Use of Psychedelic Drugs Severely Hurts Tulpa Info Credibility

[Guest Anonymous]

So what you're essentially saying is that since some people view us as nutcases (in the same while that other people view us as 'multiples', and include tulpamancy in multiplicity and whatnot, making it normal), it's okay to look like drugheads. Because, hey, if you're in a grave, why not dig deeper? Why not give a worse image of you?

 

What I find funny is that essentially, the whole drug usage takes off all the legitimacy to the eyes of the public, one day people will understand that it is very possible and 'normal' (to an extent, I still use that term loosely) to make a tulpa, but when drugs are mentioned they'll go "Oh, those people are drug addicts, that's why. None of what they have is actually there, it's just a big phony illusion caused by drugs."

 

I have literally learned nothing from your post, though. The whole morale you mentioned at first doesn't even make sense, if you did bother to read the multitude of posts that pointed out as to why this community should absolutely NOT promote the usage of drugs in direct correlation with tulpamancy, you'd understand what the point is. Just because some people hold negative opinions of tulpamancy, it doesn't mean it grants YOU the right to dig a grave for others any deeper. By promoting the usage of drugs, you don't involve yourself only but everyone else bearing the 'tulpamancer' tag, you're involving this entire community (unless specified otherwise). A lot is going unsaid due to rules and whatnot, too.

[Yakumo]

I do understand your point, even though it bewilders me how much emotions this subject seems to bring up. Yes, some of the drug reports do make me feel uneasy, especially if they are giving inaccurate information on usage procedures or advocate unsafe practices. I do my best to correct them and give advice where I can, even though my experience is mostly theoretical.

 

But I do not believe that moral lectures will keep people from wanting to try out psychedelics. Educating them in proper risk assessment and teaching them to be responsible individuals who are capable of making their own decisions is a better option. In many ways, not just related to drugs. We are, as Sartre put it, condemned to be free, and as such must learn to take responsibility for our actions without the need of a government, god or other 'surrogate parent' to constantly tell us what we are and what we are not to do.

 

As for the why, maybe I am too much of an utilitarian but to me all that counts is if a procedure works reasonably well. So it is not about why, but about why not. It is true that you do not have to use these substances but for some people they can bring tremendous and truly life-changing breakthrough experiences. And as stated the risks are bearable if things are done properly. In the end sola dosis facit venenum, only the dose makes the poison. I absolutely see no moral reason why you should not use them per se. You just should not use them recklessly.

 

As for the reputation, I also think this is just a contemporary bias in our society. Over the largest part of human history the use of psychedelics was seen as something positive or even sacred and was linked and often restricted to certain persons and events. Only in recent decades as things became mainstream, psychedelics inevitably also got into the wrong hands and their reputation went down the drain and was associated with apathetic stoners or crazy hippies.

But giving in to the prejudice of others while ignoring scientific evidence is pathetic and cowardly. I have little care about the general view of a bigot society. If they see everyone who tries out psychedelics as a dirty drug addict that should be put in jail for moral reasons while their unhealthy lifestyle is a far greater burden on society, joke's on them.

 

I would therefore see it as our mission to promote an educated, safe and modest use of psychedelics. Fact is that a considerable fraction of tulpamancers uses these things and completely banning any discussion would be narrow-minded and kind of a lie in my view. Honest discussion is always a better option than tabooization (what a weird word!) I also don't think that many people will start to use psychedelics because they are working on a tulpa, in all reports I can remember people were using them even before they came across tulpas.

Point is, drugs are not bad per se, just as poison or weapons are not bad. They are only bad if used inappropriately. None of them should be freely accessible to everyone but they should not be generally banned either. It's all about finding the right path between two extremes.

 

And yes, I guess *mostly drug free thoughform* would be more accurate. Sounds somewhat sketchy though.

[Guest Anonymous]

For the record, I have never called for a complete ban of discussing psychedelic drugs and tulpamancy. I simply stated in my OP that if you admit to using them you can damage the credibility of of the tulpa community and your own and that these drugs are dangerous and unhealthy. Both statements are valid. It is true that these drugs have a bad reputation, whether or not it is deserved. It can damage credibility and the drugs are dangerous.

 

I also talked about my concerns for young teens, one of my primary reasons for the OP. I want them to be informed about these drugs, not persuaded to use them! Gods it is a simple concept I am promoting. How is it getting muddled with talk about the psychedelic drug use in ancient history and other cultures? What has that to do with my statements in my OP? Also, teens need to consider these drugs are currently illegal to possess or use. While we are giving them informed choices, let's remind them of that.

 

Later on in the thread I was suggesting we have a general statement on CAUTION about using these drugs, not a outright ban on discussing it. Right now the only words are advocacy and there is little about abstinence.

