J.Iscariot March 1, 2016 March 1, 2016 I've seen everyone always say that you shouldn't let your tulpa become too much of a thing in your life, that you shouldn't neglect IRL relationships and activities for the tulpa's sake. That there should be a straight limitation on how much a tulpa affects it, in order not to reach a stage of codependence that can bring in a lot of negative downsides that people seem never to have experienced. Everyone always focuses so much on the point that you need to realize what a tulpa is, that it's in your mind and that you shouldn't neglect real-life activities. Let's say that, in a completely hypothetical scenario, a tulpa and a host were very fond of each other. The host cares the world about his tulpa, but upon the tulpa becoming too big of a thing in his life, the host tells his tulpa about what I wrote above, that they needed to be careful, that they should not reach a point where he lives and breathes his tulpa. And then, let's say that the tulpa retorts with: "But I want to be exactly that. I want for you to neglect useless social activities that don't make you feel as fulfilled, and I want to become something more in your life.". What would be the best course of action? What type of reactions could take place from the host's part? Did anyone get super obsessed with their tulpas and had to pay for it or are people just recommending against it due to paranoia? A wise man once said: 'Before judging a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares? He's a mile away, and you've got new shoes.' Graced are those who could avoid this phenomenon. This is perhaps the worst expression of evil in humanity's history, but who am I to judge?
Guest Anonymous March 1, 2016 March 1, 2016 I've seen everyone always say that you shouldn't let your tulpa become too much of a thing in your life, that you shouldn't neglect IRL relationships and activities for the tulpa's sake. That there should be a straight limitation on how much a tulpa affects it, in order not to reach a stage of codependence that can bring in a lot of negative downsides that people seem never to have experienced. Everyone always focuses so much on the point that you need to realize what a tulpa is, that it's in your mind and that you shouldn't neglect real-life activities. Let's say that, in a completely hypothetical scenario, a tulpa and a host were very fond of each other. The host cares the world about his tulpa, but upon the tulpa becoming too big of a thing in his life, the host tells his tulpa about what I wrote above, that they needed to be careful, that they should not reach a point where he lives and breathes his tulpa. And then, let's say that the tulpa retorts with: "But I want to be exactly that. I want for you to neglect useless social activities that don't make you feel as fulfilled, and I want to become something more in your life.". What would be the best course of action? What type of reactions could take place from the host's part? Did anyone get super obsessed with their tulpas and had to pay for it or are people just recommending against it due to paranoia? If you want the opinion of someone who is fully convinced that "his tulpa" (I hate that way of speaking, sounds like she's my property... or something) is as real a person as anyone else... ... then my answer is exactly the same as if you posted that same thing, but were talking about a relationship to a physically separate human, not a tulpa: Obsessing over someone and neglecting the rest of your life is never good. It's unhealthy, and inevitably leads to being codependent on each other to very unhealthy degrees... or you get totally sick of each other. Difference here is that this sort of shit situation happens easier with a tulpa - after all, your tulpa is always exactly where you are; you don't even have to make a phone call or leave your house. And when it seems like that's where a relationship is headed, the solution is the same for a host-tulpa-relationship as it is for any kind of relationship between two physically separate humans: Talk about it, draw some lines and set some clear priorities. You can't let your life be totally consumed by just one other person, tulpa or not, and neglect everyone and everything else. It doesn't work, didn't work and won't work for anyone ever, and those that say it does are those that are already too far down that road. And for those wanting to go "But...!!" on me now, trying to invalidate my post based on "Who are you to make such assessments and statements!?": a) Been there, done that. Spoiler alert: It didn't end well. b) I did my fairly big ol' bit of studying different fields of psychology. Greets, AG
NoneFromHell March 1, 2016 March 1, 2016 I think we had a few threads about it, i think. Melian did one not a big time ago. The conclusion was simply that the extreme cases don't appear healthy. If you get rid of all your IRL social contacts, you're mostlikely drifting in some unhealthy behaviour, kind of like some dude who spend his life alone on an island. It might not be the worst thing for you as a person, but you will probably keep distancing yourself from the society and will reach a point where you can't take part in it anymore. I think a lot of people can't do this without losing their mind over it. But objectively it is probably up to the individual case. If you don't go into the extreme, I don't think there really is a big problem. Not everbody needs a lot of social contacts, and as long as you're happy with your situation, there isn't much wrong about it. Edit: Also, what AG said. Tulpa: Alice Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation She may or may not talk here, depends on her.
