necessary step and we need books and videos in order to get to the preliminary testing from the JREF. We can make money off of this phenomenon with or without the JREF and when people wake up and realize they have an innate ability to talk to "God or The Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever they please," we can make some serious bank, more than the 1 million dollars from the society. That society check is simply going to be when we know that we've been accepted as a legitimate community. The real money is going to be from changing the game at the Barnes and Noble new age section (Please direct your attention to the book and movie grossing on this page). So if you want money stop thinking like a zero (sorry zero, couldn't resist). We can all contribute something and those interested and capable can make something of it. We just start simply. Take notes when we can. Help out whoever we can. Take notes on them. Compare notes. Get someone to compile all our notes. Standardize our notes. Standardize our methods. Find better tests for tulpa sentience. Then begin testing the waters with some ebooks.
waffles July 23, 2013 July 23, 2013 Forget it. The JREF aren't going to pay anyone anything over tulpas. They are scientifically explainable: head voices and hallucinations are nothing new, nor is personality switching or anything else. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick when you read "paranormal" as "not covered by modern science" exactly, because really the JREF is full of people with common sense and aren't going to give you a million dollars just because there isn't a precise, widely-accepted theory. And your efforts are noble but let's be honest; there is no good way of testing for a tulpa's existence and probably won't be without professional equipment which, however you look at it, is inaccessible. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "copyrights and patents of our Tulpa material" either. But yeah, if anyone wants to write a book about a group of people on the internet making head voices then be my guest. I just doubt that anyone would care. You should bear in mind that tulpas as we see them now aren't really too difficult to explain. They aren't exactly mystical, and pretty much everything that we see as part of the phenomenon has a precedent elsewhere.
Dr. Faust July 23, 2013 July 23, 2013 Forget it. The JREF aren't going to pay anyone anything over tulpas. They are scientifically explainable: head voices and hallucinations are nothing new, nor is personality switching or anything else. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick when you read "paranormal" as "not covered by modern science" exactly, because really the JREF is full of people with common sense and aren't going to give you a million dollars just because there isn't a precise, widely-accepted theory. And your efforts are noble but let's be honest; there is no good way of testing for a tulpa's existence and probably won't be without professional equipment which, however you look at it, is inaccessible. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "copyrights and patents of our Tulpa material" either. But yeah, if anyone wants to write a book about a group of people on the internet making head voices then be my guest. I just doubt that anyone would care. You should bear in mind that tulpas as we see them now aren't really too difficult to explain. They aren't exactly mystical, and pretty much everything that we see as part of the phenomenon has a precedent elsewhere. Hold on here, don't sink the boat before we've gotten ashore. In regards to the JREF We'll never know if the JREF will test us or not unless we at least make it to stage 5 of the plan and that's going to take a lot of work just to get there. And if at the point that we do get there and they don't test us, we should already have enough steam that we don't need them anyway. The reason why I use such a strict definition of the word paranormal is because the JREF website itself states, "The JREF will pay US$1,000,000 (One Million US Dollars) ("The Prize") to any person who demonstrates any psychic, supernatural, or paranormal ability under satisfactory observation." Paranormal and Supernatural are both included so that maybe my mundane idea of paranormal could be enough to get our foot in the door. It even states on another page that if the phenomenon is later fully explained by science, the money is not rescinded (item 2.2) This will essentially become a very complex magic trick in which we have to make the tulpa phenomenon as paranormal as possible (not hard to do as this is not a common occurrence) and kind of convince them that we are paranormal before they convince themselves otherwise. So before we say what the JREF will do and won't do, why don't we just sit here for a minute and think about how they could accept our theory. Also, I realize we don't have professional equipment yet. That will take connections and money. Hopefully after Step 2 and 3 we'll have enough sway to begin testing with actual scientists, like I've intended. We won't have professional equipment from the start and this isn't all going to happen with a few weeks. This will take months at the shortest and realistically a couple of years. However, the amount of dedication, time and effort it will take is a good indicator that this might be something worth doing, the same way tulpae are not created overnight. I know that tulpas aren't mystical, otherworldly beings but that's why I know we'd be able to prove them. We walk a fine-line to be considered paranormal enough to be tested by the JREF but I do sincerely believe we could do it. In regards to the copyrights and patents of tulpae I'm not sure we can patent tulpae, I'd have to actually look into that aspect of the law but I know how copyright works. The copyright just means that we'll make money when we sell books about Tulpae. Just because we got the knowledge for free doesn't mean everyone will because not everyone will want to dig around the bottom of the internet, read through posts by Bronies, and try to come to terms with the story of Glitchthe3rd. This is where we do everyone the favor and clean up the information, make it accessible, and package it for them in a neat little book or movie which is purchased for $25.38 American currency. Your doubt only comes from your familiarity with the subject and knowing where to get this information for free. I sincerely believe if people knew there was a way to hear voices as if they were prophets, there'd be a second coming of Religion and we'd be the ones to kick it off. Seriously, the tulpa is such an awesome and adaptable concept that I'm sure it would change the game in the New Age aisle, because I usually read a lot of those books and there is a reason why I come to this website after reading those books. This is simply the better concept, but has yet to be published. In Conclusion, if I can wrap up all the wandering thoughts of my mind, I understand your skepticism, bro. You see a lot of weakness within the tulpa phenomenon to really make it as the next big thing because it seems so mundane. However, that's the biggest strength we have and the reason why we could actually be the first one's win the million dollars. The fact that all that is happening within our minds can be explained by science is preferable. However, we shouldn't act like it's all been explained or this is as normal as learning to play the piano. This is an occult-like activity if not an actual occult activity. There is little scientific data available and even our Research Board does little to advance what knowledge we do have to the Scientific community (Granted I don't spend much time there, but I don't think I've ever seen anything over there that seems too scientific). I say the collaboration, excitement and output that would come out of an attempt to win the JREF challenge would only help the community no matter how much of a long shot we may have of winning that million dollar check. Even without any significant amount of money, it'd be fun to try to get through steps 1, 2, 3 and possibly 4. I think we could all have a lot of fun trying this out and at the very least it would help those involved and affected by our efforts to get into the Tulpa.info community.
waffles July 23, 2013 July 23, 2013 We'll never know if the JREF will test us or not unless we at least make it to stage 5 of the plan Why don't you just email them and ask right now? I'm not sure we can patent tulpae, I'd have to actually look into that aspect of the law but I know how copyright works. The copyright just means that we'll make money when we sell books about Tulpae. No, you can't. It's not an invention and you can't copyright it either. You probably couldn't even trademark the name. And you can make money selling books without copyright; it just means that other people can sell books as well. Not that you'd make any money selling books anyway. I sincerely believe if people knew there was a way to hear voices as if they were prophets, there'd be a second coming of Religion Making Yourself Hear Voices: The Book How exactly is this so amazing? I think we could all have a lot of fun trying this out and at the very least it would help those involved and affected by our efforts to get into the Tulpa.info community. What you're suggesting is that someone make a new-age book and sell it. Now, someone can do that if they want but if you think that it will help anyone in a significant way then you're mistaken.
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