Creating Archetypes

[shalkek]

I don't know if this is the place is the one to post for this since, apart from the drug threads, no one cares about the research forum. I got this idea while reading trough the guides.

 

A lot of people seem to come up with some kind of symbolism that works really well for them on whatever they're working on. They come on here and write a guide about their awesome new symbolism technique. But mostly these seem to be very individual, so they don't work on other people.

Now, bare with me on this. In the lucid dreaming community there are a lot of really weird myths like you can't switch a light on in a dream, you can't read anything, if you look in a mirror your image will get deformed, etc ... These have become archetypes. People believe in these things and they happen to them because in a dream all that matters is your perception.

 

And these archetypes are sort of useful as well. Some people get lucid from realizing they can't flip the light on. So what I'm thinking is, why shouldn't we have stuff like that as well. This is a bit weird but bare with me, what if we made up a system of symbolism-based techniques or picked the most common ones and developed a system. I guarantee this works well with dreams. It would be the tupper magic, unlike with the lucid dreaming we would create this system consciously.

 

I'm not sure how good of an idea this is, but here it is.

[Shui]

That sounds interesting, and it might work well. What did you have in mind specifically?

[Linkzelda]

Yeah, the whole instability and such with dreaming has made people build predispositions, but even with that, there's dreams where a person can read a text just fine or things turn on/off the correct way. You're right that most guides involve some kind of symbolism or some medium of focus to get to the same results, and to really be proficient in seeing the underlying concepts behind them, it's about being simplistic first on how one can develop the visual thinking or other skills into this.

 

I found that after doing some personal research with exercises that trains visualization and such for people in general, it's a lot easier to go to guides here and go with the flow of what the guide maker presented. One example is JD1215's visualization guide, before, I had horrible visualization skills, or not good enough to drag on for long periods of time. Then after going training that need for better visual thinking, I can look at his guide and easily go through the process.

 

It just goes back to how that sometimes it's best to have some prefetched imagery/symbols/scenarios/etc. to give a good push in the right direction into subjectivity and thus whatever task you have in mind after that. Same with people imagining a red dot when attempting a lucid dream after a WBTB, or someone imagining a rope above them, and them climbing it, after some training, they shifted their awareness to somewhere so often, it's easier for them to get to where they need to be.

 

 

P.S. That's one of the secrets in getting better at hypnosis.

[Dr. Faust]

I think a lot of aspects of Magick work this way (using predefined symbolism). Shui posted this link in another thread and from this and what I've gleaned from a lot of magick manuals:

 

1. You create some type of protection (so you're completely safe from whatever you're mucking with)

 

2. You learn as much as you can about the entity.

 

3. You create some sort of space to summon them into

 

4. You put yourself into a trance like state (called gnosis)

 

5. Entity is summoned.

[shalkek]

I think a lot of aspects of Magick work this way (using predefined symbolism). Shui posted this link in another thread and from this and what I've gleaned from a lot of magick manuals:

 

1. You create some type of protection (so you're completely safe from whatever you're mucking with)

 

2. You learn as much as you can about the entity.

 

3. You create some sort of space to summon them into

 

4. You put yourself into a trance like state (called gnosis)

 

5. Entity is summoned.

 

Well sure, if you're into that sort of thing. But what I'm suggesting isn't really actual magic (I'm staying safely away from the metaphysics forum). But in fact, finding some common symbolism that we can all use. And to answer you question Shui, I'm thinking that, we should have a list of symbolism-related stuff that people could pick out of and use.

Like people with low visualization skills tend to have some sort of weird method of entering wonderland.

I'm sure someone less sleep deprived than me can judge weather or not this would be any improvement to everyone making their own symbolism stuff.

[Shui]

To back up Dr. Faust here, you don't have to believe in magic to use it as common symbolism.

 

Let me break down a standard ritual structure to illustrate. I'll copy and paste the structure from here. The first thing you'll notice is that this is long and complex. There's a reason for that: a recent study shows that more steps, repetition, and complexity in a ritual makes people feel like the ritual was more effective.

 

• Cleansing and Setting Up the Space
  
• Purification of the Participants
  
• Purification of the Space
  
• Grounding and Centering
  
• Merging
  
• Declared Opening
  
• Statement of Purpose
  
• Consecration of the Elements
  
• Consecration of the Tools
  
• Casting the Circle
  
• Calling the Quarters
  

 

These first eleven steps are somewhat like relaxation, induction and anchoring to hypnosis. The ritual structure prepares the participants for the process. Just as Pavlov's dog learned through repetition that the sound of the bell signified dinnertime, these first steps of the ritual signify to the participants that it's magic time. Casting the Circle in particular defines a space distinct from everyday reality, in which ordinary objects like cups or sticks become potent symbols.

