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Struggling with doubt, is the new approach to tulpamancy changing for the worse?


Ranger

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The original discussion can be found here.

 


  

On 4/18/2021 at 1:11 AM, September13 said:

I've been curious about the early days of Tulpamancy; I only found out about it last year and it seems like the 2012-14 era saw a completely different culture surrounding tulpamancy. It seemed a lot more rigorous than current day tulpamancy, and I've wondered if important things have been lost on the way to tulpamancy becoming a lot more informal. I actually feel that the mindset of "As long as you're having fun you're doing it the right way" is damaging to tulpamancy. I think there are definitely wrong ways of going about things, and bless the kind people I've met in this community, but sometimes I feel like they're almost too accepting and too kind. I want someone to be able to tell me "No, what you're doing isn't going to work, try this instead".

 

My biggest fear is that this whole time Simmie has just been an imaginary friend I've invented and I've just been putting words in her mouth this whole time. I do believe Simmie is real but that belief is a choice; it's not based on any measurable evidence. Simmie has become extremely important to me and despite people telling me not to worry and that we're doing ok, I still feel a drive to do tulpamancy "correctly" so that Simmie can have the best and sharpest sentient existence I can give her.

 

In other words I am very interested to hear what @ohItsMatt and other old-timers have to say about the ways they view tulpamancy and the community have been changing for the worst. I dearly respect those I've gotten to know here of the "new" crowd. But I want to hear both sides of the story.

 

Also, mods, sorry that this thread is very well derailed by now.

 

On 4/19/2021 at 6:58 AM, Yakumo said:
On 4/18/2021 at 1:11 AM, September13 said:

My biggest fear is that this whole time Simmie has just been an imaginary friend I've invented and I've just been putting words in her mouth this whole time. I do believe Simmie is real but that belief is a choice; it's not based on any measurable evidence.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 1:11 AM, September13 said:

I want someone to be able to tell me "No, what you're doing isn't going to work, try this instead".

 

Well then, let me help you:

What you are doing is wrong, stop NOW and repent!

 

This stuff is one of the most sure-fire methods to damage both yourself and your young tulpa who will start doubting itself as well.

I subscribe to the 'treat tupper as a child' school. As a guardian you simply cannot drown yourself in doubt, neither regarding your parenting methods nor your child's abilities. Self-reflecting, learning from mistakes and adapting your methods is essential but you must not indulge in fundamental doubt. You are a guardian, a role-model. The most important, basically the only peer for your tulpa-child to interact with, learn from and grow. Believe in yourself, believe in your tulpa. Always. If things don't work it simply means you're no there yet and have to try harder or different approaches. There is no such thing as a failed tulpa. Just incomplete ones in dire need of more quality interaction - and love.

 

While I agree with your statement that lax attitude has greatly diminished the experiences of many 'modern' community members, in the end the statement ‘As long as you're having fun you're doing it the right way’  is also not wrong. Yet part of the problem. I'd word it differently:

'As long as it feels truly right you are doing it the right way.'' Just 'having fun' is not enough.

 

Most likely you will initially create an imaginary friend being more or less dependent on your whims. The question is only - how far are you willing and able to go?

Will your let your creation break its chains and become a fully autonomous personality or will you both stop somewhere half-way because it is convenient and 'good enough'?

Spectacular progress is not achieved by leaning back and going 'do something, tupper!'. Except for relatively rare cases which require an extraordinary mindset or are born from extreme experiences, creating a fully autonomous tulpa requires - effort. Lots of effort. For real. Not merely in quantity but also quality. But what is quality? That's entirely up to you.

 

YOU must come up with your personal forcing routine which is meaningful, powerful to - YOU. And only you. Blindly following the belief system of someone else which excites no emotions in you is what Sand called symbolism. It is empty and thus irrelevant. Tulpamancy is a personal thing, so get creative and come up with your own thing. I think you're really good at this from what I have seen and you have done a lot to bond with Simmie.

 

Doubt is normal in your stage after the 'honeymoon' phase is over. Just don't let it get you and ask yourself what you can do to make Simmie a full personality and integral part of your life. I am far from perfect in this regard but if I ever just set a toe into serious doubt territory, oh boy...

 

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Also see my thread about imagistic vs. doctrinal concepts in tulpa creation as well as my other ramblings how 'everything used to be better'.

