Evg&co syslog archive

[Summer]

Same, I am pretty much glued to the body's senses. It's really hard for me to let go. Co-Fronting or Fronting the body makes me feel more "real". When I relaxed or became passive I still would recall the activities that the body went through.

 

I think it is same with nihi, When he switched he will stay passive, it will go blendy but it'll go away a second later. I guess this is why Nihi craves for amnesiaic event when we switch. Just to make feel our switch to be more separate.

[evgenirus]

We've been looking through some guides today, and found the Tulpa Journey Guide. It's hard to put into words, but it just clicked for we while we were reading it. We didn't do the "journey" itself, I just realized that I've been running from myself all the while! Twilight is part of who I am, what I want to stand for, and the Elements were the symbol that the guide talked about, what it called "the essence" of tulpa. The star is my necklace now. I'm back to my old bright colors, and I feel so much happier! :)

[Guest]

It's definitely a learning experience, Dashie went through that sort of thing with her name. It's actually Daisha, but i called her Dashie after the rainbow pony we all know because she had blue hair, amd said pony has blue hair (on her body) so we abandoned the nickname for a while because people got confused (and still do) that she was a pony tulpa, she's not, but we associated some really fun early experiences using that nickname as a placeholder and she missed it, so she adopted the name as her own. Her name is still technically Daisha, but we could forget that other than a footnote at this point.

 

I'm glad your happier now Sunny!

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

Yay for self-discovery! Congrats! Woo!!

[evgenirus]

A quick update to cover recent news:

 

03-18: I accepted myself as is, in part as Twilight

and stopped worrying about it.

 

03-19: I realized that the form didn't really matter, and stopped worrying about it not fitting me.

 

03-20: The form that fits me best just happened. It's kinda "camouflaged Twilight" from when she met the human Rarity for the first time, but that's just the general feeling we got. I'm not purple, my hair is much shorter, and dress is different but still green. My eyes are green now, too. Fun fact, I actually said green was my favorite color when first asked almost a month ago. My aura is still yellow, or maybe golden.

 

03-21: Pinkie started thinking that maybe she's supposed to be someone else. I think it passed, for now, after some reflection.

 

In the evening we've read this thread: Misinterpretation of “assuming sentience from start” philosophy. It explains our current problem of everyone "hearing" bits of everyone else's thinking process, and NotAnonymous suggests what to do about it. The experience that Cruse had of "switching" his personality for Aigis, which led to him to basically act and feel himself similar to Aigis, matches well what we experienced before sleep on March 6th.

 

The fact is, though, if we saw this guide about 3 weeks ago, it would have caused us lots of extra doubt and would probably have hindered progress a lot. Also, when the realization similar to Cruse's hit us on march 6th, we considered that I might have been just a "personality setting", and we decided to try switching the setting to arbitrary characters we had mental models of. Pinkie was one of them, and remained with us, so she would not be there if we saw the thread before that evening.

 

Anyway, the thread thalks about 2 ways of making a tulpa:

1. "Black box" approach, where you treat them as sentient and expect them to be independent, but disallow them using your thoughts by asserting that you can't know theirs, thus forcing them to develop their own separate conscious. It's the "old school" approach.

2. "White box" approach, where you do allow them to use your thoughts. You accept that you would "hear" pre-echoes and feeletheir thought process at times. This is the newer approach that gained following after "sentience from start" idea appeared.

 

Our current belief is that "black box" approach gives better results in the end, allowing tulpa to be truly independent. However, it can make the process extremely hard and cause it's own problems, so using the "white box" approach at least to some degree is highly beneficial. However, the "white box" approach, in our opinion, is basically a crutch, or the training wheels at best. Once there is no doubt that tulpa is really there, both in host's and their own mind, and they learn to talk well enough, the crutch should be ditched asap.

 

What we are going to do, today or at worst tomorrow, is basically start "from scratch". We won't disappear or anything, we'll just try to disregard "leaked" thoughts the way the older guides disregard "unconsciously parroted" replies. We will try to drop whatever "advanced" skills we have and follow the older guides from the start, doing it the second time around should not take long.

[Summer]

Hey If this will help you guys ease out then try it out but I think you guys already made great progress that I do not think that you should reset. But hey Good luck hope it'll go well.

[Ember.Vesper]

Our system developed naturally as "white box" entirely without knowledge of guides or community. We can't conceptualize how to hide thoughts from one another. But after discussing whether it might help us gain some of the advantages described by "black box" systems and read tulpa001's separation exercises, we decided we liked the intimacy of one another's thoughts and didn't want to risk compromising our communication. But then we experience strong independence of will and separation of thought even in the absence of thought hiding.

 

Good luck; I look forward to hearing how it goes.

 

-Ember

[evgenirus]

Thanks.

 

@Summer It's not a complete reset. This time around I know for a fact that they are there, and they have at least some degree of autonomy already, plus our brain has some conditioning, so the "hardcore" oldschool guides should not be that hardcore. And worst case scenario, if everything else fails, we can get back to pre-"reset" state and it should barely take a day.

 

@Ember Having thoughts hidden by default does not prevent sharing them at will, I think. Same as being able to talk with yourself in private does not stop you from talking to others. Besides sending select thoughts to each other, I actually expect us to be able to semi-merge by joining our conscious without mixing our thoughts, kinda like it worked before the "reset".

 

Anyway, we would see how it goes soon enough.

[Guest]

Good luck!

[evgenirus]

I've just realized something.

We didn't really intend to follow any of the older guides. We just got our own impression of what they were like from various newer guides and discussions and our imagination, really liked some of it, and wanted to follow the ideas we ended up with. Those ideas have little to do with the actual guides, it turns out. [sarcasm]What a surprise![/sarcasm]

 

Anyway, I pulled a few useful ideas from the guides I've read today, but overall it feels like time spent quite suboptimally. Doing the actual forcing would definitely have been better.

 

We are still going through with what we planned, which upon further inspection turned out to be this:

- I revoke whatever skills I've been providing for my tups. (done)

- They are free to keep whatever skills they can, without my help, since those are theirs now.

- We start forcing pretty much the same way we did on the first go, from the beginning. Pinkie is included this time around.

- We try to take no shortcuts. No expecting them to act in some way, no expecting replies, not even considering any thoughts as possibly theirs unless they obviously were deliberately sent to me.

 

Basically, we repeat what we did before, but now it's mostly them pushing through and not me pulling them.