Use of Psychedelic Drugs Severely Hurts Tulpa Info Credibility

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh, alright, I apologize, then, I'm not quite cultured in that domain.

 

Correct. Those variations don't seem to be really different, and let's face it; A tulpa made with those 'enhancers' might as well be just as 'good'/normal as a regular tulpa made with the 'old' methods. What does concern me is how much of a basis you have for the tulpa essentially 'made with drugs', or a tulpa that had heavy interference with those drugs, and then again, it really goes down to WHAT drug you use. And the whole 'lack of credibility for the community' claim, regardless of whether those claims are true or not, is based on the fact that since you can see a lot of things when you do drugs, a tulpa/thoughtform/anything-in-your-mind might be issued from that. I heard of people who say their unborn tulpas in dreams in very early stages; Some people would point out to good signs, others would point out to it being 'just a dream', regardless of what it is, the evidence there would be is that 'OH, you did drugs, you did drugs so heavily, no wonder you have someone in your head, what a delusion' (I disagree with this claim however, that was just an example.) Anything related with 'drugs' overall, even if drugs can be good, some of them can be good in moderation AFAIK, tends out to come out as bad. This whole thing... me discussing the drug&tulpa thing is not issued out of a bias against drugs, but more of a concern about the actual tulpa.

 

The main reason for which I started posting here is that my tulpa said the following: 'I know the effect of drugs on the mind, as someone who has been exposed to the mind and how... sensitive it is in a direct way.. you should never do drugs. When you made me, I got to know the 'real' you when you forced and all of that, so if you did drugs back then, I wouldn't have gotten to know YOU, I wouldn't have developed that whole affection for how great YOU are, and wouldn't have fallen in love. This is the effect of drugs. They're not evil, but they heavily alter how the mind functions, in an alarming way, too!'. While this won't be considere as an argument, I agree to some extent.

 

 

The main idea of the (and I am assuming) hypothetical scenario is that; A person would seek to make a tulpa, and use drugs as a good way to, say, visit the wonderland, or have more 'vivid' communications. As I said before, the effect of the drugs (and we'd have to be specific as to WHAT drugs are being used, for instance, to see what effect they actually have outside of tulpamancy, then see how relative the impact is on each user but that's really far off since this is only a conversation we're having), instead of, well, not using those drugs and 'taking your time', to put it in simple terms.

 

I believe that a moderation in the usage of those specific drugs can be beneficial to an extent, but shouldn't be relied on as a whole thing for tulpa development. My tulpa is fully against the usage of drugs because of how exposed she's been to how the mind CAN be altered. 'Even though it can make communication more vivid, you have no idea of how it can be for the tulpa, what other thoughts may come in, the whole hormones rush, how scary it can be, and even then, it may not be 'you' you, it would be someone else. Why make a tulpa smoke or do those drugs if the result will be horror, then? It can be, you don't know the perspective of a tulpa, true horror.'

 

I can understand outliers, but, again, I believe that a lot of people just 'pretend', and going further into that would probably result in people reading this thread getting hurt about the implications I could be making, so I'd rather not discuss it more. My point is that drugs aren't all evil, but I think that the natural, tedious (no sarcasm here this time, heh) way is one I would rather take, not because of what my tulpa said, but first, because of the basis I'd have with that way, a better basis (in my own opinion) than making use of drugs, because then the 'You did drugs that's why you're hallucinating' argument could kind of 'stand' on its own in a discussion on whether my tulpa is real or not, and I think that personally, I'd prefer consistency in how I deal with my tulpa.

[Guest Anonymous]

In my own personal experience, I have trouble even remembering rules (let alone following then) when I don't understand why the rule exists. For that reason, I'd rather see a discussion of drugs and their effects than I would see a generic warning not to do them.

 

Best counter argument of the day. To be fair, waffles did say a little about giving people pro and con information on these drugs. What bothered me about the existing threads about drug use was there was a stronger lean by members (so it seemed to my eyes - but admittedly I am biased) towards advocating the use of the substances.

