Memory deletion and modification

[intelhunter]

 

1. I'm just going to throw this out there right now. I have no problem with a wide variety of mind-altering drugs, and realize that they are safe in the correct dosages and situations. But by making the usage of drugs your basis for thinking that memory modification is dangerous, you've IMMEDIATELY ruined your entire argument. It's not the memory modification that is dangerous, it's the habitual abuse of mind-altering drugs that is dangerous.

 

2. If we take it that psychosis is the belief that something exists which, in reality, does not, than tulpas fall under then umbrella of psychosis. A ton of people see and hear tulpas and perceive them as very real even though they exist only mentally and not physically. "Psychosis" isn't the term you're looking for, it's "Extreme high and loss of mental control due to large doses of multiple drugs."

 

3. This is a completely and mind-numbingly stupid thing to say. Again, it's not the memory modification that is doing any harm, it's the careless and reckless consumption of drugs which can be harmful or lethal in the incorrect doses and combinations.

 

4. Why are you taking credit for this theory? This idea isn't yours. You didn't come up with the possibility that this might be possible. Bluesleeve and Pleeb are the ones who were discussing it, and this is Blueesleeve's thread. If any harm comes to somebody through tulpa memory modification it will most likely be because the person in question is irresponsible and carelessly ingests large quantities of harmful drugs with no clues as to what the safe dosages or combinations are.

 

I literally can not tell if you're being sarcastic or trolling or are actually trying to argue against what sounds like a perfectly safe thing to do. I don't understand how somebody could be ok with the idea of consciously and willingly adding an additional conscious to their mind, and NOT be ok with that second conscious changing one or two words in a made-up sentence. If my tulpa was far enough along to be able to attempt this I would gladly try it with no fear of self-injury because I trust myself and my tulpa.

 

1: a lot of people actually use drugs, and it doesnt have to be drugs that causes it. there can be several underlying mental conditions and stuff.

 

2: no, im not saying that tuppers are even related to mental conditions, now you are putting words into my mouth. psychosis induced by drugs is still a psychosis, and they do happen some times. you know that your tulpa is made by you, but when in a real psychosis you percieve everything to be real, you just loose reality completely.

 

3: well fuck, thats almost the same as saying that its not the car crash that kills, its the combination of drugs and cars. if you mix irresponsibility with cars, or tuppers for that sake, the result can be the same.

 

4: im not taking credit for this shit, im saying that its my duty to put a warning sign on all of this, because its DELETION, and in real life there is no ctrl+z. not warning someone about something you know can be harmfull is almost the same as encouraging.

all im saying is that the loss of a person because we didnt warn them about this is something i dont want to have on my hands. and yes, there are irresponsible people out there, and no, im not basing my entire theory on drugs, there are multiple other possibilities, like underlying mental conditions, maliscious tulpaes that know that they can get their host out of the world without damaging them, ect, etc...

if you learn your kid how to make explosives but you only let them play with firecrackers, then the kid could still make a bomb one day and blow you to kingdom come.

 

all im saying is that we dont know jackshit about this shit yet, and we should treat it as a potential danger untill we know for sure that it is not.

better safe than sorry.

[motorheadlk]

I am against division to advanced techniques and non-advanced, because I have seen quite a few people that succeeded with "advanced" stuff before doing some of the non-advanced and it helped them, I also know about a tulpa that probably wouldn't live (or would be born later) if the host didn't do imposition early, so I don't see a good reason for such division.

 

What I meant for Advanced-Only would be for possession, memory deletion and modification and personality changes (if this is achievable). I know vocal and visual hallucinations are advanced, but they aren't advanced-only because there is no risk at all for a newbie to do this. Possession or memory modification on the other hand are something that in the hands of a not fully-developed tulpa that doesn't know what she's doing could cause harm to both the host and herself. I think that both possession and memory modification would need to have as requirements a fluent tulpa (either vocal or trough mindspeak), finished personality (or at least one that the hosts already knows, f.e. he knows his tulpa doesn't like X, so he doesn't do X) and of course a clear relationship with honesty, loyalty and sincerity.

 

What I see here on the forums is that almost all hosts believe in their tulpas fully, but what we see in the questionnaires are that tulpas answer that they would do something against the hosts will if the tulpas perceived that as a benefit for the host. So, a host could have a memory modification even if he doesn't want it, f.e., he has a bad memory about being bullied, this memory even if it's unpleasant is something the hosts care for because of X and Y, yet the tulpa decides it's something that the host shouldn't remember, the host would not even know that the tulpa deleted the memory. That's why I suggest a [Advanced-Only] tag in these threads. There are some kind of risks that need to be explained before someone sees this and decides to try it.

