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Jean-luc's thoughts on all the things people argue about.


jean-luc

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Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Although I would ask, can you not love something/someone even if they're not sentient? I know there are people who would say they love their dog, but I doubt you'll find them arguing about the dog's sentience.

My host is familiar with that kind of love, she obsesses over things like shows and her work. Which are not sentient. But in order to love something, you must love its essence. With a show, it is easy. What you see is what you get. With her work, it is harder. To understand its essence is to understand why it is important. If that importance was fake, or manufactured, it would be devastating. With a person, it is hardest. What you love is their soul. Their personality. Their realness. It is really hard to describe. And if that is fake, it is really devastating.

 

Why not? Isn't "reality" just a concept of truth in an attempt to bring the things we percieve into a consistent image of the world? If something can only be observed by one brain, then that brain's experiences define the reality of that something.

That is interesting. My host has met this belief before. What she'd say is something like, then the thing that you call reality is different than the thing she calls reality. You may not believe what we think is reality even exists. A thing which fundamentally exists absolutely and unchangingly. We do believe what you call reality exists. There are lots of people out there who try to make sense of things, and what you describe is one of those ways to try to make sense of things.

 

Huh? I don't follow.

I think the term is magical thinking. Basically, uh, spooky action at a distance. Like how if you dance in just the right way you can make it rain. Basically, the rules that govern causality in the universe can be one of two ways. Basic, simple, understandable rules of physics, much like the ones Einstein and Newton put forward, or weird, esoteric rules that don't make sense. The latter we would regard as magic. An example would be a rule where you can change the truth of something locally by simply believing it. This is a magic rule of physics.

 

To understand our thinking here, consider that we do not subscribe to dualism. This means that we believe the brain and mind exist physically. This means the brain and mind are bound by the rules of physics, and operate by the rules of physics.

 

To be clear, we are not saying that magic does not exist at this time.

 

Really? Like what? I'm sure everyone's different, but I'm curious what you've found easier.

I have a list of three currently.

 

1)Play chess with yourself. Without letting one side win.

2)Pin yourself to the floor.

3)Channel a different personality while multitasking, without making any mistakes.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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[*]Inside the brain, belief is reality.

[*]It doesn't matter whether a tulpa is sentient or not.

[*]For many people, their "God"(s) are thoughtforms similar to tulpas.

 

 

Our system approves, for what it's worth. These three in particular are things we strongly believe.

Especially the first one... Alice has radically redefined our understanding of "reality".

Great thread, great post.

 

There's been some discussion on here between me and another user that Jamie might not actually be a tulpa. The fact that I instinctually agree with the first point on your list, but then have had experiences with Jamie that directly contradict that, make me wonder even more about the nature of Jamie's....species? I don't even know what word to use there.

 

Remember that truth is subjective to the individual. You are allowed to believe things that defy logic, and even things that contradict each other.

As a wise woman once told me, "F@%* it." There's a part of me that thinks my "tulpas" might be leftover shards of personality from past lives... and another part of me that realizes how stupid that is. Both thoughts are true, both thoughts are false. Ya gotta get all new age ZEN with it bruh.

 

Reading through the rest of the posts, I am once again confronted by logic worship.

Why do you place so much stock in it? Understanding an emotion does not change the way it FEELS.

I admit, it's important to try to understand things... but it's NOT more important than experiencing them first hand.

Let's say you achieve complete omniscience. Then what?

To what end? To control the universe? To build your own? What is the end game?

There seems to be this unspoken goal humanity is working towards, maybe it's just a higher form of survival. But again, people don't seem to take the time to think it out.

Why? Fucking why? Just because, I suppose. Perhaps we're just hardwired to be obsessed with "the truth".

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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Reading through the rest of the posts, I am once again confronted by logic worship.

Why do you place so much stock in it? Understanding an emotion does not change the way it FEELS.

I admit, it's important to try to understand things... but it's NOT more important than experiencing them first hand.

Let's say you achieve complete omniscience. Then what?

To what end? To control the universe? To build your own? What is the end game?

There seems to be this unspoken goal humanity is working towards, maybe it's just a higher form of survival. But again, people don't seem to take the time to think it out.

Why? Fucking why? Just because, I suppose. Perhaps we're just hardwired to be obsessed with "the truth".

 

Perhaps a little off topic buuuttt:

 

It makes sense to me. You can only make sensible decisions if you know what's really going on. If you thought the weather was controlled by a man in the sky, you might ask the man to kindly not rain when you go to the store. If you know the "truth", that the weather is predictable, you might ask your friend who stares at the weather a lot whether it will rain or not, and plan your shopping time accordingly. Therefor what people are seeking is useful knowledge. Completely false knowledge is useless, even sometimes detrimental. If the weatherman tells you that it is not going to rain, and then halfway to the store you get caught in the rain, you're going to be pretty mad. I think this applies to the caveman as well, knowing what berries are poisonous and such. That is why we're hardwired to be obsessed with "the truth".