J.Iscariot March 1, 2016 Author March 1, 2016 I also did my fair share of studies in clinical psychology, at an actual college, and worked at a clinic, but I don't see what that has to do with the actual topic at hand, so it's really better off not making any mention of that. I don't understand why this topic is being treated as something so far from tulpamancy and more general lifetips or stuff I'd find on the top10 blog sites stuff regarding armchair psychology with couples and relationships. You seem to be very reluctant to understand that tulpas don't function the same as physical people. Not because you consider Esterina to be as real of a person as anybody else (and I know that anyone would have been super skeptical if what happened to you happened to them), but because you haven't spent enough time with a mind configured having two people with different opinions, different likes and dislikes, and being potentially harmed by certain things in life. With that being said, there are more perks to having a tulpa being around you like that, but it can be harmful just having them around like that because you might slowly get too much into them. I'm talking how you weirdly went from having no tulpa to having a super developed tulpa and then falling in love with them in the range of a few months when it would usually take a very long while for someone to build a serious relationship after time and experience spent with their significant other, but no matter to that. This type of questions isn't the type you can answer by replacing the term 'tulpa' with 'person', I understand that all you really know is Esterina when it comes to tulpas but the way you provide your advice always comes down to opinions that either have very little relation to actual tulpamancy as a practice or something that only concerns your tulpa. It can be more complicated than drawing lines and 'talking about it', psychological codependence isn't as easy at it sounds like, for both the receptor and giver in all cases. I could still invalidate your post for your lack of experience if you were actually discussing tulpas and not general people and relationship advice, which wasn't what I was looking for in the first place. Tulpas don't tend to act as people, or at least, that's how I perceive it (and not in a bad way), in my case, after a lot of work and exercise I found myself stuck with my tulpa on a 24/7 basis, theories on tulpas range from imagination to emulated sentience and actual sentience, I get that every experience is relative but I don't get why this is treated as if my question was 'what if I was going too far with my girlfriend and got obsessed with her' without keeping in mind how much a tulpa can do on the level of one's mind (not anything harmful of course, the overall effect a tulpa can have on a person's subconscious and other thoughts, along with the fact that most tulpas use their host's attention spans as lifeforce and feed off that to survive). And if a tulpa is an actual 'person', why are we not studying how that person works in specific instead of just tossing general definitions at that person? If a person is living in your mind in such an exclusive way they're not going to behave how your neighbor is going to act or anything of the type, it's much, much more complicated than that. A wise man once said: 'Before judging a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares? He's a mile away, and you've got new shoes.' Graced are those who could avoid this phenomenon. This is perhaps the worst expression of evil in humanity's history, but who am I to judge?