 

Admittedly, what set me off big time last night was having a mod tell me my post was "condescending" and attention seeking. I am so tired of that attention seeking label, even if it is well deserved. I will write a lot on the forum and I don't necessarily think it is always just about seeking attention. I was sincere on this and passionate about this issue. Obviously.

 

I would still like to see an official stance or statement from the Tulpa Info forum at least in discouragement of psychedelic drug use. Honestly, I would love to see it in the Guides. "Use with exteme caution. We highly recommend against it." Where is that? Why is that not a simple thing for us to do?

[waffles]

Oh, alright, I apologize, then, I'm not quite cultured in that domain.

 

Winners don't use comic books.

 

 

'OH, you did drugs, you did drugs so heavily, no wonder you have someone in your head, what a delusion'

 

Okay, fair point, I can see that.

 

 

'Even though it can make communication more vivid, you have no idea of how it can be for the tulpa, what other thoughts may come in, the whole hormones rush, how scary it can be, and even then, it may not be 'you' you, it would be someone else. Why make a tulpa smoke or do those drugs if the result will be horror, then? It can be, you don't know the perspective of a tulpa, true horror.'

 

You'd say? Not an experience I can claim to be mutual. I mean you know, I have a tulpa too. I'd probably discourage experiences of 'true horror', honestly.

 

 

I can understand outliers, but, again, I believe that a lot of people just 'pretend', and going further into that would probably result in people reading this thread getting hurt about the implications I could be making, so I'd rather not discuss it more.

 

Eh, you're not gonna offend me. But, same thing. You still have to label all experiences that don't fit as something, be it pretending or something else.

 

 

My point is that drugs aren't all evil, but I think that the natural, tedious (no sarcasm here this time, heh) way is one I would rather take, not because of what my tulpa said, but first, because of the basis I'd have with that way, a better basis (in my own opinion) than making use of drugs, because then the 'You did drugs that's why you're hallucinating' argument could kind of 'stand' on its own in a discussion on whether my tulpa is real or not, and I think that personally, I'd prefer consistency in how I deal with my tulpa.

 

Eh. Sure. I guess I can hardly take issue with that, since it's so non-prescriptive.

 

 

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I am so tired of that attention seeking label

http://i.imgur.com/yIo1QI0.png[/img]

even if it is well deserved.

http://i.imgur.com/Adh5ttd.png[/img]

 

 

I would still like to see an official stance or statement from the Tulpa Info forum at least in discouragement of psychedelic drug use. Honestly, I would love to see it in the Guides. "Use with exteme caution. We highly recommend against it." Where is that? Why is that not a simple thing for us to do?

Maybe because sushi just said that he wouldn't want a generic warning

[Guest Anonymous]

 

http://i.imgur.com/yIo1QI0.png[/img]

http://i.imgur.com/Adh5ttd.png[/img]

 

Hah hah hah hah! Shit. Well God damn it.

[Guest Anonymous]

Maybe because sushi just said that he wouldn't want a generic warning

 

How about a generic warning AND the discussion? Impossible?

 

(crap, sorry bout the double posting, it was inadvertent)

[Bambi]

I'll admit that I haven't read every single post on this thread, but pretty much every answer here is . . . well, to be blunt I'd say it makes half of us out to be complete idiots.

 

To those of you who've done this: I don't care what your excuse is--Mistgod and Melian are right when they say that the use of this crap has hurt the community. Sorry. Hate to burst your bubble, people, but you're not perfect. If you've done this heavily, you've helped screw us over. It does nothing to make us look like we're not nuts. You realize that, right?

[Guest Anonymous]

. . . well, to be blunt I'd say it makes half of us out to be complete idiots.

 

If you've done this heavily, you've helped screw us over. It does nothing to make us look like we're not nuts. You realize that, right?

 

Ouch! Well, Mistgod and I were trying to be a little less hostile in the message. But we do agree that the specter of "psychedelic drug trips" doesn't help the communities image at all. Also, psychedelic drugs are totally unnecessary for making a tulpa. So why do it? Any supposed benefits don't justify the risks to health and image.

