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I think she already exists


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Guest Anonymous

Esterina and I made huge progress considering the time span!

If you want to know about it, we'd like you to head over there instead. Feel free to leave us a post, too.

 

Hey, guys.

 

Mentioned this in my intro post, but I really wanna have some opinions on this, so I'll ask here... and I think it's okay to make it its own thread, seeing as how it's a sort of very individual situation.

 

Like the title suggests, I think my tulpa, the one I wish to create, already exists in some way. Let me explain...

 

You know that yourself, when you have thoughts that are "primary", at the forefront, and you can hear them as if you said them in your head - or at least somewhat like that. Right?

 

Thing is... it's been happening only very rarely, but for a while now, I sometimes feel like I hear replies / reactions in / from the back of my head.

The opinions and personality displayed by that voice, as well as the voice itself - it's always the same, and I identified them as those of Esterina.

She's a fictional character of mine (I'm an aspiring author and mangaka).

 

So, very obviously so, I have a few questions...

 

a) Is this even possible? Could she have started existing without me intending it?

 

b) The tulpa I wish to create is, of course, her. If she really does exist already, do I have to take anything into account? I wanna create her properly, I'm very serious about this.

 

c) Already knowing her personality (I made her long ago, as a character, after all), I'm pretty sure she will want me to create her five sisters as well. Or attempt to do so herself (I heard that tulpas can do that, in some cases...?). But I imagine that would be quite the mess... six tulpas? Does anyone have any experience with tulpa-spam (lel, so funny)?

 

d) Like I said, I'm an aspiring author and mangaka. And, thing is, my image of her is strictly manga-style; I even made multiple artworks of her, so I have a highly clear image. But that also means it's extremely(!!) hard for me to imagine her as a normal human. Is that problematic in giving her life as a tulpa? I mean, aside from the possibility that she might mind that; I'm not entirely sure if she would.

 

And aside from these questions, I'd be very grateful for general opinions and advice that you feel I should know about.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Greets,

AG

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a) It's not probable, but it is possible. Especially with very creative people, which can be an author/artist, which you seem to be. Knowing a character well enough that you start to know how they think and act in different situations is what I think one way to making a tulpa, which also happens to be what authors do with their characters. Of course, they're gonna have to do more than that to actually make a sentient, autonomous tulpa. It sounds like you have started associating a voice in the back of your mind to be her, so it may very well be her if that's what you think.

 

b) It's kinda difficult to tell you what to account for since making a tulpa is a very subjective experience for each person. What I would do is start narrating "to" her. I quote "to" because you need to direct your thoughts towards her. This is very important! Symbolism can help you with this. The best advice I can give you though is to read as much as you can from this site, especially the guides. There is a lot of information here that will help get you started, so make sure to read as much as you can!

 

c) Wait on the whole 5 tulpa thing until you can properly communicate with her. And wait some more to just in case. I have a lot of experience with multiple tulpas (because I have 10), but you really need to take this slow, especially at the beginning.

 

d) That's totally fine for her to have a manga-style appearance. Even with imposition, it's possible to impose them in that style, just read JDBar's imposition guide. If she wants to change her appearance down the line, I'm sure she will tell you. (All of my tulpas are in 2D (Kind of 3D?) manga-style :P)

I have 10 tulpas, but I'm only actively working on Reah, my first tulpa currently.

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you! That's some helpful answers there.

 

About her voice - I actually decided on a voice for her during the process of creating her as a character.

That's why I was able to identify that voice as hers to begin with, it matches perfectly. Well, the personality matches as well, but the voice is definitely easier to go by when it's all short and (got no better word for it) "quiet", hard to understand reactions to my thoughts.

 

And yeah, I'll start that"tulpa creation process" today.

I bookmark'd Kiahdaj's guide; it's very extensive, and very well-written. I'll start with sessions of trait-"giving" and just randomly talking to her in my head as much as I can.

Sounds good? : )

 

But you misunderstood one thing.

c) Wait on the whole 5 tulpa thing until you can properly communicate with her. And wait some more to just in case. I have a lot of experience with multiple tulpas (because I have 10), but you really need to take this slow, especially at the beginning.

About that - I don't plan on doing this anytime even close to soon.

Actually, what that question was about, was more that I'm not sure I would do that at all, and wanted to know about other people's experiences. I mean, doesn't it get really "crowded"?

Even just three or four sounds like a lot of people to "have around" all the time.

 

 

Greets,

AG

 

 

PS: Good then about the visuals thing. It's just what she looks like to me.

If she would suddenly look like a normal human, that would be weird, at least to me.

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About that - I don't plan on doing this anytime even close to soon.

Actually, what that question was about, was more that I'm not sure I would do that at all, and wanted to know about other people's experiences. I mean, doesn't it get really "crowded"?

Even just three or four sounds like a lot of people to "have around" all the time.