[hakase]

snip

 

I understand your concern, but I really do think that it's a bit unjustified. Consider for one moment that things such as memory modification, possession, and, why not, tulpas themselves, are weapons of the mind of some sort, for lack of better or more pacifistic terminology.

 

Just like with actual weapons, communities and individuals need to ensure that they are capable of using them safely and properly before they begin use. We prove that we are capable of driving by being trained to drive before we get licenses, and we prove that we are worthy of a job by completing training before we can get jobs, etc. Now, this is all well and good for those who are healthy and mentally stable, but what about those who make poor choices or are unstable, and thus, unfit to drive cars, join the workforce, or care for tulpae? It's very simple: They do not.

 

If one is unfit to drive a car in traffic, they do not. If one is unfit to work with others, they do not. If one is unfit to handle a tulpa, they do not.

 

These are all things that are done at the doer's discretion. People need to be able to know themselves and what they are capable of. Driving cars, working, and ANYTHING tulpa-related all have risks associated with them, but can be completely safe if done correctly and with the proper care. If a person is irresponsible enough to ignore their own limits and go and do one of these things anyways, than it is their fault and theirs alone. It is no one's responsibility but their own to make sure that they are safe and secure in their actions, EVEN MORE SO when these actions are mental or psychological ones, done consciously and willingly, and done by and done for the individual doing them. I realize that due to your religion you may feel that you must protect others form harm, but it is not your responsibility to do so and insisting that you must defend others because they are defenseless can be seen as babysitting and as insulting to those who you are trying to protect. And honestly, the risk of healthy people coming to harm from this is slim to none.

[Purlox]

What I meant for Advanced-Only would be for possession, memory deletion and modification and personality changes (if this is achievable). I know vocal and visual hallucinations are advanced, but they aren't advanced-only because there is no risk at all for a newbie to do this. Possession or memory modification on the other hand are something that in the hands of a not fully-developed tulpa that doesn't know what she's doing could cause harm to both the host and herself. I think that both possession and memory modification would need to have as requirements a fluent tulpa (either vocal or trough mindspeak), finished personality (or at least one that the hosts already knows, f.e. he knows his tulpa doesn't like X, so he doesn't do X) and of course a clear relationship with honesty, loyalty and sincerity.

 

What I see here on the forums is that almost all hosts believe in their tulpas fully, but what we see in the questionnaires are that tulpas answer that they would do something against the hosts will if the tulpas perceived that as a benefit for the host. So, a host could have a memory modification even if he doesn't want it, f.e., he has a bad memory about being bullied, this memory even if it's unpleasant is something the hosts care for because of X and Y, yet the tulpa decides it's something that the host shouldn't remember, the host would not even know that the tulpa deleted the memory. That's why I suggest a [Advanced-Only] tag in these threads. There are some kind of risks that need to be explained before someone sees this and decides to try it.

 

Can you give an example of reason why a sane person would care for a memory when he was bullied?

 

Whether or not they learn to do something is between the tulpae and their host, we shouldn't impose any requirements on them and at best we should avoid forcing ourselves (or others) to be part of the decision altogether.

[intelhunter]

How did you get from memory deletion to effective murder to a real murder? Seems like logic leaps to me.

 

im not talking about the deletion of files on the great computer called the brain, im talking about deleting sys32. except that there is another distro there to replace the old one. murder is when somebody is ended, not when somebody ends, there is actually quite the difference there. you may not notice it when the old OS is deleted, because the new OS will guise itself as the old one.

 

we might be surrounded by rouge tulpaes as we speak, because we dont know if they are lying or not. what if im a rouge one?

---

...but what we see in the questionnaires are that tulpas answer that they would do something against the hosts will if the tulpas perceived that as a benefit for the host. So, a host could have a memory modification even if he doesn't want it, f.e., he has a bad memory about being bullied, this memory even if it's unpleasant is something the hosts care for because of X and Y, yet the tulpa decides it's something that the host shouldn't remember, the host would not even know that the tulpa deleted the memory. That's why I suggest a [Advanced-Only] tag in these threads. There are some kind of risks that need to be explained before someone sees this and decides to try it.

 

Thank you.

[Purlox]

im not talking about the deletion of files on the great computer called the brain, im talking about deleting sys32. except that there is another distro there to replace the old one. murder is when somebody is ended, not when somebody ends, there is actually quite the difference there. you may not notice it when the old OS is deleted, because the new OS will guise itself as the old one.

 

Can you say it how it works without the analogy? I ask because I don't see why it has to work the same way it does in the analogy,

[Tristan379]

we might be surrounded by rouge tulpaes as we speak, because we dont know if they are lying or not. what if im a rouge one?

 

Then you are shitty at helping your peers succeed.