[Yakumo]

I do think we have several pro and con posts so it's a pretty balanced discussion.

I didn't mean to derail your thread but this topic needs context. There are no simple answers to complex questions which is why I do have a problem with your simple statement. But please don't take it as a personal attack. The world is not black and white and while 'drugs are bad' is a catchy slogan, it is neither accurate nor universally true.

I highly respect that you want to teach the following generations something valuable. But please don't let ideologies blind you.

 

Drugs can be dangerous, especially if used without care, but statistically, the greatest health risks are obesity, lack of physical activity, malnutrition, tobacco and alcohol. These are by orders of magnitude more likely to kill you or at least severely impair your life than any psychedelics. Both fat and sugar are highly addictive substances that, if consumed in excess will cause enormous health problems over time.

Who informs children about that?

Noone cares because that topic doesn't trigger people like drugs which, as we see in this thread, instantly cause hysteria.

 

I am by no means promoting the use of psychedelics by young teens nor am I stating that they are completely harmless, but I vow for an unbiased and open discussion that is solely based on facts and not upon personal opinions.

 

Valid points against the use of psychedelics:

As you stated they are illegal and possession can result in draconian punishment and stigmatization.

This is a very real, however also highly questionable concern. Basically we are teaching our children: 'If you do X the government will put you in jail and your life will be ruined. Their actions don't really make sense and are not based on scientific facts, but hey, who cares? Just obey and don't ask questions!'

This is a dangerous development and unworthy of a modern democratic society.

 

The second point is that criminalization pushes production and distribution of these substances underground, into the hands of organized crime and outside of quality control. This is the main reason I am not considering using such stuff. Neither do I want to deal [sic!] with such individuals, nor pay horrendous prices to get questionable quality. All this could easily be avoided by a careful and responsible legalization as it is already being done with cannabis in several regions.

Things are slowly changing but it is still a long way. As long as society is governed rather by irrational fears than scientific facts it cannot hope to make qualified decisions. If you constantly have to worry about your reputation or if you might offend someone you will never be as productive as someone who can voice his opinion freely and without fear of prosecution.

 

Furthermore I do not see how this whole drug discussion should hurt the forum credibility. The psychedelics forums are far more mainstream than the tulpa related ones and if you ask me the use of psychedelics is also far more accepted by both society and the scientific community than the concept of tulpas will ever be. The idea that our imaginary companions may become mainstream in the foreseeable future is naive at best. Maybe among certain circles of young teens but the idea of adults with anime girls or ponies living in their head will always be seen as a form of mental illness by the vast majority of people. My prediction is that they'd rather legalize LSD before accepting that.

 

And lastly if you want to hear about abstinence, I have never taken any of the mentioned drugs. I don't even drink coffee. There you have it, my tulpa is a truly drug-free thoughtform. Yet I do not condemn anyone who chooses to use psychedelics responsibly.

 

TL;DR

Taking psychedelic drugs on a regular basis while your brain undergoes massive reorganization during adolescence may not be the smartest choice, however there are far greater dangers to your health that largely go unnoticed.

Risk perception generally tends to be heavily biased as our brain is poor in evaluating diffuse long-term risks that do not tend to show immediate effects.

Perceived yet greatly overblown threats that are unlikely to affect your or your childrens lives:

Terrorism, Ebola, drugs

Realistic yet highly underestimated threats that will massively affect your and especially your childrens lives in the future:

Climate change, environmental degradation, unhealthy lifestyles, especial over- and malnutrition in combination with a lack of physical activity.

 

No one is stating that psychedelics are harmless and should be freely available it anyone. But the drug hysteria, especially in the US is contradicting all scientific evidence and is doing more harm than good.

[Guest Anonymous]

My OP was not about our entire modern culture and how it perceives psychedelic drugs. It wasn't about decriminalizing drugs. It wasn't about the scientific validity of the dangers of psychedelic drugs. It wasn't about hyped up threats. It wasn't about the health risks of junk food and lack of exercise.

 

Furthermore I do not see how this whole drug discussion should hurt the forum credibility. The psychedelics forums are far more mainstream than the tulpa related ones and if you ask me the use of psychedelics is also far more accepted by both society and the scientific community than the concept of tulpas will ever be.

 

Even if the psychedelics forums are "more mainstream" that does not mean they are regarded with high esteem. I think it is a bunch of dope heads discussing their drug trips. I have no respect for it at all.

 

The discussion of psychedelics being used in the process of making tulpas may make it appear that tulpas are only the result of drugs. That is the concern I raised in the OP.

[Yakumo]

Yes, I perfectly understand your position but I view it as a personal opinion backed up by little facts. I did provide you with facts in a broad context. Whether you choose to consider or ignore them is your decision.