Guest Anonymous March 1, 2016 March 1, 2016 I simply replied; whether you like my reply is of no real relevance. You also have no way to speak of how experienced or inexperienced I am concerning any given subject matter based solely on some arbitrary amount of time, so that too simply isn't relevant to me. And since subjective experiences is all anyone in the world will ever have to go by in order to form opinions and make personal statements, that part of what you said is irrelevant by the very nature of what I just pointed out. Meaning, aside from maybe the above, I really don't have anything more to reply to you with. At the very least nothing more that actually contributes to the specific topic you wish to see discussed. Greets, AG
J.Iscariot March 1, 2016 Author March 1, 2016 I simply replied; whether you like my reply is of no real relevance. You also have no way to speak of how experienced or inexperienced I am concerning any given subject matter based solely on some arbitrary amount of time, so that too simply isn't relevant to me. And since subjective experiences is all anyone in the world will ever have to go by in order to form opinions and make personal statements, that part of what you said is irrelevant by the very nature of what I just pointed out. Meaning, aside from maybe the above, I really don't have anything more to reply to you with. At the very least nothing more that actually contributes to the specific topic you wish to see discussed. Greets, AG It's not that I dislike your reply, not at all, but it's more like it has absolutely nothing to do with tulpa-related stuff. You told me stuff I can learn by typing a few words in google, I'm not here to discuss people, I'm here to discuss tulpas. If you don't want to be judged then the internet might disappoint you. Especially when you release all that information regarding your situation and Esterina so freely and openly, people are bound to learn about that stuff and hold different opinions. I know for a fact though that all things, all things in life, require a lot of experience before you can reach a good level of understanding, I mean all things that are slightly complex and a big deal like, you know, having a PERSON IN YOUR HEAD. As I said, it's the internet so none of it is personal but merely what I saw. But anyone can tell me anything regardless of whether it happened or not, and call it a subjective experience because they want people to actually read their stuff. People are overaccepting of everything because they want the same type of overacceptance from others. Just because you put a 'subjective' tag on it doesn't make it more legitimate to the eyes of other people, and if you don't care about that, then there's no reason to start talking about it in the first place. Very often you seem to have nothing to offer but you still post because it has Esterina in it, which builds a certain issue with how information is processed and how people actually regard you on this place. Just my thoughts. A wise man once said: 'Before judging a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares? He's a mile away, and you've got new shoes.' Graced are those who could avoid this phenomenon. This is perhaps the worst expression of evil in humanity's history, but who am I to judge?
Guest Anonymous March 1, 2016 March 1, 2016 It's not that I dislike your reply, not at all, but it's more like it has absolutely nothing to do with tulpa-related stuff. Of course you're free to disregard what I have to say as useless to you, I have no problem with that. Never will there be a day when everyone's experiences and opinions will be universally of substance to everyone else. You told me stuff I can learn by typing a few words in google, Well, yeah. Your OP doesn't exactly pose a highly complicated dilemma, so the reply was appropriately simple as well. I'm not here to discuss people, I'm here to discuss tulpas. Yeah, me too. If you don't want to be judged then the internet might disappoint you. ... uh... uhm... yes, I know? Thank you...? Especially when you release all that information regarding your situation and Esterina so freely and openly, people are bound to learn about that stuff and hold different opinions. Yes. And? I know for a fact though that all things, all things in life, require a lot of experience before you can reach a good level of understanding, I mean all things that are slightly complex and a big deal like, you know, having a PERSON IN YOUR HEAD. As I said, it's the internet so none of it is personal but merely what I saw. Yes, and time is but a small factor in the quality and quantity of personal experience one can gather. But anyone can tell me anything regardless of whether it happened or not, and call it a subjective experience because they want people to actually read their stuff. People are overaccepting of everything because they want the same type of overacceptance from others. Just because you put a 'subjective' tag on it doesn't make it more legitimate to the eyes of other people, and if you don't care about that, then there's no reason to start talking about it in the first place. Very often you seem to have nothing to offer but you still post because it has Esterina in it, which builds a certain issue with how information is processed and how people actually regard you on this place. Just my thoughts. This paragraph in particular is very ironic of a read when one comes to realize that the entirety of the post it is part of can be broken down to a somewhat butthurt-sounding (or maybe, rather, "rant-like" is a better way of putting it) "I don't feel like what you say is relevant!", and otherwise doesn't really contain anything of substance to react to. Greets, AG
