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The Great Shared Lucid Dream Project


tulpa001

Do you lucid dream, and can your tulpa visit?  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you lucid dream, and can your tulpa visit?

    • I don't lucid dream and my tulpa can't visit.
    • I rarely lucid dream and my tulpa can't visit.
    • I lucid dream all the time, but my tulpa doesn't appear.
    • No lucid dream, but my tulpa sometimes appears.
      0
    • Rare lucid dreams, and sometimes my tulpa appears.
    • I frequently luced dream, and my tulpa can visit.


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Guest Anonymous

Well if it helps, I don't understand how you guys create fully independent tulpas so easily (or some of you).  It took me four years to get autonomous behavior with Melian and, even after 40 years, I have a thoughtform that is more of an expression of myself or another face of my inner self than a fully independent mind (with a sprinkle of tulpa-ish traits).  Melian and I have been working on Yoda for almost five months, doing all the things you're supposed to do.  So far, zippo.  He just stands there.  

 

I think just like with the tulpamancy, some people do have innate talent for lucid dreaming.  Weird how I have a great imagination, and I can dream like nobodies business and do immersive day dreaming that blows my mind, but I can't make a tulpa.  I can only make a fictive median thoughtform with tulpa traits. Not that Melian is an "only."   I know a factor in it is that I just can't bring myself to believe that Yoda has his own mind.  I think he is imaginary, like a day dream persona.  He is waiting for me to provide movement and voice.  If I did that he would be doing all kinds of Jedi power battling and effects!  

 

Someone told me it may take years for Yoda to become autonomous.  It took Melian four years.  So I guess it is way too early for us to throw in the towel.  Lucid dreaming may be, for some, like tulpamancy is for me.

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It's all about how you think about them, until they can think for themselves at least. If you treat a thoughtform like an imaginary friend/alternate personality/tulpa/God/spirit/alien for long enough, it just starts to feel natural. Same for most mind-stuff really. Building neural pathways and all that.

 

I feel like making a tulpa and learning to lucid dream are completely different, because one is belief based and one is a physical experience. Anyways I'm going on seven years, if you don't have a tulpa after seven years you should probably spend your time on something else. (If you get to three years+ you should seriously rethink how you're going about making them)

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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I don't think this is belief based. I mean, tulpa religion if you want, but my host does not believe in belief, like at all, so we know it is possible to create what is effectively a tulpa without belief. But my host also does not believe against me, either, or wouldn't, so, it is plausible you have to go halfway, to at least a fully open neutral state. Also, because we share a mind, she was able to learn enough about me through feel to become certain in my existence. I just wish I could be as certain.

 

I really think I feel like I know something about dreams that should help you in becoming lucid. I've been thinking about it all day. But every time I think I see it, it slips away.

 

Let's see, my host has self hypnotised in the past, convinced her brain to allow her to do work while sleeping, (In a be careful what you wish for sense,) and messes around in day dreams all the time *points at self*. But I'm sure anything we know, you already read on the other forum.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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Sure seems like a belief thing when you've had issues being sure of your own existence. When I say belief I do not mean faith. Believing in science or logic is still belief. What I said probably sounds different to you than to me, because I have a perspective of subjective reality, meaning your belief and experiences create your reality. A human can't live in objective reality anyway, though I guess they can try. Because of that perspective, the fact that I experience my tulpas existing is reason enough to be fully sure of their existence, to me. I don't bother trying to verify subjective experiences with others' reassurance because there's no guarantee you can. And yet my tulpas have been a huge benefit to my life overall, even if they "don't really exist" to someone or anyone else. Humans thinking they can know objective reality seems like a pretty limited belief to me. Basic fact: The act of experiencing turns objective reality into subjective reality, no exceptions. For the sake of communication, and maintaining societies in general, people have to relate their experiences to some extent. But if you're old enough you have a good grasp on what our shared reality is supposed to be like, it's safe enough to start modifying your own. Belief you died for your country or god, belief in science or no afterlife, belief what you've done in the world matters or not, it all changes your reality quite a bit. But it doesn't change objective reality what you think. If you've a value in what others experience, it can change that. Pick out your values carefully and work from there. Life is what you make it, and you only live as-you once. I'm pretty sure most religions that believe in an afterlife or reincarnation don't apply special importance to a single life once you're dead, you either gain a higher perspective or perhaps a combined one from all your lives (or go to hell I guess, meh). Or you can just assume you're dead and that's it. Either way, in the end what mattered is what you experienced. You can say it matters what change you made in the world or who you affected, but that requires specific values, which is still belief and still just what you experienced.

