Purlox

[split] Removing the shout box

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Guest Anonymous

Especially when you go around with your purple badge, it seems to some that you just want power anywhere.

 

Hi, I'm Quora, one of Niichan's tulpae. Would you rather us reply in this thread without said purple badge there?

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Promises vague promises Pleeb what you plan on doing in the distant future with your 0 money and dwindling member activity and half-baked decision making and no college degree has no relevance now when you remove the shoutbox for a reason I've already countered. There is no research being done, we still have no credibility, why the FUCK are you trying to be professional when there is nothing to be professional about? Has removing the shoutbox suddenly made us more than some merry gaggle of faggots with imaginary girlfriends? No, it hasn't.

 

What aren't you getting here.

 

The shoutbox is not the reason we suck.

 

Also what do you even mean by 'science orientation' and changing it. That's ambiguous wording.

Making people act more professionally can't be done over night, so you need to do steps even before they are needed, because if we did all of them when we upgrade the site, then it would take people some time before they change as well and in that time we are losing users that come to the site for professional research and discussion of theories about tulpas.

 

Shoutbox:

 

[ ] Spamming image macros

[ ] NSFW videos

[ ] Irrelevant 'lolfag' replies

[x] Shitposting (it's a chat room)

 

If those are problems elsewhere in your boards you didn't fix it by removing the shoutbox.

The professionallity on the site can be improved by removing places where users can easily break the rules and actually moderating is very hard.

 

I'm sorry did you just boil down 'bad' and 'good' to 'cussing' and 'not cussing?'

 

Pleeb god damn it why are you making this so hard? That does NOT PROVE ME WRONG. Be objective you are not being objective, you have an agenda and you want to be right that's why you're totally cool with making no god damn sense.

When I looked at your argument saying that the IRC is bad I saw no objective arguments and no proof. Mind stating some?

 

Pleeb you are being narrow-minded you are cherry-picking and you are making logical dogshit while you try and prove you've made the right decision, you aren't even responding clearly to some of the things I'm saying. You are NOT BEING OBJECTIVE. I swear Pleeb step back for a fucking minute and see all the logical errors you're making.

 

Learning how IRC works is 'flourishing?' You mother fucker, Pleeb I swear how can you even say shit about making democratic petitions in 'the heat of the moment' when you/amadeus nick the shoutbox without even a fucking warning AFTER a 5 page thread of a dozen different people all giving reasons it should stay.

 

Fuck your quotes and fuck the new IRC and fuck everyone's good intentions, IRC at present is guilty and must be proven innocent and that will only come with time and proof that there won't be any of the negative conduct to which I and several other members alluded. I'm not talking about tulpa.lewd specifically at all nerdy spergelords who get their feelings hurt over stupid shit infest your IRCs especially the popular ones as do the mods to which I referred, why are you even listing that channel without any context you're just making noise now.

You should calm down. Write a response when emotions aren't controlling you.

 

I don't know what any of that means but I believe you if you INSIST it can't be fixed.

You present very good argument... wait you don't.

 

 

Omitting the heaps of bullshit and empty statistics, your main argument is essentially that the shoutbox was completely unprofessional, and much worse than both the forums themselves and any of the main IRC channels. You want to eliminate unnecessary sections of the site that make us look anything but professional and "scientific". But have you honestly taken a look around at the site's users? Do you honestly believe that this site has any chance to somehow become something credible and scholarly? During the site's early days there was quite a bit of variety in users I'll admit. And it had a decent chance at evolving to something greater. But due in part to the community itself, many more "normal" or "scientific" people left. When the majority of the userbase is either asspies pretending that they're the pony they fap to the most often, or batshit delusional magicians pretending to use psychic energy in their mother's basement with a small minority of others in between, the population is doomed to fall.

Do you have any data to back it up? And even if you do, I don't see how the way a tulpa looks somehow affects the person to such a degree that they can't be professional or want to do research or discuss theories.

 

Also I can't see your argument supporting shoutbox here, you start talking about what Pleeb's arguments and what he wants to do and suddenly you criticise members of the community, that are supposedly too bad to take part in the "scientific stuff".

 

Removing shoutbox and other stuff that make us look unprofessional will help us look much better in the future, so less "scientific" people will leave and also people will stop being so unprofessional, so I don't see a problem with that.

