Questions about the attitude towards and life with Tulpas

[tulpa001]

Too bad. Confessing a desire causes you to properly fit the definition of sentience. The only way around this conundrum is if you are not being fully honest, and your desire is false.

[Linkzelda]

You can't be a p-zombie, Mistgod. You don't deserve that luxury of not consciously experiencing anything, or vaguely doing so.

[Stevie]

 

This analogy is pretty amazing, honestly. I never had really thought about the casual side of the friendships and all that, I had seen it as some momentous undertaking and not just a chill time with a friend past that initial step.

 

I think people spend so much time trying to deconstruct what a tulpa is and what theories to believe and shit that they look straight past the fact that it's effectively two people coexisting while anchored to the same like, physical life. And that's cool. It's not cool if there's music disputes, but those pass. 

 

@Mistgod 

 

I wanna touch down on something you said earlier. Can't be bothered to read through all the shit to quote you, though. 

 

You said something about how tulpas can't measure up to people, but I think trying to measure a tulpa by the standards of a person is like that fish climbing a tree quote. It's two different things, and to judge one by the merits of another is gonna create a flawed conclusion. 

 

Today I spent 9 hours at work. You can't talk to co-workers, you just gonna nose to the grindstone process deliveries. Except the thing is, I could chat with Chris whenever we both felt like it. That's not something that I could've done, even though I have pals, and coworkers, and family. It makes the day go by so much faster. 

 

Instead of saying "humans > tulpas"  or even "tulpas = humans" I think it's like, both do different things in your life.

[Floh]

Today I spent 9 hours at work. You can't talk to co-workers, you just gonna nose to the grindstone process deliveries. Except the thing is, I could chat with Chris whenever we both felt like it. That's not something that I could've done, even though I have pals, and coworkers, and family. It makes the day go by so much faster. 

 

Instead of saying "humans > tulpas"  or even "tulpas = humans" I think it's like, both do different things in your life.

 

This ! They provide different things, as tups are inside of you, and people are outside. They both bring things, but not the same. None of them brings more or less than the other.

For now, I consider human interactions pretty pointless (Cora: Apart from sexual interactions..) but I need (and get better with) tulpa interactions.

[Guest Anonymous]

Instead of saying "humans > tulpas"  or even "tulpas = humans" I think it's like, both do different things in your life.

 

That makes good logical sense.

 

 

You can't be a p-zombie, Mistgod. You don't deserve that luxury of not consciously experiencing anything, or vaguely doing so.

 

 

You know I think my wife may be a p-zombie in the morning before she has her coffee.  All I get from her are grunts and moans and kindof a shuffling motion into the kitchen to the coffee maker.

[Linkzelda]

When you made your Tulpa originally, did you have many friends and wanted something more, or did you use it to substitute human friends?

 

[hidden]Depends on what fits the standard of a tulpa being created…via our dreams, or through waking life endeavors that the community seems to revolve around? Because I may be one of those cases where I was doing it before I even knew it was a ‘thing’ to do in waking life, except I was just trying to do it in my dreams; but even then, it’s all done in my mind, so I figured the actual state of being didn’t matter. So with that in mind:

 

- I was actually at a point where I was moving on from friends in High School, and was going to college. Long story with that altogether, but I did have a few good friends, but never was the type of person to have a large circle of friends. It wasn’t so much of me being anti-social, but because I moved around a lot, and went to several High Schools. So that whole process of being a new kid, and finding new friends became distracting from my school work at the time, and all I cared about was getting in the highest percentage I could to get into any college where I lived, and I managed to do that easily by my junior year in high school.

 

- I saw lucid dreaming as a new hobby from a friend who introduced it to me, and this was a few months before I headed to a university. I tried to find dream guides, which kind of initiated my curiosity in figuring how to find help from within in terms of insight, and what have you. Then I remembered a distinct female that wears a red dress all the time, and would show up in several forms. Now that I think about it, it seemed Ada was the first one that could’ve been a tulpa to me. But for reasons, Eva ended up being a frequent interaction in my head that I wanted to sustain; Ada came eventually after.

 

- I never saw the interactions in substituting human friends, or even potential, intimate interactions. I always knew that previous interactions with other dream characters were merely just for satisfying the current mood, and even boredom. Wanting to extend on that always left something empty in me, and I always chalked it up as it being imaginary, and me saying I would be going way down the rabbit hole in doing so. So I just didn’t see it as a substitution for anything; the interactions, and all the potential of them as persistent dream characters at the time were just a huge expansion of how I viewed life; learning how to utilize all that untapped potential in sleeping into actually doing something more after day-to-day interactions have come to a close for each day. [/hidden]

 

 

Does the reason you originally made your Tulpa still apply and effect you to this day?

 

- I originally wanted to find dream guides to do all sorts of things in my dreams, but it was geared towards self-progression, mostly. So I don’t think it’s any different, because the context in dreams was intended for me to apply whatever was learned in waking life. But my reason, the core reason, was probably just a desire that was temporary at the time, and extended into another reason that hopefully wanted to see things in a bigger picture.

