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[Misc] Memories and dream staging
Guiomar Offline
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#1
 
Memories and dream staging
I'd like to talk about two techniques we came up with (Lydia did most of the work) regarding memories. Both of them are used to help us share memories and/or feelings regarding specific subjects. Those are bundled memories and dream staging

Bundled memories


This method can help you share memories with your tulpa as sometimes (in my case at least) the way they are linked together can prove challenging for the tulpa to access by themselves. As tulpa001 said it's for people who use "episodic emotional triggers" to index their memories.

Method:
1. Calm your mind and think clearly about a subject. Let related subjects pop up. If you have ever made a mindmap it works the same way: you think about the required subject and then follow the links. Now take the first 5-10 memories that come to mind. For each of those visualize a specific image or feeling that is strongly linked with this memory.

2. Now, think about your tulpa and visualize yourself giving those memories to them so they can look for the links between those memories and try to look for the same links to other memories you didn't specifically think about.

Caveat
This method works quite well for us but there are some caveats:
1. You have to be completely open while doing it and be ready to give some follow up memories if your tulpa has trouble following certain links. This may be the case if they don't understand a subject.
2. Does not work if the tulpa wants access to memories you either want to keep to yourself or you don't want to think about. From her point of view it's like walking in a hallway and seeing a walled off doorway. You can see that there was a door there, you can pretty much tell the size of the room from the outside but you can't get in.

Personal experience
Here is some background: One morning while drinking coffee I asked Lydia if there was something in particular she wanted to ask me (I wanted to stimulate her a bit so it was "open ended question time"). She started asking questions about topics she clearly knew were making me a bit uncomfortable (eg times where I didn't behave according to my principles or topics I preferred not making her aware of). She then told me it was neither smart nor constructive to try to hide things like this because she could tap directly in my memories. She made her point using the well known "well if you're so good, try not thinking about that thing".

Conversation drifted (I preferred to talk about that, actually) toward how she saw my memories. She described a jumble of thoughts, feelings, skills and knowledge that was indexed in the weirdest way. For a quick example: most of what I know about physics wasn't easily accessible by looking neither for maths nor specific keywords such as "integrals" but rather by following the thread of feelings of gratitude toward a specific teacher. From what I understand, when I'm consciously responding to a specific stimulus it is easy for me to bring up the relevant memory. When she wants to access said memory it's much harder since she has to "skim" my conscious mind without disturbing it to find threads she can follow down to this specific memory. If it's about something I'm doing right now then it's easy and she can just "hook into it" but that's rarely the case.

She told me this made her work quite difficult and that she ended up spending a lot of time dredging through unrelated memories when she needed to know a little background about the way I felt about any subject.




Dream Staging

This technique uses a bit of self hypnosis. The idea behind it is that, as you fall asleep, you surrender control to your tulpa and let them induce  some kind of pseudo lucid dreaming. In this state you let your tulpa direct you. Since while dreaming it seems you have an easier access to thoughts and experiences you have chosen to suppress because they are painful or cause you cognitive dissonances. Those that are not forgotten but you avoid thinking about. You can do the heavy lifting while the tulpa directs the overall experience. If your tulpa wants access to specific feelings/memories you have  they can help you access them and interact with them (often as a dream metaphor).

Method:
If I'm feeling tense I use the same breathing technique I use to stay on top of adrenaline rushes in sports:
- breath in: 5 seconds
- hold: 5 seconds
- breath out: 5 seconds
- hold 5 seconds

Then:
- Try silencing intruding thoughts and focus on the tulpa (we usually talk and I focus on that)
- Make your own inner voice more and more quiet, focus on observing the tulpa.
- Slowly start "retracting" your perception from your whole body towards a specific point in your brain stem let your tulpa know that everything out of the realm of your perception is their's to control, let them acknowledge it.

- As the tulpa "takes the driver's seat" try not interrupting their thought process. Keep observing and let them act as they see fit, calm your mind and open yourself. Expose your thought process to your tulpa.

- if you start feeling lethargic, let yourself go but keep listening to your tulpa. The goal here is for you to stay between complete sleep and consciousness. The tulpa's job on the other hand is to direct you into remembering those feelings and memories that you are suppressing.

-if you feel like going completely to sleep it's OK, as long as the tulpa stays awake and can communicate with you.


Caveat:
It usually stops working during nightmares and/or violent dreams (think wake up screaming or punching the wall) she tells me it takes some practice on the tulpa's part to prevent the "main dreamer" from just going off the rails. If whatever's been brought to the front is too much to handle it's better to let go and focus on something else.
NB. I haven't had one of those since we started doing that but she tells me there were times when it was touch and go for a while.

