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Why warn people off tulpamancy?
#1
1. If somebody loses interest before a tulpa is formed, they're basically making a character, no different than a character for a short story or an RPG. Stopping is not unethical.

2. If somebody does manage to make a tulpa and their life situation or motivation is such that they can't maintain them, then dormancy is a valid and humane solution for both of them.

A. Because we know tulpas don't die
B. Even if they weren't mature, the vast majority of them survive unaffected
C. Only in systems where the belief system is that they'll degrade, they degrade.

So in any case, two things:

i. We shouldn't have to warn people that it's a 'huge responsibility'.

ii. We shouldn't worry or guilt people. We should be kind and clear about this.

Please weigh in, let's settle it if we can.

[Dashie] Just because they have a personality and perspective, doesn't mean they get equal rights. In the same way, if they don't behave, they can be rehabilitated, but until then they're safe to be put on ice.

This is a system decision. This is our choice to make if we need to protect our family.

As far as I'm concerned, if someone comes on wanting to make a tulpa, do it, by all means try it, but we see others guilting them about it; it's a pointless warning.

Tulpas don't die, we see this again and again. Honestly they'll do whatever your belief system thinks they do, but change the belief system and all of a sudden they're back, it's not a miracle, you can't easily kill memories, and this is where we're stored in dormancy.

Along those lines, if someone doesn't get far enough to have a mature tulpa, and they stop, that's a system choice. Even if the system that's left is a singlet. They can start right back up again later, it's not a big deal. Anyone who puts their only mature tulpa into dormancy, indefinitely, for any personal reason,  shouldn't be condemned or considered having done an immoral act.

There are plenty of immoral acts left, so save those pitchforks and torches.
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#2
The idea that putting a tulpa in dormancy (especially for probably years or indefinitely) is cruel is an old belief in this community. I've not seen many reports of tulpas who "suffered in dormancy" in recent years compared to back then. Ironically, inversely, "tulpa rights" are more touted than ever before and these days the simple idea that you may be refusing your sentient-being their "right" to exist and interact with the world can upset people.

More appropriate "warning-off"s of tulpamancy are due to the possibly long-standing effects on someone's life for if they do stick around. Even someone who will eventually love their tulpas and fully accept them as a part of their life, should perhaps at some time prior be made aware they may have to ~"deal with" being plural for a large part of their life. It's not so simple and clean for every system.

I don't have particularly strong feelings towards "warning people off" tulpamancy otherwise. Best not to make it sound scary, but I'd like to think the people who will be helped most by making a tulpa end up pretty sure it's something they want to do or try. Though I'm only talking about the forum and no other communities, nor even necessarily the Discord, where this might be a bigger problem.
Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#3
When a person appears to be particularly gullible, prone to "fantastically minded thinking", and/or appears to be very young or mentally ill, I tend to believe it's a good idea to warn them off. In general, I think you need a strong sense of reason and understanding of yourself before you start something like tulpamancy.

Side effects of lacking this trait may result in:

Escapism.

Too many tulpas due to considering intrusive thoughts as tulpa.

Hostile tulpa or tulpa created from negative intrusive thoughts.

Tales of stories involving their tulpa that appear incredibly in depth or detailed and "fantastic" which mislead the average newcomer into expecting similar experiences.

It also opens up the community to cult-like figures building up groups of people who aren't prone to critical thought and telling them what they want to hear, manipulating them, and so on and so forth.
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#4
Tewi (the wise) Wrote:More appropriate "warning-off"s of tulpamancy are due to the possibly long-standing effects on someone's life for if they do stick around. Even someone who will eventually love their tulpas and fully accept them as a part of their life, should perhaps at some time prior be made aware they may have to ~"deal with" being plural for a large part of their life. It's not so simple and clean for every system.

Can you appreciate the idea that a culture of a community can affect the outcome of a system? Let's face it, the spiritualists community has 'spirit guides' and 'angels' and they are thoughtforms. We can honestly say Ashley is our spirit guide and I consult with four angels now. They work themselves into a lather over there about bad energy and demons. So, if we make it seem like it's a big deal with problems ahead, some impressionable youths may get the idea that it's supposed to happen that way. There's a good possibility that it's a self-fulfilling placebo prophecy.

Reg (The Legendary) Wrote:[stuff that is so very specific that it can't be anything but true]

Reg, much respect to you, we are honored to have you post. Tell me, do you know from a first paragraph that someone is mentally ill? This is a remarkable gift if so.

The second part of your post, all those nasty side effects, well, wouldn't it make a lot more sense, especially given the first part of your post, to educate and warn them about exactly that? Not to be wary of tulpamancy, let's face it, they're going to do whatever they want, but to be careful of [all those excellent examples you posted]?
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#5
Oh, I didn't mean internal problems with being plural. I meant social ones. Either not being able to share a part of your life with people, or having to risk what comes with doing so. Maybe your significant other in however many years just doesn't appreciate it, et cetera.