 

Are the experiences you have with your Tulpa as special and memorable as those spent with human friends (To clarify a little more, do you have those memories that make you feel that deep pit in your chest, really moving moments? I feel like something like that would be really hard with a Tulpa, considering its all in the mind, making it really hard for a moment to just take you away)

 

[hidden]When I intended to interact with them before getting into the tulpa concept, I always had some difficulty sometimes calling them. Some people jokingly described this as them wanting to come on their own time, or at their own convenience. I had some mixed episodes reacting to that, but I never had butterflies in my stomach type of sensation. It was more of being with people that you question why you get this feeling that you’re already used to each other, and know each other deep enough to be casual around. I wanted to feel at the time that it was just my mind using whatever experiential context of what it means to know someone for quite some time, and giving the impression that’s projected onto them. But the days where I felt my mind were a trickster were long gone, so I kind of just went through the motions.

 

And speaking of which, with this whole friend thing, substitution, and what have you:

 

- I’m sure there’s an easy correlation that people making tulpas would mean they intend to replace social interactions with others. That they can get by without that gregarious nature with people to have progression with their tulpas. But I always had the realization that it was quite the opposite of this for me: In order for me to treat them as sentient, I have to take a look within myself, and use whatever memories, experiential learning, and implicit knowledge my mind could create to apply it to the endeavor. This included previous interactions with other people, and how I assessed myself through those interpersonal engagements.

 

- The endeavor added onto my shift from existentialism (that I didn’t know was the case at the time) because I realized I had to learn how to appreciate the novelty of trying to be an ordinary person again. Which meant to me, that they would have to be treated as sentient in a way that social interaction is just as crucial as trying to perpetuate their existence in my mind, and trying to fixate myself on self-progression. I ended up seeing self-progression + social interaction as what you’re capable of expressing yourself to others is something you can do for yourself.

 

- Sure, there were stages where I just wanted to be alone, but it was due to that realization in the last sentence in the previous paragraph. It was more of a fallback I knew would always be there as long as I can reconcile with it. And through my endeavors of treating them as sentient, and what have you, I would progressively be balancing self-progression with them, and with others in life. I’m just more careful of who I choose to interact with because I used to go to the ends of the earth for some people, and forget to do things for my own sake for once. And maybe because things seem so linear sometimes is what makes me hold it off to really keep doing things for our own sake instead. I’m sure there’s going to be the time where I can be content with what’s going on, and go back to rekindling with others, but I feel the identity they had, and even the new ones they cultivate now just isn’t worth it to be anymore. I just accepted the impermanence of things; friendships, and such, and to not let those endeavors take a massive toll on me.

 

- That same fallback I mentioned before, I realized I was learning more through my tulpas, and dream characters overall. But I felt my dreams had a more significant impact than my tulpas. I just saw dreams as a bigger canvas to let the ink bleed in than tulpas because I didn’t want my tulpas to be chalked up as someone who has to be a higher standard that I want to reach for. I just want them to be part of the journey of knowing what it means to be an ordinary person again, because dreaming definitely initiated mixed reactions about life.[/hidden]

 

 

Is this something that you can look back in fondness of and look forward in anticipation, or is it more of just a project? What im basically asking here are Tulpas the right thing for a person looking for something deeply and humanly moving, and not just a new friend that looks like anything I want them to look like.

 

I think we may find this answer on deathbed, so I won’t bother going further on this.

 

Does it feel like you're just talking to a humanized extension of yourself or is it something more real?

 

[hidden]When I see the word ‘real’ in context of tulpas, I think more about the whole ‘sentience’ dilemma people have vs. real in the physical and metaphysical sense. I always questioned that if they weren’t real to be in having a capacity in sentience, could it be due to how I, just like any other person, has gotten so used to the idea that the ‘self’ that was given continuity of form and identity over time is just me, and me alone? I questioned if there was really unchallenged authority of ‘me,’ and all that goes on in my mind exclusively belongs to me. But I knew it created this airless problem that people allow themselves to suffocate over. I thought of it as sharing the inner confines of one’s mind, and there being all-inclusive sharing and flourishing vs. there being distinct, exclusive things solely for one person, or the other.

 

So when questioned if I’m just talking to a humanized extension of myself is to question if I’m even humanized myself. I would say yes, I’m a human, and I’m sentient, and even though I can’t validate to others of sentience I believe they have the capacity of embodying, I have the assurance that whatever mental faculties and reservoir within me that instantiates my sentience is something that’s reachable in instantiating theirs as well. I never tried to go deeper than that, and if I did, it was more of expanding on the base level I was swimming around trying to progressively improve over time. Some people react negatively to where they are foaming in their mouths when tulpas get chalked up as this aspect of yourself, and such, but it rarely bothered me, especially since I’m one for all-inclusive state of affairs with them in the first place.

 

Because if they are still p-zombies, I always have that burning question as to why my mind exclusively instantiates impressions of them being such while I, as I am now and have been for all of my life, can be so confident that I’m sentient, and I’m not just some thought experiment for my mind to use as a stand-in for applying context to this reality. I always saw this dichotomy as absurd because it’s like an existential vacuum that can suck a person right up because undermining the potential capacity of a tulpa would be undermining the capacities that instantiates sentience for me; a self-referential existential mirroring, if you will.[/hidden]