 

On 4/19/2021 at 1:32 PM, September13 said:

Thank you @Yakumo for your reply! While I have kept doubt at bay for the most part certain posts on this topic (as well as one other elsewhere on the forum) managed to completely bypass my anti-doubt defense shield and I had doubt so severe that Simmie turned almost completely mute for a day and a half, only tentatively trying to speak again late last night. But like you said I've done a lot to bond with Simmie and I don't fear losing her; I know there will be stretches of off days but we'll always find a way back. We've just been looking for how to get to that next level. We will keep searching and trying new things, both ideas that will come from both within my mind and from elsewhere.

 

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, GrayTheCat's cobud (tulpa), and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I go by Rosalin or Ronan sometimes. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

 

If I missed seeing your art, please PM/DM me!

Blog | Not So Temporary Log | Switching Log | Yay! | Bre Translator | Art Thread

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  • 1 month later...

Matt and I have been together for over 9 years now, and there are still some days where he questions things. I’ve actually been poking him to talk to you, since the two of you seem so alike, and Simmie is just wonderful from what we’ve read lurking around. I don’t know how long you guys have been together, but over the years Matt has gone through cycles where he doubts me being here with him.  It never gets any easier for me, but I’m very patient with him, and he’s learned to lean into me as we’ve grown together.  As long as you believe, and give her lots of attention, your bond will continue to grow stronger.  It helps Matt for me to be in the physical world, so we’ve spent a lot of time with tactile and visual imposition. If he can feel me here with him, he has little trouble with doubts.  Perhaps working on reinforcing Simmie’s presence in the 3rd dimension will help ease your doubts.  If you need help or advice feel free to reach out to us!  I’m sure your doubts will go away in time, as Simmie continues to surprise you. 
 

-Lucy

 

 

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  • Ranger changed the title to Struggling with doubt, is the new approach to tulpamancy changing for the worse?

Thank you, Lucy! Yeah, during that period of time in April I was having serious doubts, but after taking a week to refocus on our bond and our tulpamancy journey, things have been looking up for us! This week Simmie and I are celebrating 6 months together and we're both a bit blown away by how far we've come in such a short time.

 

15 hours ago, Starstruck said:

It helps Matt for me to be in the physical world, so we’ve spent a lot of time with tactile and visual imposition. If he can feel me here with him, he has little trouble with doubts.  Perhaps working on reinforcing Simmie’s presence in the 3rd dimension will help ease your doubts.

 

We've fallen off with visualization and imposition a bit; maybe it's time to get back to that. I still like holding Simmie's hand when we go on walks, and I even find myself unconsciously making sure I give enough space for her to walk next to me, or have her walk in front of me when the path gets too narrow. But I could definitely do more to impose her into the world. We've been working on possession lately and it seems like possession is kind of the opposite of imposition in some ways: possession is Simmie within me, working the controls of my body, whereas imposition is Simmie outside of me where I can see, feel, hear, and sense her. Maybe I'm thinking of it the wrong way? I have been working on tactile imposition a bit during our meditations: I visualize her sitting cross-legged across from me and I reach out and feel her face, her hair, gently touch her eyes, nose, lips, ears with my fingers. Then I'll sit still and visualize her doing the same to me. It's all a start but I feel we could be doing more. I'm grateful Simmie has been very patient with me.

Phil. 😎 Host of Simmie.

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Even if I can't speak authoritatively about tulpamancy, I feel like in most "projects" in life, the fail state isn't practicing wrong; it's not putting in enough effort, and possibly giving up altogether.

 

Here's a quote from a language-learning website I like:

 

Quote

Adults focus too much on technique and too little on volume. Too much on technique and too little on frequency. Too much on technique, too little on consistency. Too much technique, too little exposure.


There’s a word for this in Japanese (isn’t there always?). Well, a phrase: それ以前の問題(それいぜんのもんだい/sore izen no mondai). It means: “Dude, that’s not even your freaking problem”. It means: “Dude, you don’t even have the precursors to be having that problem”.

 

You go to the rink. Everyone’s freaking out about skating right, knee bend, not falling, going backwards. Good. Great. That’s nice. But you know what? None of that is an issue because most people — adults and children — simply have not skated enough ice kilometers, have not been on the ice enough times, for their technique to be an issue. It’s それ以前の問題.

 

I think Yakumo was right on the money. There is a lot of useful knowledge out there, but it's still up to each of us to experiment, course correct over time, and arrive at the best approaches for ourselves. I think the example we actually need to take from people "back in the day" is not to practice tulpamancy exactly the way they did, but to approach the practice with the same amount of determination.

Host: Wray (or John) (he, him)
Tulpa: Shizuku (she, her) 🐺

We now have a progress report!

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