The actual possible harms from creating a tulpa are usually a case-by-case basis to judge.
Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#6
(07-20-2019, 09:05 PM)Tewi Wrote: Oh, I didn't mean internal problems with being plural. I meant social ones. Either not being able to share a part of your life with people, or having to risk what comes with doing so. Maybe your significant other in however many years just doesn't appreciate it, et cetera.

The actual possible harms from creating a tulpa are usually a case-by-case basis to judge.

I think these are related. You don't tell them it's a possibility of being a big deal, you're better off educating them that it should be kept confidential. Are you seeing the difference?

I liked the link, so, do you think that, as we've seen, people with problems are drawn to tulpamancy and many are helped, or that tulpamancy causes the problems we see?

I think it brings hope, encouragement, and a reason to live. Regardless if the host hands everything over to a tulpa, or if they narrowly avoid suicide, tulpas help. For those who are unsuccessful, and there are a few (not recently apparently) I believe there's no foul here. They'll forget about it for a while, maybe come back later when they're in a better state.

EVI will be on soon enough to give us lovely statistics I'm sure.
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#7
(07-20-2019, 09:31 PM)Bear Wrote: I think these are related. You don't tell them it's a possibility of being a big deal, you're better off educating them that it should be kept confidential.

Keeping it confidential is an opinion and not always the chosen path of an individual. Regardless, it's a weird phenomenon that could stick with you for most your life, so the weight of that isn't bad to warn people about. Though it's entirely random per person so it's not a general reason to warn away from Tulpamancy - just a general warning. I'm not sure why I said it was an appropriate "warning-off", I think that wording overstated my own meaning, that it's worth warning of.

(07-20-2019, 09:31 PM)Bear Wrote: I liked the link, so, do you think that, as we've seen, people with problems are drawn to tulpamancy and many are helped, or that tulpamancy causes the problems we see?

I absolutely do not believe tulpamancy is the root cause of just about any problem we've ever seen. It can be heavily implicit in in-system drama, but even in those cases the person was probably prone to such things. Otherwise, tulpamancy just takes the form of a symptom of the real root causes already present/potentially present in the host's brain. Not to say tulpamancy can't possibly exacerbate said problems though, hence Lumi's post in that thread.

As I said, the only real general "problem" I could think of caused directly by practicing tulpamancy is being plural at all, which again is a potential social problem to deal with. Either never telling anyone (which can cause distress of its own), or figuring out how to tell the people you want to tell and then dealing with the results. Not a reason not to make a tulpa, just something to be warned about perhaps, and the individuals can decide on their own.
Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#8
Tewi Wrote:Keeping it confidential is an opinion and not always the chosen path of the individual.

So is this reason enough for a general warning? And these instances you mentioned paint a picture of an unstable, ignorant individual with no grasp of reality and consequences. That's who we need to warn... i don't think that individual will head a warning about a raging stampede let alone this. Do you think you are reaching this individual specific minority through a blanket warning of nearly everyone?

As for the stigma of plurality, don't we have a hundred threads and surveys of that pointing to the fact that people are vastly against coming out, know exactly what's up, and only a very tiny franction of immature individuals with lofty dreams unfulfilled will ever suffer at all for the lack of warning if they were lucid enough to heed it unironically putting them a step ahead in the first place, and the only example I can think of recently was forwarned six ways and there was no reaching them regardless.

So again, does it make sense to warn at all? I think a lot of this warning borders on substantially baseless fears, masking the overwhelming benefits.

Think hard about this one, would you turn away ten lucid but skittish introverts that might have been helped with a blanket warning for a chance of one unstable and presumed to fail person to be turned away?

My point is, these warnings aren't targeted, I don't see how they can be, and the community would benefit from more involvement, and more people helped without repeating this warning over and over.
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#9
Uhhh, well it wasn't some proposal to tell every single newbie tulpamancy is dangerous, it was a mix of "When people say/warn about X, it's fine" and of the warning having its place in this thread

I don't think there's any significant sort of turning people away on the forum, and we're not qualified to talk about reddit/discord(s) etc. where I think there's a LOT of problems with how things are done - so if anything, the warnings are more appropriate there!
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#10
How is it helpful and appropriate to you, Lucilyn? Given what we've been talking about. I mean, would you recommend I warn off every new tulpamancer in general? If so what verbiage should I use?

This is for the benefit of those who read this, regardless of where they're from, and by the way, your statement about the other communities is a pretty scathing generalization without any basis in our understanding. Do you have any examples of 'problems'?
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