 

And you seem to be forgetting how bad the post quality in the forums and IRC really are. I don't even need to pull up anything in particular as an example, as nearly all threads are littered with internet humor and crude references. Of course, being forums dedicated to making something akin to imaginary friends with the community itself being a derivative of /x/ and /mlp/, it's only natural. And just because there is more cussing in the shoutbox in no way indicates that it is somehow less quality than the IRC channels. Sure without constant moderation people will be more inclined to use cuss words. But the difference in quality is that most of the time, the shoutbox was being used to help both new and frequent members with their tulpa. More often than not I've come into the shoutbox to see someone giving advice on a certain aspect of tulpaforcing that someone else is struggling with. Meanwhile even the on-topic tulpa irc channels like #tulpa and #tulpa.info largely consist of absolute bullshit. While there is little cussing at the discretion of constant moderation, nearly the entire chat consist of one massive roleplay circlejerk littered with sexual innuendo and " le kawaii talk =P -_o xDDDDDDDDDDDD". If a supposed scholar were to spend 10 seconds in any of the IRC channels, tulpa.info would lose all credibility in their eyes. And rightfully so. But that brings me to my main point. You honestly believe that changing the site layout and host will somehow change the userbase from a fucked up off-shoot of a 4chan community mixed with equally fucked up stragglers into some glistening model of a community? That the roleplayers will suddenly up and leave because the site is more "science oriented"? You can cover shit with sprinkles but it's still shit.

How exactly you know when someone is RPing or saying BS? Does your magical bullshit detector see into people's heads through the internet and can analyse whether or not what they say has happened or not?

 

Also, you again show your very active interest in whining from the sidelines, doing nothing to prove your arguments and suggesting no solution, alternative nor trying to help actively yourself. I guess that will never change.

 

And now on to the statistic of 1500 total members. As a self-proclaimed god of the internet, I'm sure you're familiar with 90-9-1 rule that applies to every online community. I'll just quote my past self on it.

So how does this apply to your current statistic? Well, essentially only 9% of that 1500 make any contribution to the site at all. That means roughly only 135 members make any contribution to the site. And only 15 members make up the top 1%. Excluding the vast number of abandoned accounts that have only made a few posts and have been inactive for months. With that, most of the people who left after the removal of the shoutbox were part of the 9%, bringing the active statistic even lower. And the site is on a slow but sure decline. Sure, the number of total accounts might be at an all-time high, but the vast majority are either abandoned, or don't contribute. Phi also made a good point on this in the other shoutbox thread:

Can you prove this is a rule with some data?

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-on a related note, no-one spoke up about the proposition until it was done: that'd be because many of the shoutbox users only used the shoutbox. The people who cared the most about the shoutbox may not have frequented the forums proper.

As Pleeb mentioned, this issue has been discussed before, and people in the shoutbox were invited to take part in the discussion.

 

-#tulpa.shoutbox is fine: well, it's fine now, but it's only been a few hours since its formation. What the future holds for it is as yet unseen.

Why do you assume an IRC channel full of the same people who used the shoutbox before might degrade just because they move to an IRC channel?

 

-people can go elsewhere: you don't want to split the community up. You can look at the naysayers and come to the conclusion that tulpa.info is declining. Telling people to, in a sense, go away and form their own place seems to me to be counterproductive to keeping this site healthy.

As has been mentioned, if all they cared about in this community was the shoutbox, then they weren't really part of the broader community in the first place and so this isn't really "splitting" anything.

 

Also, hostility towards the official IRC channels is justified for a few reasons.

One, that what constitutes a 'good' channel is subjective, and past base language and the like, no logs will show a dedicated #.info mod how others have come to feel about their channel.

Two, that the moderation staff of said channels is distrusted by some at best. Especially when you go around with your purple badge, it seems to some that you just want power anywhere.

If you just say "well it's subjective" without any further reasoning, then no, it's not "justified". Moderation is something we're always trying to improve, and we're willing to listen to constructive criticism.

As far as "badges", we just had them one day, it's not like we asked for them. And they don't give us any kind of authority here, they just let people know who the IRC mods are in case they have questions, or something. Actually I'm not really sure why we have "badges" but I'm sure someone else could explain them.


Astral project on my face, brother!

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Guest Anonymous

As far as "badges", we just had them one day, it's not like we asked for them. And they don't give us any kind of authority here, they just let people know who the IRC mods are in case they have questions, or something. Actually I'm not really sure why we have "badges" but I'm sure someone else could explain them.

 

Pretty much all I have is a hat for my avatar.