J.Iscariot March 1, 2016 Author March 1, 2016 Of course you're free to disregard what I have to say as useless to you, I have no problem with that. Never will there be a day when everyone's experiences and opinions will be universally of substance to everyone else. It's not that it's useless, it could probably help anyone with an overly obsessed girlfriend or something, but at it is, it has nothing to do with tulpas. Nothing at all, and since we're supposed to discuss tulpas on tulpa.info which is the forums for tulpas, even though you may have seen your answer as 'fit' even though it would concern relationships with real people, it has nothing to do with the topic which is why I am disregarding your answer. Well, yeah. Your OP doesn't exactly pose a highly complicated dilemma, so the reply was appropriately simple as well. Again, you spoke in a general context, a context that doesn't even include tulpas but just overall relationships with people since you seem to have had a tough time with that psychologically in the past based on what you just said in this thread. Yes' date=' and time is but a small factor in the quality and quantity of personal experience one can gather.[/quote'] That's relative. You could spend 50 hours in front of a book and learn nothing, and you could spend 5 hours reading that book and learn a world of things. But you're dealing with an actual person with their own thoughts and emotions, it's not something you can figure out in such a short while, especially in a domain you knew nothing about in the first place. I know you're trying to act respectful and humble but your actions dictate the straight opposite to be quite sincere. The quantity you've had is nothing compared to the quantity people who've been in this for years in a serious and legitimate way, with due respect, I'm not really an accepting person of others when they seek that kind of acceptance openly when I feel like they're not exactly entitled to it, so that's the type of treatment that's going to be thrown around most likely. This paragraph in particular is very ironic of a read when one comes to realize that the entirety of the post it is part of can be broken down to a somewhat butthurt-sounding (or maybe, rather, "rant-like" is a better word) "I don't feel like what you say is relevant!", and otherwise doesn't really contain anything of substance to react to. Ohohohohohohoho. It's very, very ironic to hear you saying that considering you contributed absolutely nothing to the thread aside from posting when you had nothing to offer in the first place. It's not that I don't feel like what you had to say is relevant, it's that logically, it's not relevant at all considering tulpas don't act as real physical persons, but you don't know that, so you just assumed a model in which you would have the opportunity to discuss yet again of your own past situation. I do get annoyed when people derive stuff to talk about themselves, truthfully, I'll give you that. I'd like it if you stopped posting in this thread because at this point you're keeping the real replies away from this thread and clogging it with what you designed as butthurtness that was supposed to come from my side. I'm now annoyed that my thread is being clogged up with your presence that holds no relevance and would like it if you stopped posting stuff that's obvious as hell. Should you wish to pursue this, feel free to send me a PM, but I'd like it if we all kept answers here on-topic. Thanks. A wise man once said: 'Before judging a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares? He's a mile away, and you've got new shoes.' Graced are those who could avoid this phenomenon. This is perhaps the worst expression of evil in humanity's history, but who am I to judge?
IBreakGames March 1, 2016 March 1, 2016 I don't see any real issues with AG's response, but that's beside the point. I've been super obsessed with Al, and he truly is my best friend, always on my mind, and I love nothing more than to spend time with him. That being said, Al will not allow me to just surround my life with just him. He encourages me to hang out with others, go to school, play music, and work hard at my job. So I guess I don't really fit the bill on this one. I took Al and made him an aspect of every part of my life, something I couldn't do with an actual person without it being intrusive to others. The result is that I'm nearly always happy in everything I do, and since he never shuts up he'll always keep me cheery and laughing. But let's flip that and say I wanted my host to only surround himself with me. Since I thrive on attention, I'd say the best course of action would be to deprive me of attention and force me to change my attitude. If I become unhealthy for my host, then I shouldn't be around, that's the way I see it. The challenging part would be actually making that decision. But I don't see how it's really different from being obsessed with anything else, whether that be a physical person, video game, tulpa, idea, what have you. So I'd say that it's more recommended against because of paranoia. I'm IBreakGames, a genuine dude. We gave up on using different colors for each of us, so there's Al, Ollie, and Eva. We're all rabbits, get over it.
