Isolation

[Guest]

There is nothing wrong with punishing criminals, they have harmed others so it is only just that they themselves should be harmed.

Now trying to rehabilitate them in addition to executing a just punishment is a worthy cause but rehabilitation should not stand in the way of just punishment.

 

Punishing is causing harm and is negative utility, no matter how you try to spin it. True morality is about minimizing harm and increasing utility.

There is no reason to punish even the worst criminal out there: not even someone like Hitler. What must be done is to prevent harm, not to cause harm to those that harm others, just so you would feel good about taking revenge. Punishing does have some utility because it can have preventive effects when dealing with sufficiently mentally healthy individuals, but it won't have any effect on sociopaths, which are rather common in the prison population. This preventive effect is the only reason why punishment even makes a bit of sense, but aside from that, it's about as evil as any other crime.

 

I shouldn't be derailing this thread, so I'll stop.

[Ned Bigby]

 

I don't see prison authorities or any authorities for that matter being enthusiastic about teaching convicted criminals how to have both visual and auditory hallucinations.

 

Unless you're teaching about how to see and hear a hallucination that's called Jesus. In which case you'd be welcome with open arms.

[Charlotte]

>not even someone like Hitler

Stop referring to people as "evil". No one is, everyone has their intentions. You can't be that shallow can you? Or would you like to me to use your name when referring to ignorance? All men are equal weather you like it or not.

This is something everyone should value. God dammit.

Sorry for such a derail but I feel strongly about this. Everyone always preaches about equality while being so hypocritical it's disgusting. Shit like this almost makes me think there is no god, what god could put up with such a mistake.

[Guest]

>not even someone like Hitler

Stop referring to people as "evil". No one is, everyone has their intentions. You can't be that shallow can you? Or would you like to me to use your name when referring to ignorance? All men are equal weather you like it or not.

This is something everyone should value. God dammit.

Sorry for such a derail but I feel strongly about this. Everyone always preaches about equality while being so hypocritical it's disgusting. Shit like this almost makes me think there is no god, what god could put up with such a mistake.

 

I was just using an example of a person most people think of as morally reprehensible. I don't consider any particular person "evil", but I do think most people perform morally reprehensible acts in their lifetime, some more than others.

 

And while we're at this derail, I will add a bit of trolling: doing evil to prevent evil is still evil (current justice system), and something you'll like: using copyright to fight copyright is still "evil", which is why MIT/BSD/public domain is better than GPL (now I've done it Charlotte).

[Gray]

 

Unless you're teaching about how to see and hear a hallucination that's called Jesus. In which case you'd be welcome with open arms.

 

I'm pretty sure that even in American prisons they would have "If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia." attitude.

 

Punishing is causing harm and is negative utility, no matter how you try to spin it. True morality is about minimizing harm and increasing utility.

 

That's your opinion of morality, someone else might consider true morality giving to each what they deserve whether they deserve good or evil.

[Charlotte]

I was just using an example of a person most people think of as morally reprehensible. I don't consider any particular person "evil", but I do think most people perform morally reprehensible acts in their lifetime, some more than others.

 

And while we're at this derail, I will add a bit of trolling: doing evil to prevent evil is still evil (current justice system), and something you'll like: using copyright to fight copyright is still "evil", which is why MIT/BSD/public domain is better than GPL (now I've done it Charlotte).

 

How do you even know me?

Anyway

I still think it's extremely rude to give someone the burden of being the ultimate anything. I don't care for the reason, it makes you look very shallow and ignorant. Would you actually say that to their face? Family? To me it's just blaphemous to all sentient creatures.

 

And I respect all open source licenses. While I only support GPLv3, I stand by the freedom of using any license you choose. I don't so much as think all software should be free rather than there should be software made to be free. I consider GPL to be like an anti-murder law. And while some places may be lax on murder (like during witch hunts when they killed people for looking weird) some licenses are lax on turing that software into proprietary software. Which ever one you believe is fitting for your software and point of view is what you should choose. But if you really care about keeping freedom you would choose the GPL. If not so much, or you just don't care, MIT or BSD is fine.

 

Something even Stallman said, there isn't a "good" or "bad" anything. It all matters in the situation and in which matter the subject is used. Though so far I haven't found any good reason to have proprietary software. But who knows, I'm sure there's at least one.

 

I can't say much about the "evil" on "evil" thing, just that when one starts a fight a war errupts. It's the vicious circle of fighting for what you believe in, but submitting could mean oblivion.

[Guest]

 

How do you even know me?

Anyway

I still think it's extremely rude to give someone the burden of being the ultimate anything. I don't care for the reason, it makes you look very shallow and ignorant. Would you actually say that to their face? Family? To me it's just blaphemous to all sentient creatures.

 

It was merely an example of a person which people think has done many morally reprehensible acts. There are probably people who have done far worse, but are not as well known in history. If you don't like me using any particular person, you're free to substitute any person you think has done sufficient amount of morally reprehensible acts.

[Charlotte]

It was merely an example of a person which people think has done many morally reprehensible acts. There are probably people who have done far worse, but are not as well known in history. If you don't like me using any particular person, you're free to substitute any person you think has done sufficient amount of morally reprehensible acts.

 

I could name many for many acts (And there are multiple dictators who have killed many more people, Adolf is like in 5th place or something, people are usually just to lazy to learn about them). Though I don't speak of any names, I just suggest an act (like "someone who has killed millions", not naming anyone nor giving them a burden of being labled).

 

We've all probably already suffered enough from a multitude of things from being labeled ourselves to just remembering certian things from those labels or any label in general. Why keep the tradition going? It's much more civalized and proper to generalize sentences.

[Ned Bigby]

I'm pretty sure that even in American prisons they would have "If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia." attitude.

 

I don't know about that dude. There are a lot of mainstream churches who say that god will talk to you, or that the holy spirit will talk through you to your congregation. And they go on to say that if these things don't happen then something is wrong with your faith.

[Guest]

Guest is right, though. We've designed a selfish system based on revenge. We only truly care about ourselves, and when someone does us harm, we want to do that person harm as well. What if we humans did no harm to begin with? The world would be a much better place, and there wouldn't be any need for prisons holding up those that want to commit mischief. However, we have a thought pattern based on greed and jealousy, and history will never stop repeating itself.

 

Humans are insanely fucking stupid, as pointed out by Einstein (well, he didn't say "insanely fucking", but he said "infinitely"). Or, at least, the majority of them... few people with great morals have seen the light. Sadly, these are often the ones to be oppressed by the majority. Oh, how I hate the majority.

 

Go to Denmark. We're a society that treats each other with respect. There are no poor people and the less-than-good positioned are helped to get a better living, there are almost no homeless people and those that are homeless are often invited in to institutions housing homeless, our prison system is luxury compared to e.g. Dumbassmerica, centered primarily on rehabilitation, our punishments are usually mild, education is completely free (in fact, you get money as a student so you can afford an appartment), and so many other good things.

 

tl;dr: Yes, we (you) are all dumbasses. Go to Denmark.