 

Apart from that, does this forum really give the impression that drugs play an important role in tulpa creation for a significant fraction of users? Maybe I've missed something but I just don't see it.

Anyway we should not overly concern ourselves with how things might possibly look in the eyes of others but stick to facts, not prejudices.

 

I have spent some amount of time on psychedelics related forums out of pharmacological interest. Like in all communities there is a broad spectrum of users but you will effortlessly find highly educated and perfectly sane people there. You need to be if you aim to successfully extract or even synthesize chemical compounds. In my opinion these places seem more mature than tulpa forums, possibly due to the higher average age of users. I see absolutely no reason to shun them for pure ideological reasons. This forum aims to be an open-minded community so I would advocate against blind activism against a certain group of users.

But of course you are right that the use of drugs is always a controversial topic, especially considering the low age of many of our users, and in the end it is up to the forum administration to decide where and to what extent a discussion of drugs is permitted.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, I have succeeded in one thing. I wanted to see more of a balanced discussion on this topic. With this thread I think I can see it. There are arguments on both sides of the issue, but at least my opinion got to be aired. At least the forum discussion threads about drugs, as a collective whole, are now a bit better than just completely neutral or leaning in favor of the use of psychedelic drug use in relation to tulpas. What good it will do for the world, or for the tulpa community, I have no idea. It may make no difference at all. But I feel better and that is pretty cool for me I guess.

 

I like that you feel that the impression that the tulpa community "might be all on drugs" isn't yet a reality. I'm so glad it isn't yet and I don't want it to ever be that way. I would rather we eventually gain some measure recognition and respect, especially in a scientific sense.

[waffles]

Mistgod, rereading some of this thread I remembered that I forgot to address your original point. It does hurt credibility to talk about psychadelics here, in a certain esoteric way; you can't exactly pass it off as the kind of mediation that someone might read about on BBC.co.uk or whatever if a significant portion of the practitioners do scary drugs.

 

I know I said it before, but this is your demographic and I can't help but feel like you're applying the standards of your generation. Consider a world where being constantly stoned is not only acceptable but socially desirable, and hallucinogens are a more common form of recreation than watching television. In this strange world, "Weed might help you and your tulpa communicate" is about as revulsive as "Orange juice clears forcing headaches".

 

As alien and terrible as it sounds, this is a world that many members here live in, even if they don't partake. Of course, this is an internet fringe culture so you wouldn't expect there to be many older people, I guess. Maybe it's a surprise that there are as many old people around as they are; then again, from my memory most of them had made their tulpas when younger. Still, I can't help but think that tulpas appeal most to a younger crow, not just because it's a reasonably radical proposition.

 

 

 

Definition of psychedelic - something related to drugs that cause hallucinations or altered consciousness. Sounds more severe to me than having a buzz from a beer or being a bit edgy and hyper from caffeine.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3830167/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019188691000591X

 

Both rare, but you know. Abusing them can cause hallucinations, so worth knowing.

 

You're right when you say that they're legal, but you should stop there. Alcohol, at least, does do way more damage than most other drugs, and not just because everyone uses it - Yakumo already posted a thing about it. Defending it saying "It's socially acceptable" is one thing - and absolutely right. But that's not because it's less harmful.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks so much for the discussion Waffles. You definitely kept the thread going and brought in arguments from multiple perspectives. I can relax and feel content that at least the issues are being discussed and not just passed over. I may be bringing in an "olderish" bias perhaps. That assertion may also be an unfair simplification as a way to brush my opinions off as out of touch. It may be just this particular venue (as in mind trippy sub-culture) is less inclined to agree with me. I would not be surprised to find there are plenty of young internet savy "kids" elsewhere out there who would support me on this. I have little doubt I could find plenty of anti-drug support from my students at the high school in about fifteen minutes.

[Kmeprz]

None of this silly stuff regarding debates between 13 teen year old edge-miesters and D.A.R.E. enthusiasts, I just have one thing to say:

 

Shrooms and LSD have expanded my awareness of the world. I wouldn't use them for a means to the end of creating a tulpa though. Just go camping with at least one sober person you TRUST COMPLETELY and let the drugs warp your mind for a few hours. I don't advocate extended use, but whenever you feel like life is meaningless or that you have no purpose, just go and join nature, listen to some killer music, and learn that we are all as one on this little blue dot.

These drugs are not toys, and they are not tools. They are windows to the truth.

 

Yini:

yeah and its scary too sometimes

especially if mean people you dont know come to your house

or when you feel like every thing is shaking apart

 

[Me: The trick is to make sure you remember that you're tripping, and that no one wants to hurt you. Unless you were an idiot and took the drug in a toxic environment. In which case, RIP.]