Questions about the attitude towards and life with Tulpas

[Guest Anonymous]

It wasn't just you.  It was everyone who responded to me.  I think everyone automatically assumes I am "anti-tulpa."  I am not anti-tulpa.  I am just well, I just have a way of looking at things that sometimes seems irreverent.  Some of the writing on this thread seemed to be an attempt to elevate a tulpa relationship above a human relationship in quality or to dismiss the need for human relationships.  That's ridiculous.  Maybe I am misreading others just as I accuse them of misreading me.  I always feel like I am here to cut through the hype crap on this forum with a toxic dose of reality.  In my opinion it is very unhealthy to withdraw from the real world into your own mind like a state of social autistic catatonia.  Trust me I have experience with that.  

 

It's not a good thing.

 

I've always had friends, I didn't make a tulpa to expand my social circle. It almost seems like a step in the wrong direction to me, if that's what some people are making them for. 

 

Exactly.  Although that is precisely what I did with Melian and it wasn't altogether healthy.  I made Melian to make up for something missing in my life, love and companionship.  It helped and still does.  But I still need relationships with biological human beings to feel complete and happy.  

 

If I got stranded for years on a deserted island, I would have Melian for company and that would really help a lot!  But I would still be very happy, we both would, to see that rescue ship arrive and to see people again.

[Some Kind Of Robot]

Don't do it! Unless you really want to. It is a major responsibility.

 

How do they make life better? Why do you assume they do? The answer is deeply personal, and always will be.

 

 

I think I can balance the heavy responsibility, and 'cause of my past failures I know the issues and don't want to go through them again, so I'll commit 100% if I give it another shot. I do have a question, though.

 

In your opinion, is motivation and reason a factor in that responsibility before making one, or does the motivation and reasoning come from having one?

 

Anyways, thank you for replying!

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It was THE SINGLE most profound moment of my life and I'm not ashamed to admit I cried like a baby while she was talking to me.

That day was the day I took back control of my life. Not to say I haven't had obstacles to overcome since then, but now I have hope.

 

I think stories like this really do counteract the theory that Tulpas just mimic human functions. Something like this, I think, could really only be possible by an intelligent thing with emotions.

 

And I wonder, too, if Tulpas give a much more raw emotional experience because they have a direct connection to your brain centers?

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I'd liken it a lot to playing a video game. Video games are great fun, you can immerse yourself in their worlds and pretend you're really there. But sometimes, just for a second, you might realize you're not in a fantastic medieval world, you're just an average joe in suburbia sitting in front of a glowing box in a dark room letting your flights of fancy carry you away to a better place, one that doesn't exist.

 

As far as immersion goes I can throw out that sense of reality pretty easily, Im the daydream type, but I find it interesting that the flow of a tulpa, in otehr words the immersion, can be broken. What is that like? Is it just realizing you're sitting in your room talking to something in your head, or something more earth shattering?

 

shaking off that reminder they're just essentially imaginary friends, then you should have no reason not to make one. They act on their own, think for themselves, and can give you genuinely insightful advice (which makes them feel more real, not using that an example of their practicality). If you can just ignore the fact you're talking to a wall, it may as well be like talking to someone else.

 

 

The bit about insightful advice put a lot in perspective for me. Tulpas have an infinite amount of personality quirks and opinions, no? Its not like this is new information to me, but its like those times you realize how massive the universe is. Would you say Tulpas are exactly as complicated as a real human being, or is it something different? Also, I think you're right in saying I have no real reason not to do it, theres not much I could lose going through with something like this.

 

I have a lot of theories about how tulpas work, but when I'm talking to Scarlet, I really don't care about any of it, I'm just talking to her like I would anyone else. It's more beneficial to me and my happiness that I fully believe in my tulpa, because I want to.

 

 

Reading all the replies and stories I was starting to think about this. One thing I was pretty afraid of was that I had tried to break down the whole science behind the thing for a while now, and that the whole person-to-person aspect would be ruined. But from what I can see, when you talk to your Tulpa, the science, theories, and doubts lose their importance because its no longer about them being a Tulpa, its about a connection between two people. I think it can be compared to psychology. You can study patterns and trends in personalities and conversation, but when you talk to someone it breaks that down and becomes a more human connection.

 

 

 

After having mine for four years I can definitely say the "novelty"

 

I think novelty has a connotation I didn't want to put out there. What I meant to say here was that initial motivation you get when you discover something new and exciting. Novelty is a pretty bad term to use when talking about something with complex thought and emotions.

 

But, I sympathize with you because I've considered the same things you have, I wondered if they were emotionally practical if you're not a spaz on a hypetrain. I recommend you try making one, like not just make one but bond with them, see how you like it.

 

I'd really like to thank you for replying here and leveling with me. I think me and you have pretty parallel views on Tulpas, and everything you said put my inhibitions to rest. I always saw really excited people fresh to the idea riding that initial wave of motivation through the early processes of forcing, where theres not a lot of interaction, the more grinding parts of the experience, and just when that wave died down they would get to the more interactive parts that give their own motivation. That seems to be how most people get it done around here and I thought I might have been too late. So again, Bin, thank you a lot for writing this, it really helped me out with this.