[Yakumo]

The absolute majority of the population will always view us as complete idiots and totally nuts. Not because of the use of drugs but because of the concept of tulpas itself. There are several forums dedicated to psychoactive substances and the users there appear a lot more 'normal' than those in tulpa forums. As said, the use of psychedelics is by far more accepted than tulpamancy even though both have most likely always been a part of humanity.

From an ethnological point of view both concepts are tightly interlinked, most cultures have been known to utilize psychedelics to reach an altered state of mind, either combined with or as an alternative to meditative techniques. We know by far less about the latter but I think it is reasonable to assume that shamans or priests regularly conversed with entities like gods, spirits or spirit animals that could be classified as tulpas.

 

Therefore I would say it is nonsense to view the use of psychodelic substances to aide or enhance the interaction with tulpas as 'unnatural' or see it as an analogue to a doped athlete gaining an unfair advance over his competitors. Tulpamancy is not a sporting competition under comparable conditions but a highly subjective and personal experience.

 

Don't get me wrong, I perfectly understand and respect the point of people who want to reach their goals by willpower alone and without the help of additional substances but I don't think it gives them the right to judge others. In the end everyone has to find his own personal path.

 

Now a few words on psychedelic 'drugs'.

Personally I think the term 'drug' itself is a bit misleading as we associate drugs with addiction while by definition any chemical compound that has a biological effect on an organism is considered a drug. Which is just about anything.

 

Current drug risk assessments rank classic psychedelic substances like LSD or Psylocybe Mushrooms lowest, with the risks being almost exclusively temporary mental impairment. Others like Salvia have no toxicity or addictive potential at all. The by far most dangerous drug both to the user and to society is alcohol, followed by heroin and crack (see attachments). Most recent updates indicate that the risk of tobacco has been greatly underestimated and that the overall damage caused by smoking appears to be at least in the category of crack and heroin if not above.

 

Isn't that ironic?

The only two legal drugs in fact cause much greater harm than all the illegal ones. How can that be?

I call it the climate-change effect.

The point is that we humans are incapable to correctly evaluate diffuse long-term risks. A person under obvious drug influence may be scary and disgust us but we tend to forget that such conditions are rare. Both in society and within the life-history of such individuals. No one takes psychedelics like LSD or mushrooms on a daily basis or over a significant period of their lives. These are episodic events that tend to cause little harm as tragic as some accidents may be (but they are even rarer). Smoking or consuming alcohol has by far less drastic immediate effects but often occurs frequently over decades and in a high percentage of the population, which has an enormous impact on the individual and his environment.

 

The psychedelics craze, especially in the US is mainly the result of Timothy Leary's escapades in the 60s. If that idiot hadn't overdone it there probably would be a far more relaxed and realistic attitude towards these substances.

 

In my opinion the whole drug craze and war on drugs in the US was a huge mistake, an enormous waste of money and resources and lead to nothing but pain

and gain for the drug cartels

. No country has as many prison inmates per population, many because of minor drug crimes like possession of marijuana.

 

To make this clear, I am strictly against handing out drugs to anyone, that's what ruined LSD in the first place. People should be educated and guided towards a responsible use of such substances and should prove themselves ready and worthy first. But criminalizing them without distinction has equally done much harm and thrown research back for decades. Many patients could profit enormously from these substances. We must become aware that our acceptance for some harmful drugs like alcohol and tobacco and the strict criminalization of others like LSD is purely ideological and contradicts all scientific evidence.

But I think and hope things are improving. At least if we look at weed which has recently made it on the cover of National Geographic.

 

So as to Melian's signature:

I hope you are aware that alcohol, nicotine and caffeine are classified as psychoactive drugs as well. I love the irony that people who are violently against any psychoactive substances most likely take far more harmful drugs for recreational uses themselves.

So next time you educate children about the dangers of drugs tell them you drink alcohol which is way worse than trying LSD or Magic Mushrooms under proper supervision. Please don't spread the decades-old propaganda any further. Look into my first link on drug risk assessment by Professor David Nutt and the attachments below.