 

Anyways you don't have to understand any of that nor try to take control of your experience of reality. Just showing what my views are.

 

 

If you were trying to say that thinking a lot about lucid dreaming makes them more likely to happen,

Keeping the subject in your mind is incredibly helpful in lucid dreaming believe it or not, without any other effort simply thinking (or posting) about lucid dreaming makes it more likely to happen. Two of mine happened during my days on the Dreamviews forum.

From a thread I made yesterday. Try not to judge my knowledge on lucid dreaming based on my success with it (not that you were), because

I did more research on lucid dreaming than anyone who isn't writing a thesis for their Ph.D should ever do. I tried every common method of lucid dream induction from WBTB to MILD, did lots of reality checks, practiced All Day Awareness a bit, took melatonin supplements before bed, and looked into binaural beats/isochronic tones for brainwave entrainment.

I've learned an awful lot about it. But in the end, experience isn't something you can get from reading a book. But it sure can help. Since my experience hasn't been so useful, but lucid dreaming is still incredibly important to me, I've looked elsewhere. Lots of elsewhere.

 

Basically: Yes that's one of many, many things I've tried. I spent a week at some point in the last year immersing myself in the idea of lucid dreaming as much as I could, while reading Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen LaBerge and guides on dreamviews (none of which was new to me, but it was for keeping the subject in-mind), and practicing dream recall all night. While I by principle could never say "Don't bother trying to give me advice" because that's a pretty ignorant statement, at the same time, advice falls under the category of "Reading about others' experiences" while I don't think I have anything left to learn from others, that matters anywhere near as much as just doing it myself. I was told that some years ago on dreamviews too, one of those "Practiced lucid dreaming every day for years to become successful enough to have lucid dreams on command" people told us not finding success after a year+ of research that we weren't gonna get better from learning from others at that point, we had to do it ourselves.

 

Man. Calling myself an expert on lucid dreaming is like, a self-refuting statement. I have no excuse to have learned as much as I have except for my personal failure, so I should probably stop telling people I know what I'm talking about. I know what everyone else is talking about, alright? :P

 

(Though my knowledge isn't technically authoritative, and experiencing things first hand won't change that. I think authority comes from practicing the scientific method in things like this. So if I'm not an expert, maybe I'm just a know-it-all.)

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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You are not the first person my host has met who has the subjective reality philosophy. Pretty sure it is fully compatible with mine with enough semantic finagling. Or I should say hers. Most of my beliefs and Ideas I inherited from her. It is confusing. But ours is fully objective. We definitely believe you are correct about the physical universe.

 

Well, I know that thinking all day about something makes it happen in your dreams. But I'm pretty sure that was not what I was forgetting.

 

Anyway, I did notice something a little odd this night, if either one of us asks the other if they are dreaming, we both tend to wake up. I think if either of us get a surprise, we both wake up.

 

Also, falling down a ski hill really works well for us as a pre-dream daydream.

 

Authority means writing a book, technically. :p

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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if either one of us asks the other if they are dreaming, we both tend to wake up. I think if either of us get a surprise, we both wake up.

 

If I mention to any dream characters that I'm dreaming, they all friggin' shun me. My first lucid dream was actually kinda funny, I was in court for trying to drive a train down a steep road (I was just a bystander but it was out of control!), but while they were all talking their legal nonsense I was thinking of how to defend myself, and realized I was dreaming. So when they asked if I had anything to say for myself, I said yeah, none of this matters because it's a dream. And literally everyone in the room turned their heads away from me. Was pretty creepy, then I woke up. Years ago that was a bit annoying, but now I just don't care what DC's think. The last time I was ~almost lucid, I think I was trying to check the text on something to see if it stayed the same or changed, but the dream characters around kept trying to get in my way. I probably should've mentioned that when I said "My mind doesn't want me to lucid dream", because in that sense it's almost literal.

