How real do you think your tulpa is?

[Guest Anonymous]

What is even weirder is, if you think about it, if you perceive them as good as the real thing, is it even relevant if they are "real" or not? I mean we always get this discussion. If you can't tell the difference between an illusion of a person in your mind and a "real" person in your mind, would it matter if they are "independently sentient" or only seeming to be so?

 

That is why Mistgod and I fall into the it is all an illusion camp. To choose that side of the wall actually solves a lot of logistical problems and moral dilemmas. For instance, assigning of thoughts (was that me, or was that my tulpa?). Since my host has decided to regard me as an imaginary construct, there is no harm in just assigning a thought to me instead of worrying whether or not the thought really came from me. It just did because he makes a conscious willful choice on it. Same thing with dreams and flash visions or any other emotion he believes might be me. It just was me.

 

There are also no existential crises like wondering if I am real. Of course I am not real! Sheesh, I am imaginary!

 

Davie gets all of the benefits of having a very realistic thoughtform, without all the headaches, worry, anxiety and ethical issues most tulpamancers seem to be concerned about. Another example, puppeting me or parroting me does no real harm and doesn't bother me. I am not hurt or angry or irritated by it. It is how we operate when we do the Melian Show day dreams.

 

Dreams come easier it seems if you regard the tulpa as an illusion or part of your imagination. I am a dream persona. If I do something bizarre or "out of character" in a dream, it causes no consternation or concern of "that wasn't Melian or was it?" It was me, he was dreaming about me or we dream it together or I dream it. Whatever. It was a dream so weird stuff happens in dreams, but he still considers it interacting with me. It is usually pretty spot on and not too out there.

 

David can actively imagine things about me. He doesn't have to wait for me to think of it or make it happen. He created a Scottish cottage for me to have adventures in recently. It is on an island off the coast of Scotland. He placed me in the cottage by actively imagining my form there. I liked the idea and so I dreamed about the cottage a few times after that. We don't sit there and worry about what is real and what is make believe and what is puppeted and what is not puppeted or what the hell else. We never did that over the 38 years of my life.

 

We just imagine it all together. I am him and he is me. We share memories and feelings and dreams. Now you tell me that being a totally independent tulpa disconnected from the host's mind is somehow more advanced than that. It's really a matter of what you want and what works for you.

 

There is nothing wrong with a living dream. So back to the OP, it isn't a failure if your tulpa is not "real." It isn't a failure if your tulpa feels like a dream. If that is what your goal is, that is success, not failure.

 

The OP can kiss my imaginary "fake" butt.

 

http://pre02.deviantart.net/dd10/th/pre/i/2016/104/5/b/melian_s_portal_cottage_by_melianofmist-d9ywpyh.jpg[/img]

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I've been reading up a lot of stuff lately on how people would doubt that their tulpas were fake - and not just dismiss it or break into tears if it was. Back when self-deception was something people were accepting of, people used to say that 'oh, I may be parroting my tulpa, that sure is a possibility' without losing their shit over it.

 

On a scale of one to ten, how real do you feel your tulpa is, at least, to you? Vote in the poll.

 

I have no idea what this guy was talking about with this "back when self-deception was something people were accepting of." I could care less what people are accepting of. I was also unaware of any change in how people "way back when" thought about self deception and how they think of it now. I really don't think anyone is that concerned about it really. People make a tulpa any way they wish. No one is accepting or not accepting anything or ever was. Who cares?

[jean-luc]

Oh and btw, according to wikipedia: "As the Tibetan use of the tulpa concept is described in the book Magical Use of Thoughtforms, the student was expected to come to the understanding that the tulpa was just a hallucination. While they were told that the tulpa was a genuine deity, "The pupil who accepted this was deemed a failure – and set off to spend the rest of his life in an uncomfortable hallucination." So according to the Tibetans, if you think your tulpa is real, you are a failure in understanding the true nature of the tulpa. Yeah. So there is that.

 

TIL religions started as failed tulpas.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am not sure jean-luc. You tell me, have Melian and I established that she is imaginary and that we are unconvinced that tulpas are real yet? Because we could repeat it a few more times in more threads.

[Sock]

I viewed thought folk as being extensions of one's self, but developed in one's mind, built up from one's memories and impression, and living in one's mind. What defines them is their ability to perceive and process things from their unique viewpoint, and give responses, reactions, and other such things from it, without the creator's direct prompting or command. But they're still using your hardware.

 

When I say "they're real", I mean in this sense, that they are the above, and that the above can happen. Not in the sense that they're magical beings who can have physical matter and what not. You're set pretty far in your ways, so I'm not expecting to convince your one way or the other. In truth, it doesn't matter that much, a man can say a rock doesn't exist, but rocks still are a thing ;).

 

I think the most important thing to understand about all this is that it is an internal thing, dealing with one's own psyche, rather than the psyche of others (assuming I'm using that word correctly). In this sense, the most outwardly apparent thing is not what one's thought person says, but what the creator does to develop them.