 

 

Greets,

AG

 

Ah, I see. Well, to put it bluntly, I'm a pretty lazy host. I'm only working with Reah on imposition at the moment, because trying to juggle between ten tulpas is ridiculous. Right now, they're spending their time in the wonderland, which I usually visit every night. Reah is the only one that communicates with me on a regular basis, so it isn't so bad for me.

 

That being said, I'm hoping that I can get to the point where I can have all of them with me imposed. It will be really crowded if you have all of them there at the same time. However, your tulpa doesn't always have to be there, and you can talk to them separately if you want.

 

I don't actually recommend making more than three to be honest, but due to my disposition, I ended up with this much. I won't be getting anymore.

 

Edit: I read your third question again. Don't assume that she'll want to have all of them to be there. I think it's important to know that your tulpa may very well turn out differently from the character you made. To avoid identity crisis and such, I recommend that you make it clear that she is not that character, even though she is based on that character. Having a backstory that doesn't exist can suck for a tulpa. Imagine your in this epic story, and then you suddenly found yourself in someone's mind, learning that everything you experienced was fake. I'm sure it might be possible to make this work, considering you made the character yourself, but it can lead to a lot of conflicts.

I have 10 tulpas, but I'm only actively working on Reah, my first tulpa currently.

Progress Report

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Guest Anonymous

Edit: I read your third question again. Don't assume that she'll want to have all of them to be there. I think it's important to know that your tulpa may very well turn out differently from the character you made. To avoid identity crisis and such, I recommend that you make it clear that she is not that character, even though she is based on that character. Having a backstory that doesn't exist can suck for a tulpa. Imagine your in this epic story, and then you suddenly found yourself in someone's mind, learning that everything you experienced was fake. I'm sure it might be possible to make this work, considering you made the character yourself, but it can lead to a lot of conflicts.

 

I just had my first attempt in talking to her in my mind.

I did what I usually do when I need inspiration for writing - taking a walk. Only without music from my earphones, so I could concentrate on any possible form of reply from her.

 

I told her about her name, what she's like, and yes, also that she originates from a story I write. I am trying my best to make her aware that she's not exactly that person, but a real one. A real person, not from a story, even if she's like her.

(She does indeed seem to at the very least have an idea about story-Esterina. At least that's my interpretation thus far, from our first "primitive" conversation.)

 

I don't wanna go overboard, but I'm very sure I could faintly make out a few replies from her, even some sorta faint words. EXTREMELY faint.

 

Like... aside from telling her about myself and about herself, I tried to give yes / no questions, and for simplicity I asked her to really just go with yes or no and transmit a happy feeling for yes or a sad feeling for no (I read in the guide that tulpas can do that kinda stuff).

 

And I was sort of not shocked, but in awe the few times I felt I got a reply out of her.

Like... I asked her "Your name is Esterina, right?", for example, as a test to see if the question game worked, and I swear a brief feeling of happiness, that feeling you get in your chest when you're just really happy, took hold of me for just a brief moment.

 

A few times I also could've sworn I heard her voice. She spoke clearly and at a normal volume, I think, but it still sounded really silent in my head and all I'm at least vaguely sure I could make out were a few "yeah"s and "alright"s.

 

The thing I was most in awe about though, which is the only exception to the former, was when I asked her if she really was around before today, and I felt a "yes" reply from her.

I then had to repeat "For how long?" multiple times because I sort of either didn't get what she replied with or didn't feel like I got any reply at all - but I swear, in the end, she said "a few weeks".

 

Which does match the amount of time that passed since I first heard her in the back of my head, so yeah, she was there!

So I was right!

 

I just can't think that this was my imagination... this is all so insane!

She's really there, and she had a chat with me! Well, more like two people separated by a wall trying to make the other hear something and then it worked a few times, but we really had a sort of chat!

 

And she really was there, I'm sure I heard it!

I told her I'm taking a break because taking a walk and still concentrating so hard on making her hear me was hard (and she seems to be fine with it), but I'll have an Active Forcing session with her afterwards.

 

I'm so terribly excited to see how it goes when I have my full concentration on her, and it'll be possible to whisper to her audibly in this room (my bedroom), so it should be easier! I'm SO darn excited! xD

(She probably thinks I'm like a kid right now... xP)

 

Sorry, going into euphoria mode right now, this is totally insane... Christ on a bicycle, this is nuts! She exists! xD

 

ARGH, I'll stop here - as in, right now.

Else I'll never stop! :D

 

 

Greets,

AG

 

 

PS: I also did a sort of "Can you see this?"-test with her. I'm not entirely sure if I interpreted her answer correctly (I asked about the object in my hand as I looked at it), not sure at all actually, but I do think she got it right. It's pretty hard to say for sure when she's so hard to hear most of the time.