It isn't always fun.

Personal experience

While using this method Lydia tells me I give her a better access to my thought process, especially the part I keep hidden from myself. While she is doing it it seems I'm more open to suggestion and can do the heavy lifting of bringing repressed feelings and such to the surface to interact with them (with or without her assistance, sometimes she participate others she just watches).

Lydia, once again (feels like she is doing all the work) came to me with another suggestion: meditate before going to sleep. To be more specific, as I go to sleep, surrender control to her. I wasn't that into it at first (first thought that I couldn't silence was "what if she messes up with my head?" to which she answered "I'm already in there and believe me there isn't much I could do to make it worse") but we gave it a try and it was quite interesting.

Basically what happened is that she would either set up quite a complex dreamscape (or hook into one I made to modify it, I'm not sure) and then use that to interact with me. She would alternate "thinking" phases where I interact with "hard" topics and "relaxing" phases where it's almost plain dreaming. The first two or three times she dedicated more time to the "hard" phases and while it was useful it wasn't very pleasant. I almost decided to quit doing it but I kept faith in her.

To me it felt like completely surrendering control. During the most lucid moments of the "dream" it feels a bit like being an actor directed by someone else (depending on how subtle the suggestion is). I wouldn't attempt it if you have trust issues you need to work through.

Sometimes during the dream I would look at someone and know it was her even if it looks nothing like her (she then quickly disappears or distract me from that particular fact about the character she is playing), other times not so much. In the morning just as a wake up she gives me a little "credit roll" where she tells me who she "played" during the night. Usually it's multiple characters that just "pass through" (she tells me it's hard for her to hold multiple conversations at once and still make it believable for me and if she stays with one character for too long then I start giving her too much attention and it becomes increasingly hard to stay inconspicuous) It's quite interesting and also give us a good conversation topic during breakfast.

From her point of view
It's like going through a dusty and unkempt library to look for a specific book and do house cleaning at the same time.


Conclusion
We hope this will give you some ideas, I'm not sure it's "real" forcing since the dream part I'm (mostly) passive.

If you are conscious enough during a dream it's great fun to try to "spot the tulpa". What seemed to work in the beginning was to look at the eyes, she looked more real than everything else and most important she looked like the only person in there with a purpose I couldn't discern. Also if as soon as you really start looking closely at a dream character they quickly makes a hasty exit then you probably spotted the right one.

 Lydia also uses some tricks such as jumping between characters quickly depending on the context so they do not get spotted. Cassandra hasn't mastered such tricks so she usually stays in the background.

All in all it helps find conversation topics. During the little "credit roll" I usually tell her how I felt about each character she played (along the lines of "Did or didn't like it, you were overacting, reminded me of [...]") and give her a little performance rating. I almost always miss some of her appearances, even if in hindsight I can identify most of them. Then during breakfast if there was a topic that I felt strongly about we hash it out so I can put my finger on what was disturbing/stirring and why.

Thank you for reading.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2017, 07:53 AM by Guiomar.)
08-17-2017, 08:57 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#2
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
A large part of the first half of this post is a recounting of personal experiences.

If you want your tip/guide listed here, it should follow basic stcucture.

Title:
What it does

1 Steps to doing it,
2 Steps to doing it,

discussion.

I don't even know what it does until I read the third section currently.



Interesting. It is worth noting that she is essentially reindexing your memories when she commits your memories to her memories for fast access.

This method appears to have a limited audience, as very few people use episodic-emotional triggers as a primary indexing method except for episodic memories themselves.

Oh, look, a second technique. This was not made clear at the start.

Second technique has same problems.

-Second the method, copy error, duplication.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
08-18-2017, 03:08 AM
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Guiomar Offline
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#3
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
(08-18-2017, 03:08 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: A large part of the first half of this post is a recounting of personal experiences.

If you want your tip/guide listed here, it should follow basic stcucture.

Title:
What it does

1 Steps to doing it,
2 Steps to doing it,

discussion.

I don't even know what it does until I read the third section currently.



Interesting. It is worth noting that she is essentially reindexing your memories when she commits your memories to her memories for fast access.

This method appears to have a limited audience, as very few people use episodic-emotional triggers as a primary indexing method except for episodic memories themselves.

Oh, look, a second technique. This was not made clear at the start.

Second technique has same problems.

-Second the method, copy error, duplication.