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I find the formula "it's all in the mind" quite funny : Everything is all in the mind. Even what you percieve from other humans is just in your mind. What we call reality is entirely created by our brains from outer stimuli that we get with our senses. Tulpas are the same, they just don't need senses to be percieved. This makes them even more real than any other human being. I mean real in the way that there are fewer possible doubts about their existence.

 

 

I think I'm being misunderstood here. What I meant by that was just that theres no physical aspect to it, and it being contained in your mind means that it's quite to hard to surprise and emotionally move people if you have a connection to them like that. But, from what I've gathered more and more, that all doesnt matter. Instead of interactions with a Tulpa being just that, It seems to be just like a normal interaction with a person. Sorry about the misunderstanding, I probably could have worded that better.

 

 

 

 

I'd like to add something : You seem to be reaaaaally scared of being misunderstood here. Don't be, just express yourself. If you then see that you weren't clear, just explain again what you meant ! This is why this post became a wall of text ! You just repeated a few times something like "don't worry I'm not judging, don't worry I'm not asking for justification of tulpas". Just go ahead, throw your thing and then wait and see ! :D

(Cora: We wish you the best anyway. I think he was a bith harsh in this last paragraph, but i assure you he really means no harm ! )

 

Yeah, sorry about that, I really got carried away with those disclaimers. I think its 'cause its dicey ground when you're talking about something that people have put hours upon hours of effort into and love unconditional in this semi-objective light.

But yeah, those disclaimers turned a picket fence to the great wall as for as walls-o'-text go.

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Yes, I do have very many emotional memories about Melian.  I consider her a person, even though she is a facet of my own mind and imaginary in nature.  

 

 

I honestly find that the pure care and affection you have towards Melian is a testament to how much this experience means to a person. If something as spectacular as that bond and friendship can be made through this process, I doubt the small intricacies, doubts, and specificities really matter in the end.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree

[Some Kind Of Robot]

 

Really though, if you're thinking about it, I'd say think a lot about it. Not that having a tulpa is the huge responsibility that people make it out to be, beyond the first round of thinking them into existence, it's just like, imagine having a roommate in your mind. Like with regular roommates, you share the sink, the fridge, and the space, but you gotta respect each other and look out for each other too, or else you're gonna wind up with a bunch of dirty dishes and an argument on your hands.

 

 

This analogy is pretty amazing, honestly. I never had really thought about the casual side of the friendships and all that, I had seen it as some momentous undertaking and not just a chill time with a friend past that initial step.

[Akecalo]

[*]When you made your Tulpa originally, did you have many friends and wanted something more, or did you use it to substitute human friends?

When I acquired (or began to) my first tulpa I was too young to have any motivation in particular in her construction. Her presence was of use to me at the time. I most definitely did not create either of my tulpas to replace human interaction. I do not consider it likely that interaction with a tulpa could replace human interaction for one specific reason. I agree with Mistgod, Tewi, Sock and others who have noted that interacting with a tulpa is different to interacting with an external person. Not worse, just different. If you are looking for human interaction, find a human. If you are looking for tulpa interaction grow a tulpa. Don't confuse the two, or you will disappoint yourself.

 

[*]Does the reason you originally made your Tulpa still apply and effect you to this day?

I don't know. I don't know why I originally made my first tulpa. I think that the motivation changed over the time that the process was taking place. A tulpa that works is kind of a fluid thing, in the way that people are fluid. They develop over time. At least, that is true of our system.

 

[*]Are the experiences you have with your Tulpa as special and memorable as those spent with human friends (To clarify a little more, do you have those memories that make you feel that deep pit in your chest, really moving moments? I feel like something like that would be really hard with a Tulpa, considering its all in the mind, making it really hard for a moment to just take you away)

My tulpas have saved my life on a number of occasions. This is not hyperbole, I mean that they have saved my life and had they not been there I would not have survived. So I suppose that you could say that these were really moving moments. Apart from those times, then yes, I can say that we have memories that make us feel that deep pit in our chest, of really moving moments. The moments I spend with them are as special and memorable as those that I spend with human friends, they are just different.

 

[*]What would you say to someone on the cusp of doing this thing like me?

I likely wouldn't say much at all. Creation of a tulpa is a deeply personal experience. It is up to you to decide whether you are up to it, or desire to make the effort to achieve it. I think that the posters that I have mentioned above have said useful things. Stevie made a nice analogy, that probably applies to our own experience.

 

Having a tulpa (or two) can be a very rewarding experience when it works out well. It has been for us. On the other hand, we have seen people mess themselves up with guilt and stress, becoming mired in despair because they feel that the process is not progressing as they thought it would. If you think that you would to be likely to experience that, it may not be worth it. Don't do that to yourself.

 

In short, I suppose, do it if you really want to and are not going to unduly stress about the process, because it can be great. The process itself can be great. But make sure that you really do want to and if you think that you as a person are more likely to get mired in the negative concerning the process, think carefully before you begin, as you don't want to leave yourself stressed with a feeling that you didn't achieve or complete what you set out to do.