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Wow, fast progress. Sounds like your doing things pretty well. Have you been working on her in some way the past few weeks? Like developing her character or imagining different scenarios and such? Also, when have you heard about tulpas? I'm pretty interested to see how things developed the way they did for you. I think the process of writing can definitely influence this, but this is just based on observations.

 

Some people would tell you that she's not sentient at this point, depending on their point of view, but that's really up for you to decide. You know yourself better than we do. Saying that, you're definitely on the right track. Good luck with Esterina. Feel free to ask more questions, I'll (or anyone else) will be happy to answer them.

I have 10 tulpas, but I'm only actively working on Reah, my first tulpa currently.

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Guest Anonymous

You mean if I wrote about her? Yeah, I did.

And I think one thing that might've triggered it is that I go into "[character] mode" when I write about / as my characters.

I take on their thinking patterns and personalities as best I can when I write, and so for her too, of course.

 

Though I really AM interested in why she turned out to "become" a tulpa, or rather why story-Esterina triggered tulpa-Esterina, and not a different character.

I guess I do have a sort of special fondness of her. I always liked her a lot as a character. Mature, smart and sympathetic, but pretty authoritarian... I just like her a lot, even if she's not an uber-central character. So I guess it does sort of make sense that it's her.

 

And now that I think about it, there was a sort of emotional scene about her some weeks ago where she died (which happens to people in that world sometimes, but the powerful ones come back over time, including her).

 

And, hmm... I don't wanna say something wrong, but if I had to answer the question "Is she sentient?", then I'd fall more towards: Yes, but it's very hard to notice yet, and I need to listen pretty damn hard and keep myself from parroting. (And even then I don't understand anything beyond yes/no answers 90 percent of the time when I do understand something, which in itself isn't the case 90 percent of the time.)

 

And a question! Yes.

About these wonderlands.

Thing is, I have a hard time imagining something first-person. I can imagine myself in a place, but doing it first-person ends up feeling weird, and things tend to be different when I look away from something and at it again (in the imaginary place, of course).

Does that matter? if it's first- or third-person?

 

 

Greets,

AG

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You mean if I wrote about her? Yeah, I did.

And I think one thing that might've triggered it is that I go into "[character] mode" when I write about / as my characters.

I take on their thinking patterns and personalities as best I can when I write, and so for her too, of course.

 

Though I really AM interested in why she turned out to "become" a tulpa, or rather why story-Esterina triggered tulpa-Esterina, and not a different character.

I guess I do have a sort of special fondness of her. I always liked her a lot as a character. Mature, smart and sympathetic, but pretty authoritarian... I just like her a lot, even if she's not an uber-central character. So I guess it does sort of make sense that it's her.

 

And now that I think about it, there was a sort of emotional scene about her some weeks ago where she died (which happens to people in that world sometimes, but the powerful ones come back over time, including her).

 

Interesting. I think going into the "[character] mode" might play a big role in it. Just speculating, of course, but it seems theirs a correlation between writers and how fast someone makes a tulpa, based on what I've seen here.

 

And a question! Yes.

About these wonderlands.

Thing is, I have a hard time imagining something first-person. I can imagine myself in a place, but doing it first-person ends up feeling weird, and things tend to be different when I look away from something and at it again (in the imaginary place, of course).

Does that matter? if it's first- or third-person?

 

 

Greets,

AG

 

For wonderlands, I would say it doesn't matter if you do first- or third-person. You can still work on the essentials from either viewpoint. Some people don't even have wonderlands, so it's not mandatory, if the idea doesn't interest you. Personally, first person is the most intimate, since your kind of right there with them.

 

It's gonna take a lot of practice to keep things consistent, especially if you're new to visualization. First time I got into it, things would get really wonky in the wonderland, and sometimes my tulpa's appearance would change into something scary or weird, mostly due to intrusive thoughts. Now though, everything is pretty stable. Just keep up with practice and things will turn out fine. There are some good guides on visualization, so be sure to read those!

I have 10 tulpas, but I'm only actively working on Reah, my first tulpa currently.

Progress Report

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Guest Anonymous

Your questions have already been answered very well by others ahead of me. I read the thread however and just wanted to say that Melian is like that, as in "the other voice" sometimes. She was like that long before I knew about tulpas. So, yes, I think it is possible that your tulpa may exist in some form already as an autonomous character. Many professional authors have reported this sort of phenomenon and there has even been psychological research done on it out of the University of Oregon under "Illusion of Independent Agency." I can find a link to the study for you if you like.

 

It isn't often that my Melian holds her own in a real back and forth detailed conversation, unless I am actively imagining (puppeting her). However, there have been many times when that other voice, in an internal debate, was not mine but hers. It is subject to personal interpretation as to what that means (whether or not that was actually Melian). I do like to think it is her and that is good enough. Since I do not hesitate to puppet Melian or actively day dream about her talking to me, it makes it more murky and fuzzy around the edges for me than for most maybe.

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