Not sure I completely understood what you meant but I tried following your suggestions by editing in place. Is it better?
08-18-2017, 08:13 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#4
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
The copy error is still there. (in the section titled the method)

Looks like you got to the main thing I noticed. I'll let other GAT members comment.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2017, 08:36 AM by tulpa001.)
08-18-2017, 08:33 AM
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Guiomar Offline
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#5
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
(08-18-2017, 08:33 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: The copy error is still there. (in the section titled the method)

Looks like you got to the main thing I noticed. I'll let other GAT members comment.

Thank you, I had to read it three times before I spotted it...
08-18-2017, 09:53 AM
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Sands Offline
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#6
 
Default  RE: Memories and dream staging
General tag is only for tulpa creation guides. This one should use the Misc tag instead.


Bundled memories:

Quote:…tulpa to access by (him|her)self

It's quite acceptable in English to use "themself/themselves" even if not a plural when talking of a person of unknown sex. You can definitely go with him/herself or something if you wish, but you could also go with something else. Similarly instead of saying "she" in your guide when talking about a tulpa whose gender you don't know, you could say "them" or "their" etc. Picking a gendered pronoun and sticking it is just fine too, though. Or s/he or something. This goes for both of your tips.

Quote:"send" it to her so she can look for the links between those memories and try to look for the same links to other memories you didn't specifically think about.

Start of the sentence should start with an upper case letter. Also you speak of a "her", but you have yet to define it in your guide what you mean with this. I assume you mean the tulpa, so you should probably write that instead of her. Like, "send it to your tulpa…". Though "show" might be a better term to use than "send".

Guide sections aren't really for your personal experiences, but as this isn't just pure personal experience, there's some leeway. Personal experiences can be useful in guides, after all. Just consider if you want there to be more of your personal experiences in a tip meant to help others than the actual method itself.


Dream staging:

You mention that it uses switching, but I can't really see where it would do that based on your explanation?

Quote:The dreaded subconscious topic

Alright, so. As tulpa.info is trying to aim for a more scientific community and have some basis in science, talking of a "the subconscious" is not really the way to achieve that. Especially when you refer to it as something like "the" subconscious, which makes it sound like a place or like, a single thing or entity. Subconscious is also a word that has been taken over by various new age-y stuff and always has been very poorly defined, so it's not a good word choice. Scientific communities talk of "unconscious" things rather than "subconscious" – but that doesn't mean "the" unconscious is any better, because it brings with it the same issues. The ancient models of these "the" subconscious places are very outdated and don't have much of a place in our current models.

Think hard what it is you are trying to say and see if you can work around that or just say you're talking of unconscious memories or thought or desires or feelings or whatever it might be.

Quote:s?he

Did you intend to use the question mark here?

Quote:Give more and more space to the tulpa. I usually visualize an elevator (sometime I take it with her, other times she waits for me down in wonderland).

Steps like these can be difficult to explain, sometimes just stating the basics is clear (like I'd consider send/show in your previous tip even without any extra explanations), but giving more space to the tulpa might not be quite to simple to most. Just giving an example of symbolism doesn't cut it here, as it's too personal. Do you have any non-symbolic ways you think you could explain this step to the readers? Keep in mind that there are people who don't have any experience who also read these guides, so some things can be quite difficult to grasp at first to them.

How you follow that step also is quite personal despite it being a pretty important next step: don't write about what you did or felt, write what we should do. If you think adding what you also did or felt is useful, go ahead – but it's something extra, not the whole thing!

Same thing about the personal experiences as in the comment about the last tip, plus the stuff about "the/my subconscious".

The conclusion adds some nice extra things to consider.


Overall the first tip is written better, I feel. Basically approvable at this state, though think of the suggestions. The dreaming tip has some weird pseudoscience and too personal touches in it that I think you should work on.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
08-21-2017, 09:25 PM
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Guiomar Offline
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#7
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
(08-21-2017, 09:25 PM)Sands Wrote: 1. General tag is only for tulpa creation guides. This one should use the Misc tag instead.


Bundled memories:


2. It's quite acceptable in English to use "themself/themselves" even if not a plural when talking of a person of unknown sex.


3. Start of the sentence should start with an upper case letter.[...]


Dream staging:

4. You mention that it uses switching, but I can't really see where it would do that based on your explanation?



5. Think hard what it is you are trying to say and see if you can work around that or just say you're talking of unconscious memories or thought or desires or feelings or whatever it might be.


2.1 Did you intend to use the question mark here?


6 How you follow that step also is quite personal despite it being a pretty important next step: don't write about what you did or felt, write what we should do. If you think adding what you also did or felt is useful, go ahead – but it's something extra, not the whole thing!