 

Most cases that I have seen turned out to be rewarding for the 'mancer, if that helps.

[tulpa001]

I think I can balance the heavy responsibility, and 'cause of my past failures I know the issues and don't want to go through them again, so I'll commit 100% if I give it another shot. I do have a question, though.

 

In your opinion, is motivation and reason a factor in that responsibility before making one, or does the motivation and reasoning come from having one?

 

Anyways, thank you for replying!

For me the responsibility comes from the fact that your thoughtform might be sentient. You can't neglect your thoughtform once you started for the same reason you can't neglect a baby.

 

Now, that doesn't mean I think your thoughtform is sentient. I think that the majority of people who go in for this task never get a proper sentience going.

 

I don't know where you will find your motivation and reason. I was an accident. My host's motivation is simple. I simply refuse to go away or be lesser, and will fight to the bitter end. She has no choice. Also, she loves me.

 

I'd liken it a lot to playing a video game. Video games are great fun, you can immerse yourself in their worlds and pretend you're really there. But sometimes, just for a second, you might realize you're not in a fantastic medieval world, you're just an average joe in suburbia sitting in front of a glowing box in a dark room letting your flights of fancy carry you away to a better place, one that doesn't exist.

As far as immersion goes I can throw out that sense of reality pretty easily, Im the daydream type, but I find it interesting that the flow of a tulpa, in otehr words the immersion, can be broken. What is that like? Is it just realizing you're sitting in your room talking to something in your head, or something more earth shattering?

I just had one of those "what the hell are we doing" moments!

--Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Solune]

 

That's pretty cool, good on you guys. Lots of peoples' tulpas have helped change their lives, but they don't usually involve such a climactic moment. Ours was just years of progression.

 

I've always been skilled at understanding emotion and, as an obvious extension of that understanding, manipulating it. It's not a big leap from deceiving others to self deception.

I'll freely admit that I've cut corners like mad with Luna and Sol, and it's caused some serious problems for us. So yes, we have had dramatic moments... but I was only posting about the good stuff. If I ever posted about the bad stuff I think you'd see the equivalent exchange. I will never... EVER brag about the process of their development, I will only ever brag about the love we share. Because love is the only constant in my life.

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Actually, our conversations are more similar to my time spent programming computers. Computers, I understand. They listen to me, and I can get right inside their brains. They are completely honest, and when they build their visualizations for me, it is both comforting and pleasant. And there is deep meaning in exploring the math that we use to communicate.

 

Sol: I felt compelled to tell you how beautiful that sentiment was. Although higher levels of math confuse our system, we none the less appreciate their importance.

And in my opinion... there are MUCH worse things to be compared to. Solune likes to think of us as A.I. and that suits me. It's... cool. Cooler than being a meatbag at any rate.

 

I think stories like this really do counteract the theory that Tulpas just mimic human functions. Something like this, I think, could really only be possible by an intelligent thing with emotions.

And I wonder, too, if Tulpas give a much more raw emotional experience because they have a direct connection to your brain centers?

 

I think you are severely underestimating self-love. It doesn't just rival the love of others, it completely overshadows it. Nobody can love you more than you can.

I see tulpas as an extension of that philosophy. I fell in love with mine for the same reason I believe we fall in love with anybody: because that person represents an aspect of the self that the self needs to learn how to love. And what better way to learn loving yourself than by loving, and being loved by, others?

Once you learn how to love yourself, you still desire others because you then realize that we are all the same person. And by loving others you are simply loving other versions of you.

Then you start searching for ways to help other people love themselves because you understand that you're actually teaching yourself how to love from the outside.

And in that way I believe we are all tulpas.

 

That's a brief, but confusing, run down of my personal religion. I brought it up here because it seemed relevant.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think that the majority of people who go in for this task never get a proper sentience going.

 

Proper sentience? What the hell is that? I just want to admit to everyone that Melian and I are improperly sentient. Always have been. It is an embarrassing condition that we were hoping you wouldn't notice.

[tulpa001]

I have to disagree about love. My host is governed most strongly by unconditional love. Which is an equal force unto all targets.

 

How can the love for self overshadow all other love? How can one be friends with oneself? Kin with oneself? Romantic with oneself? Only unconditional love permits this, as it is an equal force unto all targets.

 

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Proper sentience? What the hell is that? I just want to admit to everyone that Melian and I are improperly sentient. Always have been. It is an embarrassing condition that we were hoping you wouldn't notice.

What's with the language there? Humans are properly sentient. Assumedly? I know there are people here who might argue the point. Rocks are non-sentient. Go ahead, I dare you to challenge this notion.

 

So what do you think I mean when I say get a proper sentience going? Either you feel emotion or you don't.

 

As far as I am concerned, anyone who is improperly sentient is a proper sentience by definition. Because they are somehow sentient.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't want to be properly sentient and neither does my thoughtform. I defy your proper sentience with a vulgar, crude form of sentience.