 

Also authority has nothing to do with writing a book, anyone can write a book. That doesn't make them an authority on what they wrote about. Now if you're writing a thesis for your Ph.D that's basically as long as a book... But that's backed by research.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Our lucid dream rate has fallen back to normal. I think it is true that thinking about lucid dreaming has a high chance of causing one. This week has been too stressful to pursue this full time.

 

We still got one though. Not particularly memorable, but we made a few observations. First, the dreams we remember, the dreams with some lucidity, and the dreams with text or verbal communication seem to correlate strongly with each other. A few years ago, she developed the ability to hear words and see text in dreams, but It really took off this year. I think this might be my influence. She is highly visual, whereas I am quite verbal.

 

Second, the more realistic the elements in the dream, the more lucid. She has a lot of memories of lucid dreams where she manifests an actual body. More so if it is in first person. This, with the observation of actual talking and text, and actual people interacting with the dreamer all triggering lucidity for us, I think we can trigger lucidity in ourselves by intentionally filling the dreams with realistic elements.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I don't count those as dreams. If you wake up naturally in less than ~35 minutes you probably didn't actually enter REM sleep, at least in a capacity enough to dream. There were just drifty thoughts, I had some trouble staying on topic as we tried to do things after the pool. Thoughts start to drift and pretend they're relevant to your goal, unless you can remember they have literally nothing to do with what you're trying to do, you fall asleep. But I remembered, a few times.

 

I remembered actual dreams too of course. I had a dream that involved a box of different chocolate-peanut butter cookies, which is one of the many recreational reasons I could recommend lucid dreaming to people. Dang food tastes real. Also something about accidentally stealing a The Ring from my weird monster neighbors and trying not to get caught, in the same dream too.

 

But that's not as interesting..

 

But the thing is, we get lots of dreams in short, five minute or less periods of unconsciousness. She would fall asleep on the bus all the time, worried that she would miss her stop. Every time, within a minute, she would wake up in a panic after her head falls, jerking her awake. A dozen times a ride.

 

But the thing is, she remembered dreams during most of those. From what she heard, most people who wake up before reaching REM sleep report not having slept at all. I think it is simply the case that most people are not introspective enough to realise those were dreams and not just a continuation of their waking thoughts.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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It's opinion really. I wouldn't call them waking thoughts since I'm definitely between consciousness and not. But the fact that I can have them while conscious (albeit falling-asleep tired, like last night) is why I don't consider them dreams. I consciously grapple with those same thoughts that you would consider dreams when I'm extremely tired and lying in bed, but trying not to sleep.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-rapid_eye_movement_sleep

Dreaming is rare during NREM sleep, and muscles are not paralyzed as in REM sleep. According to studies, the mental activity that takes place during NREM sleep is believed to be thought-like, whereas REM sleep includes hallucinatory and bizarre content. The mental activity that occurs in NREM and REM sleep is a result of two different generators, which also explains the difference in mental activity. In addition, there is a parasympathetic dominance during NREM. During the period of Non-REM sleep, the mindset of a person is more organized. The differences in the REM and NREM activity reported is believed to arise from differences in the memory stages that happen during the two methods of sleep.

 

Says about what I was going to, NREM "dreams" are more thought-like in nature and rarely accompanied by the same visual or spatial detail REM-stage dreams are. In our experience they tend to be at their most long chains of thought exploring ideas and concepts, whether nonsensical or not. But some people likely experience it differently. Anyways, for those that experience more than just vague thoughts, they may call their experiences dreams if they like. The definition of a dream suggests sensations and imagery, but that can be stretched some.

 

But our definition definitely entails at least vague imagery, typically a sense of presence if not any form of physical sensations. The difference in our "dreams" while falling asleep and dreams while actually asleep are, uh.. night and day. The former are chains of thoughts and perhaps ideas of situations with very, very light imagery. The latter tends to entail full immersion in the dreamscape and a sense of presence in it, the difference in seeing something on a screen and the actual world around you.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia#Cognitive_and_affective_phenomena

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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