 

TL;DR

I'm not saying that psychedelics are harmless, but trying them most likely will harm you less than eating unhealthy fast food for most of your life while lingering in front of your TV.

 

Protip:

if you want to deal with psychedelics you should learn about them first and have some trustworthy people to take care of you. Be smart, stay safe and you will find great insights into life, the universe and everything. Be reckless and stupid and you'll be kill. That's evolution at work.

That's it, you just learned something. You can thank me later.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

TL;DR

I'm not saying that psychedelics are harmless, but trying them most likely will harm you less than eating unhealthy fast food for most of your life while lingering in front of your TV.

 

Protip:

if you want to deal with psychedelics you should learn about them first and have some trustworthy people to take care of you. Be smart, stay safe and you will find great insights into life, the universe and everything. Be reckless and stupid and you'll be kill. That's evolution at work.

That's it, you just learned something. You can thank me later.

 

A very reasoned and comprehensive response. I do thank you. Still, what do we as a community want as a general message (perhaps in the guides) about the subject of psychedelic drugs (or illegal drugs in general) and tulpamancy? Currently it is "mums the word" and stay neutral. The attitude is "hey, kids are already experimenting with it and we are already thought of as weird so why bother with a message?" I would love to see a more responsive statement of at least general caution on the front page or in the guides on this subject. I probably never will, but it would be nice.

 

As for alcohol being dangerous, you are absolutely right on that. It is unhealthy and dangerous and certainly shouldn't be used in tulpamancy either. Also, there are far, far more alcohol related deaths and accidents than most other drugs I do believe. BUT still alcohol is legal.

 

So Melian's signature? Hmmmm, "Proud to be (mostly) a drug free thoughtform 'cept for occasional alcohol and caffeine. Oh and junk food!"

 

Public perception and understanding of tulpamancy could still be damaged by reports of psychedelic drug use, in my opinion, despite any realities about the actual dangers of these drugs. Yeah, we are thought of as nerdy freaky weird, but as of yet, not total dope heads AND nerdy freaky weird. I am still not understanding why we want to mix tulpamancy with drugs when we don't have to. Sorry, but I just don't get it.

 

EDIT: Oh and about alcohol and caffeine being "psychoactive" drugs... Melian may get overly hyper or silly on alcohol or caffeine, but she has yet to have a "bad trip" or have a flash back days or weeks after the fact, just saying.

 

EDIT2:

 

Definition of psychoactive - affecting the mind or behavior . Hell that could be any drug, even over the counter medications. In the short run caffeine seems pretty harmless to me. Alcohol, yeah it is dangerous to abuse it. Low doses of it can be healthy for you however. Wine with dinner never hurt anyone unless they drove a car soon after.

 

Definition of psychedelic - something related to drugs that cause hallucinations or altered consciousness. Sounds more severe to me than having a buzz from a beer or being a bit edgy and hyper from caffeine.

[Bambi]

I agree that alcohol is the bad crap of all bad crap (and it being legal means very little to me, to be honest. just because something is legal doesn't make it right . . . but that's a different thread for a different time), but--well--pretty much everything that Mistgod and Melian just said. This is a corny thing to say, perhaps, but when someone is "oppressed" or "looked down on," that doesn't give them the right or the permission to go off and do whatever they want; that is to say, just because we're viewed as crazy doesn't mean that we should take a bunch of drugs because, hey, why not? We're already crazy, right? No.

 

Of course, if the fact that so little is known about tulpamancy in general is perfectly okay with you (and I'm talking to the general population here) and you're content with doing more harm than good, fine. All I'm asking is to not complain about how misunderstood you are later--and yeah, I've seen people doing this here, through private messages.

 

EDIT: As far as the "judging others" stuff--as much as I would like to say we should all just shut up and mind our own business, it doesn't work that way. No matter how good someone thinks they are about not judging others, *they're gonna judge others*. Period. I don't necessarily know if that argument really belongs in this thread, to be honest.