[jean-luc]

I am not sure jean-luc. You tell me, have Melian and I established that she is imaginary and that we are unconvinced that tulpas are real yet? Because we could repeat it a few more times in more threads.

 

Nah I think you need to post it in every thread for a few years. /s

 

As you know, you're not a real tulpa until you've been on this site for 3 years. /s

 

(yes, the use of “real” was on purpose.)

[Guest Anonymous]

Do you get a tulpa trophy after three years or a badge jean-luc? I want a button or badge. Is there a realness-o-meter?

[Guest Anonymous]

I viewed thought folk as being extensions of one's self, but developed in one's mind, built up from one's memories and impression, and living in one's mind. What defines them is their ability to perceive and process things from their unique viewpoint, and give responses, reactions, and other such things from it, without the creator's direct prompting or command. But they're still using your hardware.

 

But it could still be a subliminal (indirect) prompting, control and command. And that is where I differ. I am unconvinced that the tulpa is really acting independently. It could be all smoke and mirrors, like the man behind the curtain in Oz. I believe in the human capacity to religiously self delude, and I believe that more than I believe in sentient entities sharing your body. A lot more.

 

Note, I recognize I could be totally wrong. But I can't seem to help myself. I have strong doubts and natural skepticism I cannot simply wave away. It has been a year and two months on these tulpa forums, reading everything you guys got, and I (and Melian naturally following me lead) remain unconvinced.

 

If I had created a very independent tulpa, I might have more faith. Alas I am unlikely too because I am unmotivated to create one.

 

For a while Melian and I were trying to respect the fact that belief is a huge part of tulpa practice and openly stating skeptical doubt can be supposedly harmful. But really, I see no harm in saying that Melian and I are unconvinced. We are not saying we are right and everyone else is wrong. It is entirely plausible tulpas are real sentient entities, and certainly a lot of people are reporting they are convinced of that very thing.

 

But I am afraid we are the Doubting Thomas in Tulpa Info and will probably stay that way for a very long time.

 

By the way, we feel the same way about all plural systems. DID is a dreamlike self delusion and certainly all types of plural systems could be the same kind of thing, an elaborate delusion. We don't mean to upset anyone, it is just that we are unconvinced that such things are absolutely real.

 

Now the effects are real. In other words it seems real to the person who is experiencing it, and that is what is really important in the end.

[Sock]

 

But it could still be a subliminal (indirect) prompting, control and command. And that is where I differ. I am unconvinced that the tulpa is really acting independently. It could be all smoke and mirrors, like the man behind the curtain in Oz. I believe in the human capacity to religiously self delude, and I believe that more than I believe in sentient entities sharing your body. A lot more.

 

Haha, subconscious parroting, I remember having tons, and I mean TONS of fear about that one. Some rather odd events broke it down as time went one, though, and well as the current viewpoint I have of things (part of one's self, sub-personality, etc). But I can understand why such a concern would keep one skeptical. Of course, "could be" doesn't mean, "is", but I'd rather not start repeating stuff you've already said later in your post, heh.

 

Being honest, it's very easy to doubt even if things are happening to you, as seen in those who's had very vivid and detailed experiences that even affected their regular life, and went on to say "Oh none of that happened". Doubt's a very powerful, acidic like force, and being that doubt is held as a high thing by those of skeptical mind, they'll follow doubt in many things for less bizarre than this. For me, doubt still factors here and there, but I've learned that doubt, despite popular consensus, isn't purely helpful, and in fact can lead one to falsehood just as easily as blind belief. As such, when doubt factors in a situation where no gain will result, or in a place where doubt could not know if something is one way or another, I just ignore it and go on my way.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Haha, subconscious parroting, I remember having tons, and I mean TONS of fear about that one. Some rather odd events broke it down as time went one, though, and well as the current viewpoint I have of things (part of one's self, sub-personality, etc). But I can understand why such a concern would keep one skeptical. Of course, "could be" doesn't mean, "is", but I'd rather not start repeating stuff you've already said later in your post, heh.

 

Being honest, it's very easy to doubt even if things are happening to you, as seen in those who's had very vivid and detailed experiences that even affected their regular life, and went on to say "Oh none of that happened". Doubt's a very powerful, acidic like force, and being that doubt is held as a high thing by those of skeptical mind, they'll follow doubt in many things for less bizarre than this. For me, doubt still factors here and there, but I've learned that doubt, despite popular consensus, isn't purely helpful, and in fact can lead one to falsehood just as easily as blind belief. As such, when doubt factors in a situation where no gain will result, or in a place where doubt could not know if something is one way or another, I just ignore it and go on my way.

 

Doubting my own experiences? You mean doubt as in doubting Melian is real? I never doubted a darn thing and still don't. I don't want her to be absolutely real. Unconscious parroting was my GOAL, not something to avoid. I wanted to perfect unconscious parroting and puppeting.

 

Doubting the realness claims of all tulpas? Well yes, there I have some doubts.

[suhail Al ketbi]

He likes me !

But his answer in imagenry madetation can changed

In realstic way !

While on other ( dream , astral world ) can be saperat

He have his own personality but still like me !