 

Seriously though, It would probably take a bit of effort to wipe out significant memories that have had an effect on who the host is. I would think it takes a lot more effort to cover up than a sentence he read a few times and actively tried not to think about.

But that's why we have this section; To learn more about the tulpa phenomenon and what it can do. By exploring this methodically and safely we can learn what not to do, what works best, etc.

 

 

inb4 a scandal where the tulpa has been raping his host for months only to erase the host's memories right afterwards.

 

[hakase]

 

im not talking about the deletion of files on the great computer called the brain, im talking about deleting sys32. [citation needed] except that there is another distro there to replace the old one. [citation needed] murder is when somebody is ended, not when somebody ends, [citation needed] there is actually quite the difference there. you may not notice it when the old OS is deleted, because the new OS will guise itself as the old one. [citation needed]

 

we might be surrounded by rouge tulpaes as we speak, [citation needed] because we dont know if they are lying or not. what if im a rouge one? [citation needed]

---

 

Just because you know a bit about Windows and Linux does NOT mean that you know ANYTHING about neurochemistry or psychology. People aren't god damn computers, and you can't just fucking "boot up" a new personality onto a person. The human brain is FAR more complex than that and you're making a right joke of it. How can you even make such a de-humanizing analogy given your signature, profile, and your religion? What the actual fuck, man?

[intelhunter]

 

Can you say it how it works without the analogy? I ask because I don't see why it has to work the same way it does in the analogy,

 

it works like this then: tulpa deletes host, tulpa acts like host and severs all ties slowly and then starts anew.

 

 

Then you are shitty at helping your peers succeed.

 

Seriously though, It would probably take a bit of effort to wipe out significant memories that have had an effect on who the host is. I would think it takes a lot more effort to cover up than a sentence he read a few times and actively tried not to think about.

But that's why we have this section; To learn more about the tulpa phenomenon and what it can do. By exploring this methodically and safely we can learn what not to do, what works best, etc.

 

 

inb4 a scandal where the tulpa has been raping his host for months only to erase the host's memories right afterwards.

 

 

why would i want my peers to succeed?

 

also, i think it can be done, with enough practise.

 

Just because you know a bit about Windows and Linux does NOT mean that you know ANYTHING about neurochemistry or psychology. People aren't god damn computers, and you can't just fucking "boot up" a new personality onto a person. The human brain is FAR more complex than that and you're making a right joke of it. How can you even make such a de-humanizing analogy given your signature, profile, and your religion? What the actual fuck, man?

 

im not saying that i know about neurochemistry or psychology, but i know that i know more than the average joe from doing research on my own, reading up on the mind, ect...

 

humans are computers, just ultra-super-duper-über complex ones. and you cant just boot up a tulpa(new personality), we have to program them carefully(read: tulpaforce them), and treat them with love and accept their flaws and forgive their mistakes. also, some times people go waaay over their limits.

 

do you want to bring my religion into this? love your neigbour as you love yourself. i wouldnt want myself or anyone else to become a prisoner inside my mind, so im warning everyone to think twice, the think twice again, and again untill you are 1,000,000,000% sure that you want to take the risk.

 

 

also, is it customary to research the person you are arguing with's profile? this is my first forum i ever registered for, im more of a IRC guy. i see that you wrote "singature, profile..."

 

 

 

 

all im saying is that we should approach this as pharmacologists approach a new pill they are making, we shouldnt gulp it down to see what happens, we should start to look for pointers, and last time i checked "MEMORY DELETION WITH NO CTRL+Z" is a clear sign of something that you dont want to gulp down.

[hakase]

im not saying that i know about neurochemistry or psychology, but i know that i know more than the average joe from doing research on my own, reading up on the mind, ect...

 

If this were true then you would know that it is not possible for human memories to be well and truly "deleted". They are not deleted, the connections to those memories are simply lost or removed. If another connection is found or made, then BAM the memory comes back. There's your mythical ctrl-Z that you're so fanatical about.

 

And shit, maybe there's research somewhere that says that memories can actually be deleted, and not just lost. If there is, then I haven't read it, and as far as I know, no such research exists.

 

do you want to bring my religion into this?

 

Since you insist on wearing it on your sleeve, Yes. I won't chastise you for expecting me to hold true to any statements or claims I make in public if you wish me to do so, because I always try my best to refrain from saying things I don't mean or don't believe or can't defend, and I hold others to the same standard.

 

also, is it customary to research the person you are arguing with's profile? this is my first forum i ever registered for, im more of a IRC guy. i see that you wrote "singature, profile..."

 

I couldn't tell you. All I can tell you is that I hate hypocrites, and I don't understand how someone who says that they're a christian and believes that "the body is a temple" can turn around and make an analogy that puts living, breathing human beings on the same level as a simple "push button, get bacon" system.