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Is God a Tulpa? An Interview with Stanford Professor T.M. Luhrmann


Guest fordaplot

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I understand that.

 

However, you can break the relationship between bad things and anger. You can use mental discipline or meditation to do it. You can think to yourself that you don't want to associate anger with an event. You can force yourself to not feel anger.

 

Our current association of anger to certain things is already arbitrary. Almost everything we see as bad is only subjectively bad. A god may understand this.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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I'm a bit disappointed this kind of question still exists, if only because of how many times it's been asked before...

 

I think before we attach even more speculation and patently human qualities to Some Thing that may be outside of the reach of human comprehension, we should also study how other cultures and religions view God. Very many thinkers before us have postulated that God's Form is simply unobtainable in that, no matter how many times we seek to super-impose traits onto or corral Him into neat little boxes of comprehension, He slips out of and permeates the frontiers we seek to bind Him to. If He does not guide the wandering as a pillar of Fire or Smoke, or strike the hermit blind or snow the prophet's hair with revelation, what, then, are we to identify Him as? Would this happen to be why one oughtn't resort to craven images, or dare make any simple depiction of God - for it is only part of the Truth, and an insult to the supreme majesty that is He?

 

With this is mind, is it not appropriate that we misunderstand or hear next-to-nothing when we call out for Him? If we posture ourselves as edified magicians or expert pupils of the physical world, relegating the purpose of faith and worship to nothing more than a farcical puppet-show, for what reasons ought we demand Audience? Who are we to demand answers, let alone time-of-day, from the Maker and Guide of existence?

I've seen good people bleed

And I thought I'd seen it all

But my own two eyes would prove me wrong that day.

 

There are things that I've done

Only seen by the sun

And those things will be buried in my grave.

 

 

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Err, no to most of those. At least from several less mainstream perspectives.

 

I think the question will be alive and kicking for a long time, as it is a philosophical question, and philosophical questions don't get answered. They just raise more questions. The question does carry the implicit atheist assumption that God is an illusion. So the question has an easy answer for anyone of a religious bent.

 

The funny thing about the appearance of God to prophets having physical changes on the prophet is that it has the flavour of magical augmentation (spectacle). So someone coming from a physicalist perspective would see that as counterevidence of something, not evidence.

 

From a mathematical perspective, the statement that God is beyond our understanding is something very different to the layman's understanding. To the layman, it makes sense to say, the thing is so majestic, it is beyond our understanding. To the mathematician, this is flat wrong. If it was beyond our understanding, it wouldn't be majestic at all, for majesty exists only within our subjectivity, and shares no correlation with understandability. Instead, saying something is incomprehensible is to say it exists in a way that is not compatible with any discoverable system of mathematics. A truly bizarre notion.

 

Is it appropriate that we hear next to nothing when we call out to him? Eh, maybe if He chooses that it be so. But from an ethical theoretic perspective, there is no reason this would be so. Whether it is appropriate that we misunderstand or not is an odd question. I'm sure we are bound to.

 

Indeed, demanding answers would be weird. I'd only hold those accountable for something to the standard of transparency, and everyone knows it is tiresome to field a really large number of questions of complete strangers.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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Guest fordaplot

I honestly agree that the question has been asked to death, and I had a lot of hesitations to naming my video "Is God is a Tulpa?", as that wasn't even what I intended on focusing on with my interview with Luhrmann. However, after producing the intro portion and hearing the associations between Tulpamancy and Evangelics that surpassed my expectations even after extensive research, I felt it was the most succinct and appropriate title of the discussion. I think the video distinguishes itself from previous discussions in its guest and the amount of research she references. I know it may trigger religious people, but everything certainly aligns with the long-standing tulpa community answer of "yes."

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Depending upon who you ask, those are fighting words.

 

To whom do you refer to when you mention "long-standing tulpa community"? I'm sure you're aware of the spiritualism that permeates at least several of the staff here, not the mention the various other pagans and self-styled "magick-users" who also attend the same Reddit tulpas page you do. Are you prepared to deny other Abrahamic traditions, or all kinds of faith? If not, why only focus upon contemporary Evangelism?

I've seen good people bleed

And I thought I'd seen it all

But my own two eyes would prove me wrong that day.

 

There are things that I've done

Only seen by the sun

And those things will be buried in my grave.

 

 

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To the religious staff and members, I'd ask what their views on Tulpas are. I'm not trying to come off as if instigating, but I am truly curious.

 

The very idea of a Tulpa, and creating a conscious being inside of your mind appears to go against most religions, or at least Christianity from my understanding. Making a Tulpa seems like playing God - creating life. Even if it is only in your head, no one really knows for sure what a Tulpa is. We all have our theories that explain this phenomenon, but whether you're on the metaphysics perspective of psychological, the fact remains that you're still creating a consciousness. I may be wrong here, but don't Christians believe it is the soul that is associated with consciousness; and that humans are special because we have a soul, and are given dominion over the animals of the earth that don't? If so, then do they believe they are creating a new soul when creating a Tulpa? (This isn't rhetorical, I'm actually curious what religious Tulpamancer's views are on this.)