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As Pleeb mentioned, this issue has been discussed before, and people in the shoutbox were invited to take part in the discussion.

 

And the people said no, please don't remove the shoutbox. Doesn't exactly make us users of a site feel like we're worth anything in the eyes of the mighty mods and admins when they ask us what we want and then do what they wanted to do in the first place, without giving any thought to us.

 

Why do you assume an IRC channel full of the same people who used the shoutbox before might degrade just because they move to an IRC channel?

 

Not exactly "degrading" (maybe), buuuut...

 

we're going to see how the sb channel pans out, sands

let things settle for a while

if it seems .info crowd isn't going to leave

we'll move.

Though I think they will.

There's not enough /me whoring for them to stay so far.


The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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-any community resists change: this is a large change. Removing what is more or less the most active place on the site (that is, where new content is posted most quickly) is a bit more than a sidebar change

Whether or not it's a large or small change is irrelevant to the argument.

 

-on a related note, no-one spoke up about the proposition until it was done: that'd be because many of the shoutbox users only used the shoutbox. The people who cared the most about the shoutbox may not have frequented the forums proper.

Removing shoutbox was discussed since December, not sure how "no-one" spoke up about it.

 

-people can go elsewhere: you don't want to split the community up. You can look at the naysayers and come to the conclusion that tulpa.info is declining. Telling people to, in a sense, go away and form their own place seems to me to be counterproductive to keeping this site healthy.

Just because they think that tulpa.info is declining doesn't mean it is.

 

-the shoutbox isn't professional: well, that's been covered already. The main point is that it could be moved. I actually use the classic MyBB theme, and the shoutbox is at the bottom of the main page on that. Besides that, there's no hint of professionalism on the forums anyway; a quick head-count of MLP avatars and such will tell you that.

Since when liking a certain show makes a person unprofessional? Do you expect "professional" people to be talking about science 24/7 and have no other interests?

 

-the shoutbox is a resource hog: this one, at least, is true. But at 15/18/25% CPU load (whatever it was) it would seem as though you have room to spare for now. Especially since traffic seems to be declining, you wouldn't miss it terribly.

The shoutbox isn't the only thing on the site, so

 

Also, hostility towards the official IRC channels is justified for a few reasons.

One, that what constitutes a 'good' channel is subjective, and past base language and the like, no logs will show a dedicated #.info mod how others have come to feel about their channel.

Two, that the moderation staff of said channels is distrusted by some at best. Especially when you go around with your purple badge, it seems to some that you just want power anywhere.

If there is no objective way of proving the channel is good, then it's all about opinion isn't it? I don't see a reason to be so hostile just because of an opinion.

 

They might be disliked, but that doesn't mean they are disliked for good reasons.

 

Also, we got no new power just by having the badge and the reasons why it's useful to know who is IRC mod were mentioned already.

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Guest Anonymous

Do you have any data to back it up? And even if you do, I don't see how the way a tulpa looks somehow affects the person to such a degree that they can't be professional or want to do research or discuss theories.

You want me to provide "data" based on a subjective statement? Do you actually understand the process of gathering data? If you truly want objective data, go make a poll on whether or not the community has aspergers/autism and/or believe in metaphysics. However, you completely miss my point which is explicitly stated multiple times, that it is based on appearance. This community appears to mostly consist of asspies and fake magicians. Although I'm sure the data gathered would support the statement. Regardless, asking for objective data on subjective statements makes absolutely no sense.

 

How exactly you know when someone is RPing or saying BS? Does your magical bullshit detector see into people's heads through the internet and can analyse whether or not what they say has happened or not?

You can't tell me you've never seen roleplaying. Are you that oblivious? The entire essence of signifying roleplay is through the explicit use of puncuation, like using *asterisks* to imply action, or italics to imply tone. And in terms of non-blatant roleplay, it'd take someone with no comprehension of basic tonality to not pick up on it.

 

Also, you again show your very active interest in whining from the sidelines, doing nothing to prove your arguments and suggesting no solution, alternative nor trying to help actively yourself. I guess that will never change.

And my alternative is? It's obvious there is absolutely no democratic decision making. While there was a thread asking the opinions of users on the removal of the shoutbox, the decision was ultimately made by the staff, and abruptly at that. You really do seem to not read posts, though. I've offered multiple alternatives in both this and the previous thread. Since you require quotes and data like a diabetic needs insulin, here's my first post containing suggestions:

But what I came to realize is that all of the problems were caused only by 1-2 people. Restricting these people from the shoutbox would have been much more effective than scrapping it altogether.