 

• In/Evocation of Deity
  
• Celebration
  
• Magical Work
  
• Divination
  
• Cakes and Wine
  

 

The Invocation/Evocation bit is about addressing the subconscious mind. This can be done either by addressing it as an external being, or by calling desired qualities into oneself. Chaos magic is particularly interesting in that it recognizes that it doesn't particularly matter what deity you're calling up -- practitioners of chaos magic have been known to invoke fictional characters or corporations, treating them as deities.

 

In addition to the connection with (and commands to) the subconscious, this part of the ritual is about getting into the right state of mind, what is sometimes called gnosis or the gnostic state, and is pretty much the same suggestible state that hypnotists seek to induce.

 

• Releasing Deities
  
• Dismissing the Quarters
  
• Dissolving the Circle
  
• Earthing
  

 

This part of the ritual is what is sometimes called awakening in hypnosis. This is calling the participants back to reality, returning them to an ordinary state of mind, and turning the symbols they've used during the ritual back into ordinary objects.

 

Magic ritual is a form of self hypnosis with its own built in sets of symbols.

 

In spite of all that, this probably isn't what you're looking for, shalkek. A lot of people are going to be very uncomfortable with this because they've grown up in a society that too often associates magic rituals with people being flayed alive and eaten by demons and the undead. But there's a wide array of symbols here that might be adapted into something more sectarian and universal.

[CyberD]

You're looking for something similar to dream signs but applicable to the tulpa process. Dream signs, being the things that often occur in our dreams that help us to become aware we are dreaming.

Light switches and deformed reflections are just some of the signs people come across often. Other examples include being late for events and teeth falling out. Recognizing these things can help you become lucid. I know some of them have worked for me.

 

I take it you are going by this definition (thanks google)

Archetype:(in Jungian psychology) a collectively inherited unconscious idea, pattern of thought, image, etc., universally present in individual psyches.

 

By that definition the archetypes you are looking for in the tulpa process are probably already out there, they just haven't been labelled as such.

 

The only one I can think of off the top of my head would be doubt. Doubt seems to be almost universally present in everyone that begins the tulpa process. There are plenty of guides about overcoming doubts.

 

The problem is we can't create these archtypes because they already exist out there. By compiling them though we can help others, like a list of common dreamsigns help people new to lucid dreaming.

But what other archetypes does the tulpa process contain?

[Nobillis]

Kevin says:

 

Using the term 'archetypes' in the context used here, I can think of two that may apply.

 

The first is the 'stairs method' for entering the wonderland. This was basically imagining a set of stairs (say a spiral stair) that lead down into the wonderland (imagination). To go to wonderland, just imagine walking down the stairs. I first heard of this back in the 70's.

---

Another that may fit the term 'archetype' is Jung's concept of "the shadow" - the opposite of a human's personality. I get the impression that many think the shadow to be evil, but this is a pejorative view in my opinion. For me, the shadow is that part of yourself that you need to learn to accept to understand yourself. I view the shadow like 'the magic mirror gate' from The Never-ending Story: "kind people find that they are cruel".

 

Please note: it is extraordinarily unwise to make a tulpa of your shadow (edit: e.g. Hollow Ichigo). Yes, I'm extraordinarily unwise - hey, I was learning in effective isolation, more then 20 years ago - it's not like I had any useful advice available.

[Shui]

Please note: it is extraordinarily unwise to make a tulpa of your shadow (edit: e.g. Hollow Ichigo). Yes, I'm extraordinarily unwise - hey, I was learning in effective isolation, more then 20 years ago - it's not like I had any useful advice available.

 

I'm curious: why? It seems to me that getting to know your shadow better would be a good thing.

[Nobillis]

 

I'm curious: why? It seems to me that getting to know your shadow better would be a good thing.

 

Kevin says:

 

For me, it was in the end a good thing. I'm aware however that there are a lot of younger tulpa makers on the site, and what is possibly a good thing for someone who's been making tulpas for a decade would probably be unwise for someone to try as their first tulpa.

 

I didn't try this until after I had three very strong tulpas who were quite able to protect themselves. I don't think it would have gone as well if I'd still been as 'green' and inexperienced as I was in the 70's.