Use of the world "Real" (What it means to you)

[Vos]

To us, the realness of something doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether or not something is tangible. Instead, it's all about the effect that it has on the person who's perceiving it. Ideas can affect people greatly, but they're not things that you can see or touch.

[Solune]

First, If there is no intrinsic value, then where do valuable things get their value from? If nothing is valuable in and of itself, but something is valuable nonetheless, where did that value come from? And why is the thing the value came from not valuable? If the thing the value came from is valuable, and this is how it is capable of making the other thing valuable, where did its value come from?

 

Second, what happens to truth outside of the context of seeking it? Sure, we are searching for truth, and maybe the reason is to get control. and maybe control is an illusion. But in this thought experiment, we are not seeking it out. Merely wondering if it exists, or what it looks like. Can a truth that no one cares about still exist? Like a rock floating through space that no one will ever observe. Or a mathematical principle so esoteric no one will ever have a use for it. Or the trillionth-and-one digit of PI (I'm sure someone is interested in seeking out the trillionth digit).

 

"Intrinsic value" is the idea that a thing has worth beyond its practical usefulness to the average person.

It's basically a philosophical short-cut to explain how something can have value beyond what you might think at first.

Like a piece of art, for example. Not much you can practically do with art, but it evokes emotional responses and makes you think about stuff.

 

However, evoking emotional and intellectual responses IS practically useful. It helps prevent the stagnation of society which in turn increases humanity's chances of survival.

The only difference between the ideas of subjective and intrinsic value is your personal interpretation of what constitutes practicality.

It is our belief that all value has to be classified as subjective because of the subjective nature of existence.

 

Which leads me into your second series of questions.

The idea of truth is also an illusion.

As is the illusion of separation, and the illusion of logic.

At this point it might be useful to clearly define "illusion".

Illusion - noun - "a thing that is, or is likely to be, wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses."

 

Let me rephrase my previous assertion regarding objective truth.

Objective truth, exactly as the average person imagines it to be, exists.

But it exists at a level of comprehension above the concept of comprehension itself.

And that is why I say it "doesn't exist". Because to us, it may as well not exist.

Even if we did somehow manage to "find" it, we wouldn't even know we had found it.

It's like searching for a rock when really you're supposed to be looking for a noodle. Except the noodle looks like a rock, and also it's invisible and was sitting in your room the entire time.

And then you found 20 bucks. The end.

 

To further make my point, every single thing I've just written is completely wrong AND right for reasons neither of us will ever understand.

[tulpa001]

Indeed. No intrinsic value means the thing is worthless on its own. For example, a four cheese pizza. In a freezer. On earth, it has a value, about $6.99. On a planet with no people, it has a value of $0.00.

 

Therefore, the pizza has no intrinsic value. Where does the pizza get its value from? Someone will eventually eat the pizza. This gives it its value. But how can a person give a pizza value?

 

We repeat the experiment. If there is a single person on a planet all alone, is that person worthless? If so, how did the pizza get its value? Under this model, the value of money is worthless, as it is used as a currency by a worthless people. If the person is worthwhile still, then where does the person's worth come from?

 

Quick note: Subjective value is not usually intrinsic. But objective value (if it exists) is not usually intrinsic either.

 

Tulpa: I like pizza.

 

Your response to my second thought experiment is solid. If your primary assertion, comprehension is a subjective phenomenon only, is true, then there is no way to find any extant truth.

[Solune]

We repeat the experiment. If there is a single person on a planet all alone, is that person worthless? If so, how did the pizza get its value? Under this model, the value of money is worthless, as it is used as a currency by a worthless people. If the person is worthwhile still, then where does the person's worth come from?

 

Worthless to whom? The person's life probably has value to them (unless they're suicidal or something). And even if it doesn't have value to them, it has value to you and I because we are using it in our thought experiment.

If the person believes they have value, then the pizza automatically gains value as a method of survival for the person.

If the person does not believe their life has value, then TO THEM the pizza loses all value.

But to us, it still has value as a part of our thought experiment.

Basically, as long as a thing (be it real or imagined) is interacted with: it can have value. It cannot have value until it is interacted with, because there would be no one to assign value to it. Value is subjective and must always be assigned by something.

 

"Intrinsic value" is much like the word "cold". "Cold" isn't its own thing, it is simply a word to describe the absence of heat. "Intrinsic value" just allows people to use one sentence instead of writing out a paragraph. Though, there are some people who think cold IS its own thing... and that just goes right back into the subjective nature of existence. If I explain what cold is, would they even believe me? Their reality hinges on this question, and so we see that belief is the foundation of reality.

What good are rules if nobody follows them?

 

 

Tulpa: I like pizza.

 

Luna: I... I would marry pizza if I could. I would bear its children and grow old with it. I would want to be buried beside it.