 

As for the "unspoken goal", everyone has a little different worldview, but I think humanity as a whole has to goal of simply surviving as long as possible. (perhaps not as simple as it sounds...) I don't know about a "higher form" of survival, simply elongating it. Not I do not mean elongating the life of each individual human (that is a secondary goal), just as there are always cells diing and forming constantly within my body, society has a constant stream of deaths and births.

 

Does that make sense?

I don't visit as often as I used to. If you want me to see something, make sure to quote a post of mine or ping me @jean-luc

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Does that make sense?

 

I'm sure it does to most, just not to me.

Either we face heat death, or some unknowable purpose set forth by a god we can't even understand.

In either case, what am I? Just a tiny little ant.

No matter how you slice it... I ain't shit. My search for control, for meaning, for purpose... always comes up short.

So you know what? Screw it. Why even think about it? I'm gonna drink and be merry. And come what may. COME WHAT MOTHER FLIPPIN MAY.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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In either case, what am I? Just a tiny little ant.

No matter how you slice it... I ain't shit.

 

And? Who says humans are any more important than ants? Well, humans are who, since they're the only animals that create "meaning". Not my point though (actually it will be in a moment). Why does the rest of the world matter while you do not? Are you a lesser life form? Because as far as I can tell billions of zeros would still add up to zero. And I can guarantee you "the rest of the world" is not a collective entity, it's just a bunch of other zeros (or to you, 0.000000001s?) that would consider you a part of the whole that they are not. So unless you worship Bill Gates or the Illuminati and believe they have a divine right to inherit humanity, I think you've got a major issue of perspective.

 

Pretending anything exists outside of you is pretty short-sighted in the first place. Absolutely positively impossible to verify. The only thing you can be absolutely sure of is your own existence to yourself, because it's the only thing you can experience. So you should probably stick to that rather than the disempowering concept of being an ant.

 

If you want to be really realistic, none of what humans care about means anything without us anyways. Some would call that nihilism but I call it "no-freaking-duh". Humans create meaning. That's why we always disagree with each other, because none of us are living or can live objectively. Without humans in the picture things are relatively objective. Unless you take the perspective of another cognizant animal I guess. But they sure don't worry about their place in the universe on a philosophical level. They just live. And die too I guess. But without anything alive in the first place to recognize death, it wouldn't "mean" anything either.

 

Since I'm basically talking nonsense given our reality is exclusively from a human perspective, I'll stop trying to figure out what I'm trying to say and just say - life is what you make it. You can think you're an ant if you want. You can think being an ant is an important role in the greater scheme of things. You can think you're the center of the universe and all things revolve around you (it sure seems like it when you're all you know), or you can be a real nihilist and forsake creating meaning at all.

 

Though from my perspective that's just another choice someone made on what life means to them.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Hmm, well, How about a third opinion. If we create our own meaning, that is true nihilism, of the existential type. But meaning is not what people seem to think it is, which is some vague term that has something to do with importance. Meaning is the result of interpreting information. So life has inherent meaning.

1) Each cell has an interpreter that reads its own DNA over and over.

2) Each chemical bond follows the rules of physics. This is a system of interpretation of the current state of the universe.

3) Each human mind interprets the world around them.

 

And another third position. What is with all this logic worship? Hahahaha! A fair cop.

 

My host is religiously devoted to the idea of acquiring and preserving and understanding information. Information worship. And I am an initiate.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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...the disempowering concept of being an ant.

 

The only thing that's ever disempowered me is this pointless search for "truth".

It's exhausting and maddening. I choose instead to take what peace I can from the moment.

That's what I mean by drink and be merry...

 

Ecclesiastes 5:18 (King Solomon speaking here. Reputed to be the wisest man that ever lived)

Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion.

 

I am an ant: I shall eat my nectar, build my little hill of dirt and defend it as best I can.

 

My host is religiously devoted to the idea of acquiring and preserving and understanding information. Information worship. And I am an initiate.

 

I am devoted to the idea of making some kick-ass movies, making enough money to try and help fix a few things, and finding a meatbag to love and have some children with. How's that for a religion?

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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Ecclesiastes 5:18 (King Solomon speaking here. Reputed to be the wisest man that ever lived)

I am sure king solomon was wise for his day. But it is the philosophy, not the philosopher one should listen to.

 

I am devoted to the idea of making some kick-ass movies, making enough money to try and help fix a few things, and finding a meatbag to love and have some children with. How's that for a religion?

Sure. I'll call that the human condition religion.

 

Do you consider any of those activities sacred?

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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I am sure king solomon was wise for his day. But it is the philosophy, not the philosopher one should listen to.

 

Sure. I'll call that the human condition religion.

 

Do you consider any of those activities sacred?

 

Ironically, yes. I think sex can be a sacred thing. It is the closest two meatbags can ever come to truly being one.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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