I've also agreed with the action of moving the chatbox to the bottom of the page, or in another page altogether.

 

Can you prove this is a rule with some data?

Do you even try to find any relevant data, or is it just your fallback when you don't know what else to say? Try this for once. And before you bring it up since you have difficulty fully reading, it's used a general rule of thumb based on countless studies following the exact same correlation. That means that the actual percentages vary slightly from community to community. But as a 1337 INTJ IRC mod, you already knew that.

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What is all this nonsense about the site declining? It seems to be idle gossip to me, and there's no basis except for something which Phi posted, showing a Mortgage Debt graph with a decline. These images I'm posting are courtesy of Pleeb.

 

Isu3Q.png

 

LwnfM.png

 

And before some wise person notes that January's hit count is really low - we're halfway through January and it's higher than the halfway point of last month.

 

Also, sorry to debunk the 90/9/1 'rule', but 555 members have logged into the site in the past week. Now, that doesn't say anything about how actively posting users are, but it certainly shows that a very large proportion of the ~1400 members we have are still active.

 

I'll also try to get non-lurker statistics from the last week from Pleeb, general post statistics, stuff like that, in case you still aren't convinced about how much bullshitting is going on about the site declining and such.

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As Pleeb mentioned, this issue has been discussed before, and people in the shoutbox were invited to take part in the discussion.

I can't really argue with that without knowledge of what this 'inviting' involved. Do you mean he actually informed said members individually, or posted something in the shoutbox from time to time.

 

Why do you assume an IRC channel full of the same people who used the shoutbox before might degrade just because they move to an IRC channel?

Actually, why don't you look for yourself in the channel and see how many shoutbox regulars there are against people who didn't frequent the shoutbox? Established by someone who didn't frequent the shoutbox, and with much discussion taking place between people who didn't frequent the shoutbox, it's a stretch to call it the replacement shoutbox member for member.

You're right to question how something may change like this, but bear in mind that the "#tulpa.shoutbox is thriving" was (and is) being said on the first day of it existence, when it was bound to be far more busy than any other time afterwards for obvious reasons.

 

As has been mentioned, if all they cared about in this community was the shoutbox, then they weren't really part of the broader community in the first place and so this isn't really "splitting" anything.

Not really a good attitude in this situation though, is it? I don't think that the figures cited here show that tulpa.info staff can afford to be picky about who they call 'part of the community'.

 

If you just say "well it's subjective" without any further reasoning, then no, it's not "justified".

Fine then. At least, your defence is not justified either. Yes, "It's subjective" is weak, but the point is that you're in no position to evaluate others' claims about the quality of #.info.

 

As far as "badges", we just had them one day, it's not like we asked for them. And they don't give us any kind of authority here, they just let people know who the IRC mods are in case they have questions, or something. Actually I'm not really sure why we have "badges" but I'm sure someone else could explain them.

I can't really argue with that either, but I think you can opt out of the banner by changing your display group here.

 


 

 

Whether or not it's a large or small change is irrelevant to the argument.

It does. If Pleeb's argument was "people will oppose any change", then could we remove Progress Reports and ignore the ensuing complaints. Maybe I misunderstand the point, but of course people are going to complain about a significant change.

 

Removing shoutbox was discussed since December, not sure how "no-one" spoke up about it.

Pleeb's point, not mine.

 

Just because they think that tulpa.info is declining doesn't mean it is.

And fair enough. Still, being staff, I'd value their opinion on such a thing above the punter.

 

Since when liking a certain show makes a person unprofessional? Do you expect "professional" people to be talking about science 24/7 and have no other interests?

Certainly, displaying it so openly could be regarded as, in a strict environment, a breach of professionalism. Still, that was a single example, and I really shouldn't have to tell you why the forums tend to be unprofessional anyway.

 

The shoutbox isn't the only thing on the site, so

...?

 

If there is no objective way of proving the channel is good, then it's all about opinion isn't it? I don't see a reason to be so hostile just because of an opinion.

I'd have to agree. If the opinion does not matter, then why be so defensive about it?

 

They might be disliked, but that doesn't mean they are disliked for good reasons.

Why do you think they are disliked? Why don't you think that the forum admins are disliked as much?

 

Also, we got no new power just by having the badge

And that's the best part, isn't it?

This isn't the thread for discussing the purple badge though; I brought it up as a reason for dislike.

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