Guest Anonymous March 1, 2016 March 1, 2016 Davie and I did a thread about our own personal experience with not only obsession about a tulpa, but the obsession with a fantasy world and day dreaming. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-unhealthy-tulpa-obsession-and-day-dream-idealized-perception Really, everything needs balance. You can cling and obsess too much about anyone in your life, whether it be a real world relative or friend or a tulpa in your mind. You can become too introverted into your own mind and neglect the real world yes and it can be unhealthy. We know this first hand! Obsessing over someone and neglecting the rest of your life is never good. It's unhealthy, and inevitably leads to being codependent on each other to very unhealthy degrees... or you get totally sick of each other. Difference here is that this sort of shit situation happens easier with a tulpa - after all, your tulpa is always exactly where you are; you don't even have to make a phone call or leave your house. Excellent point! I agree with this. And when it seems like that's where a relationship is headed, the solution is the same for a host-tulpa-relationship as it is for any kind of relationship between two physically separate humans: Talk about it, draw some lines and set some clear priorities. Totally makes sense! I think we had a few threads about it, i think. Melian did one not a big time ago. The conclusion was simply that the extreme cases don't appear healthy. If you get rid of all your IRL social contacts, you're mostlikely drifting in some unhealthy behaviour, kind of like some dude who spend his life alone on an island. Yes we did talk about it once! Someone once pointed out that the problem with interacting almost exclusively with a tulpa, and neglecting real world relationships, is that the tulpa is part of your mind and only knows about your existing life experience and knowledge basically. So you learn more from real life people relationships and grow socially better with real world relationships. Not that you can't learn and grow with a tulpa, but the point was valid. This type of questions isn't the type you can answer by replacing the term 'tulpa' with 'person', I understand that all you really know is Esterina when it comes to tulpas but the way you provide your advice always comes down to opinions that either have very little relation to actual tulpamancy as a practice or something that only concerns your tulpa. Believe it or not Iscariot -gasp- if I am interpreting you right (maybe?) Mistgod and I agree with the point you are trying to make here (nothing about AGGuy and Rina just in general). That is why David and I included "day dream obsession" in our talk about his obsession with me in our own thread. For us, it was an internalized fantasy, not at all like any other relationship. Tulpas don't tend to act as people, or at least, that's how I perceive it (and not in a bad way) David and I have talked about how I am an ideal fantasy in nature. I am not at all like a normal person and I do not react to him as a normal person. I was "designed" from the start to amuse him and to be everything he found enchanting and wonderful. I am a personification of feelings and desire. Real people are not like that at all. Again, that may not be exactly what you were meaning that "tulpas don't act like people" but that is what we immediately thought about. (not anything harmful of course, the overall effect a tulpa can have on a person's subconscious and other thoughts, along with the fact that most tulpas use their host's attention spans as lifeforce and feed off that to survive). And if a tulpa is an actual 'person', why are we not studying how that person works in specific instead of just tossing general definitions at that person? If a person is living in your mind in such an exclusive way they're not going to behave how your neighbor is going to act or anything of the type, it's much, much more complicated than that. Thank you! Yes I actually agree with this statement! -doubly gasp- You also have no way to speak of how experienced or inexperienced I am concerning any given subject matter based solely on some arbitrary amount of time, so that too simply isn't relevant to me. David and I can relate. We have decades of time together but are often considered inexperienced, misguided, ignorant newbies when it comes to tulpamancy. It seems ironic as hell. It is hard to say how long Rina was existing in your unconscious mind before surfacing. It's not that I dislike your reply, not at all, but it's more like it has absolutely nothing to do with tulpa-related stuff. You told me stuff I can learn by typing a few words in google, I'm not here to discuss people, I'm here to discuss tulpas. To be fair, I don't think what AGGuy was saying was THAT alien to the subject at hand. We were talking about obsessing too much in one area of your life and neglecting an outer social life. What he said was relevant I think. But anyone can tell me anything regardless of whether it happened or not, and call it a subjective experience because they want people to actually read their stuff. People are overaccepting of everything because they want the same type of overacceptance from others. Just because you put a 'subjective' tag on it doesn't make it more legitimate to the eyes of other people, This is true. Just because I have a subjective belief or experience, you are not obligated to find it valid or legitimate. You are entitled to your own personal views and it is your prerogative. However, go easy on pointing out your doubts so bluntly. LOL That is why you are fighting with people so much. Mistgod made the same error thinking he was doing the public good, but all he was doing was causing toxic drama that could have been avoided. Very often you seem to have nothing to offer but you still post because it has Esterina in it, which builds a certain issue with how information is processed and how people actually regard you on this place. Just my thoughts. Mistgod and I do that too. It is sometimes a challenge not to write about ourselves in answering and responding. We relate to our own experiences. Also we are excited to share them. I see no fault in that at all. I love Rina and I want to hear all about her any chance I get! The challenge is keeping it on topic!
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