 

At point blank, it seems the idea of Tulpas contradict a religion. Same as evolution or the big-bang.

 

I think it's this perspective that the assumption that most Tulpamancers are Agnostic and Atheist arises. I have no evidence, but I'd be willing to wager that if a poll was ran, the members of this community who are Atheist/Agnostic would outnumber those who are religious.

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I'd say that prejudice would underlie such an interpretation, given you can make the exact same argument about natural birth, but that would be just silly.

 

Indeed, in any science based community, the number of religious persons is low. Healthcare being a major exception, reputedly. But there are plenty of religious tulpamancers as well.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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Well then, I'd like to formally apologize if I offended anyone. I was tired last night and got caught up in the heat of the moment. This is a topic this is deeply personal with me, but I really have no problems with religious people. Now that I'm more awake, I see the holes in my argument.

 

I retract my statement, carry on.

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Guest fordaplot

My host used to talk to god. Though, she did not believe in him. And he answered. She would indeed ask things like "why should I believe in you", or "Is it moral to not believe", or "what do you think of my tulpa".

 

The majority of the questions were asking about god's person. And the answers are largely what you'd expect.

 

There were also a few discussions about morality.

 

Can you please elaborate in as much detail as possible? This is fascinating!

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I really can't, given that this is based on a large number of vague and poorly remembered memories.

 

I once heard a rumour that atheists are actually more likely to hear god than devout followers. Based on Luhrmann's research, I highly doubt that. Still, no religion has a monopoly on spiritual experiences.

 

Okay, I will try to write down some of the conversations. Paraphrasing to be expected.

 

[hidden]

Host: "Can you give me a sign that you exist?" [barganing] "Any sign? I mean, if you exist, then prove it."

God: "What makes you so special? If I don't give my followers a sign, why should I give you one?"

Host: "Well, if you don't give me one, then why should I believe you exist?"

God: "Well, what do you think?"

Host: "OK nvm."

 

Host: "I don't think I will ever get this project done. Should I ask for help"

God: "If you ask, you shall recieve." (more or less)

Host: "Really?"

God: [yeah] (more or less)

Host: "But is it cheating?"

God: "What do you mean?"

Host: "Like, you know, this is my job. Am I supposed to do it alone?"

God: "What do you think?"

Host: "Ok, nvm."

 

Host: "I suppose, if I was to ask a favour, what I'd want most is a chance to talk with you over tea."

God: "Oh?"

Host: "Yeah, I mean, we could debate philosophy, supposedly, you would have insight beyond the ordinary. I want to pick your brain."

God: "I see."

Host: "You know, why not a handshake?"

God: "Yes?"

Host: "They say that the reason you don't give people signs is they ask for too much. I'd accept a handshake as definitive proof of your existence."

God: "I see. Still no."

Host: "Why not?"

God: "Why should I give a sign?"

Host: "Any sign? Like are you saying that any sign would be against your purpose?"

God: "Go on."

Host: "Like this reality could be a test of character. If people actually knew the truth, then they could game the system and defeat the test."

God: "Could be."

Host: "But the evidence you have given us is insufficient to establish your reality. By a basic game theoretic analysis, assuming you are all good, you cannot punish rational belief. But if you don't exist, then it is better to believe you don't exist. So there is no downside to not believing. And if you are not all good, then I shouldn't worship you."

God: "I see"

Host: "Do you have a problem with that?"

God: "What do you think?"

Host: "No?"

God: [feelings of good will]

Host: "woah, this is weird, is this a sign?"

God: "Maybe" ;)

Host: "You know I won't buy this."

God: "Yes."

Host: "Yeah, okay, nvm."

 

Host: "Am I a good person?"

God: "What do you think?"

Host: "Um, I'm careful to not do anything immoral." [long conversation on the ethics of apologies] "I spend a lot of time considering questions of morality and not doing much proactively. What should I do? What should I be doing with my life?"

God: "What do you think?"

Host: "I need to do what I decide to do with my life?"

God: "Yes."

Host: "So I should stick to the carreer path I have chosen?"

God: "Is that what you want?"

Host: "Okay, nvm."

 

Host: "Is my decision to treat my tulpa as a person ethical?"

God: [feelings of hesitation]

Tulpa: "Can I be real person? Can I be considered the same as a human?"

God: [feelings of uneasiness]

Tulpa: "Please?"

God: "Yeah okay."

Tulpa: "Sweet!"

[/hidden]

 

Recorded in rough order they occurred.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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