7 Same thing about the personal experiences as in the comment about the last tip, plus the stuff about "the/my subconscious".

1: Fixed

2 & 2.1: Force of habit, I removed all the regex I peppered my post with. Fixed?

3. Fixed

4. From what I understood of the lingo switching is a surrendering of control to the tulpa, you take the passenger's seat and "let them drive", but I might be mistaken. Removing since I probably used the term wrongly. Fixed?

5. Fixed and made more specific.

6. Fixed, I think?

7. Fixed?

I think I made most of the corrections you suggested but as usual there's a slight risk of misunderstanding on my part, hence the question marks.
08-22-2017, 07:48 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#8
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
4. No that's a thing common to several forms of fronting.

"I understand that the following way: if you bring up a memory out of the blue (no external stimulus) you will have a specific image/feeling associated with it."

Umm, had you written this before? Because that sounds wrong. You were talking about memory access, and this is embedded sensations. The way it is written.

"Express a thought about a subject and take, say, the first 5-10 memories that come to mind."

This is more vague than I remember. What does express a thought mean? Could mean anything. I remember this being clearer. Definitely don't be afraid to give an example so people know what you are trying to say. But also definitely use precise language.

" "Show" it to them"

Um, show it to them? Vague. I don't understand what this means.

"she can look for the links between those memories and try to look for the same links to other memories you didn't specifically think about."

You introduce links between memories here. I know what you are talking about, but you are essentially pulling the idea out of nowhere from the perspective of a fresh reader.

Also, you are inconsistently gendering your example tulpa.

"You have to be completely open while doing it and be ready to give some "follow up" memories."

With the context provided so far, a reader is not going to know what "follow up" memories are. You did not introduce them yet.

I'm ignoring the discussion part's content, as that is not the payload section, and you can put whatever theory you want there.

"Personal experience:
First some background."

Two points. "First" but it is after everything. And personal experience may be an accurate name but it is not a great section name.

What I'm guessing happened is, you originally wrote this with the personal experience first, providing context. In response to my concern that you did not introduce the method until several paragraphs in, you moved the personal experience section to the end, and added an introductory paragraph (which I think is *still* vague in explaining what the method is). But moving the section cut the method steps off from the context the section provided. You need more cleanup. Beef up the method steps. Clarity. Precision. Go ahead and harvest content from your personal experiences to provide example if you want.

Also, remember the basic rule of writing structure: say what you are going to say (introduction), say it (steps), say what you said (conclusion)

When making changes to your document always preserve clarity and readability. I will be approving solely based on how clear and precise it is at this point. The rest is all good enough.



Okay, dream staging.

This section is not started with a description of what the technique is. Instead, it jumps directly into theory. Ignoring the theory as it is not part of the payload of the technique.

"pushed back "below the surface"."

Okay, the scare quotes are starting to annoy me. It's one of the stereotypical signs of bad writing. Stop being ironic and say what you actually mean instead.
Precision. This is a professional document.

"I have no idea whether the tulpa can do anything else beside watching and interacting with you."

Where did this sentence come from? It seems out of place. Mostly because I didn't ask if you had an idea, but partly because you don't need to tell us what you don't know, in general.

The method itself is actually perfectly fine to start with. Some decent base meditation method. You focus on brain stem for some reason. But, eh. Also, runon sentence there.

Then... the method suddenly cuts off there. You promised hypnosis and lucid dreaming in your theory section. But what we have here is a basic meditation and a control swap. This is trance possession. Or trance eclipsing. Depends on the nature of the tulpa's control.

Oh wait. Now the caveats start talking about nightmares. But... nowhere did you mention falling asleep. I think you dropped a step?

What does "NB." mean?

Ignoring the rest as it falls outside the payload section.

"We hope this will give you some ideas, I'm not sure it's "real" forcing since the dream part I'm (mostly) passive."

No need to hope. It does. And it totally counts. I mean forcing is when you let your tulpa think.

Yeah, it's worse now. Here is what I think happened. Sanders told you to stop using the "subconscious" for "reasons" so you replaced all the examples with "scare quoted synonyms". Which is 110 times worse. Yuck.



tl;dr:

I remember it all being a lot clearer, though it had some other flaws.

Remember first priority is to communicate clearly to your audience. That's basically all you need to do to get approved. So long as it is also a guide relevant to tulpamancy, and the method makes sense.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2017, 02:09 PM by tulpa001.)
08-22-2017, 02:05 PM
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Guiomar Offline
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#9
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
Quote: 1. "I understand that the following way: if you bring up a memory out of the blue (no external stimulus) you will have a specific image/feeling associated with it.

Unclear indeed, removed.
Quote: "Express a thought about a subject and take, say, the first 5-10 memories that come to mind."

This is more vague than I remember. What does express a thought mean? Could mean anything. I remember this being clearer. Definitely don't be afraid to give an example so people know what you are trying to say. But also definitely use precise language.

" "Show" it to them"



Um, show it to them? Vague. I don't understand what this means.



"she can look for the links between those memories and try to look for the same links to other memories you didn't specifically think about."



You introduce links between memories here. I know what you are talking about, but you are essentially pulling the idea out of nowhere from the perspective of a fresh reader.

Replaced by a detailed explanation with a common example (mindmaps) and visualization.



Quote:Also, you are inconsistently gendering your example tulpa.



"You have to be completely open while doing it and be ready to give some "follow up" memories."



With the context provided so far, a reader is not going to know what "follow up" memories are. You did not introduce them yet.



I'm ignoring the discussion part's content, as that is not the payload section, and you can put whatever theory you want there.

I think I made that a bit clearer with the mindmap example..? Also I think I fixed the inconsistencies.



Quote:"Personal experience:

First some background."



Two points. "First" but it is after everything. And personal experience may be an accurate name but it is not a great section name.



What I'm guessing happened is, you originally wrote this with the personal experience first, providing context. In response to my concern that you did not introduce the method until several paragraphs in, you moved the personal experience section to the end, and added an introductory paragraph (which I think is *still* vague in explaining what the method is). But moving the section cut the method steps off from the context the section provided. You need more cleanup. Beef up the method steps. Clarity. Precision. Go ahead and harvest content from your personal experiences to provide example if you want.



Also, remember the basic rule of writing structure: say what you are going to say (introduction), say it (steps), say what you said (conclusion)



When making changes to your document always preserve clarity and readability. I will be approving solely based on how clear and precise it is at this point. The rest is all good enough.



I think I might just remove those "personal experience" sections entirely since they don't seem to bring much to the table. Perfection being when there is nothing to remove and all that.

Quote:Okay, dream staging.



This section is not started with a description of what the technique is. Instead, it jumps directly into theory. Ignoring the theory as it is not part of the payload of the technique.

I'll look into that. I'm still unsure about what this technique actually is: meditation/sharing?

Quote:"pushed back "below the surface"."



Okay, the scare quotes are starting to annoy me. It's one of the stereotypical signs of bad writing. Stop being ironic and say what you actually mean instead.

Precision. This is a professional document.
Sorry if I came across as ironic, it was not meant.
I'm looking for a word or that describe the following: memories or feelings that are unconsciously ignored because they are either painful or cause cognitive dissonances and yet actually influence your behaviour and mental well being.

Quote:"I have no idea whether the tulpa can do anything else beside watching and interacting with you."



Where did this sentence come from? It seems out of place. Mostly because I didn't ask if you had an idea, but partly because you don't need to tell us what you don't know, in general.
Will remove.

Quote:The method itself is actually perfectly fine to start with. Some decent base meditation method. You focus on brain stem for some reason. But, eh. Also, runon sentence there.



Then... the method suddenly cuts off there. You promised hypnosis and lucid dreaming in your theory section. But what we have here is a basic meditation and a control swap. This is trance possession. Or trance eclipsing. Depends on the nature of the tulpa's control.

Oh wait. Now the caveats start talking about nightmares. But... nowhere did you mention falling asleep. I think you dropped a step?
Will update that part. Since the method is called dream staging I didnt especially state the part where the host slips into lethargy then into a form of sleep.


Quote:What does "NB." mean?
Nota Bene

Quote:Yeah, it's worse now. Here is what I think happened. Sanders told you to stop using the "subconscious" for "reasons" so you replaced all the examples with "scare quoted synonyms". Which is 110 times worse. Yuck.
Yep.
08-22-2017, 05:28 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#10
 
RE: Memories and dream staging
"I'm looking for a word or that describe the following: memories or feelings that are unconsciously ignored because they are either painful or cause cognitive dissonances and yet actually influence your behaviour and mental well being."

Repressed memories and repressed thoughts. (unconsciously ignored is nonsense, subconsiously ignored is possible. Quick rule: unconscious==passed out, subconscious==wasn't paying attention, but did something anyway.)

"Nota Bene" Isolate such asides into separate paragraphs.

Looks like you either made enough changes, or are going to. Approved.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2017, 12:32 AM by tulpa001.)
08-23-2017, 12:28 AM
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