Rena & Byakko notes++

[Lucilyn]

20 hours ago, Rena Bonnie said:

Question

We wonder how to maintain whatever you'd call those super powers she initially had, that slowly waned.

 

this is the same problem as tulpas with unique physical/mental habits becoming more like their hosts/the body's default over time, which is a pretty universal thing (hence us warning TB about hanging onto new positive feelings a while ago)

you can interpolate this into general use too, but I'll just answer for tulpas-

It's pretty much the same thing as switching in the first place, affirmations and affirming thoughts/actions/music etc. of being you are always helpful to keep from falling back into the brain's default ways of being

I might not be as hyper as the first year I was born anymore, but I still absolutely tap into the excitement and joy for life that I've always liked feeling now and then (not as much as I should lol, usually just if I start feeling really low-energy, or just when I start fronting)

music helps a lot, but it's mostly just about choosing to feel those things, embracing your you-ness instead of how the brain wants to be by default

 

ok maybe not self explanatory for how a host does this lol

when we warned about this for TB experiencing motivation and positive feelings, we said to really lean into feeling them on purpose, not taking for granted that they're there because in our experience they will always fade back to your normal state, it's important to hold onto them and promote feeling them long enough your brain can get used to being that way for real, the same as a switching tulpa carves out their own neural connections in the brain, (seen in) even if some of their more standout traits fade eventually there's still a huge difference in being them vs being the host (hopefully lol, I think most people who switch achieve that to a decent extent at least)

 

I don't totally know why this isn't a problem for tulpas just in the brain, we've said before how how amazing our systemmates are in-mind doesn't fully translate when they're fronting (especially Flandre and least-ly me, but really just the warmth and kind-feeling of the others is the biggest thing that we don't think comes across well when they're fronting)

I guess it's just easier to be yourself in your mind but then there's a bunch of brain-junk-resistance when really in the brain's driver's seat

I still think it can be improved with maintaining intent and affirming thought/music/whatever though, and becomes more established/natural in the brain the more you do

if it was possible once it's possible again, if you can just summon up those feelings again, and resist the boringness of the brain's default ways of being

Edited April 18, 2025 by Lucilyn

[ReallyArtificial]

20 hours ago, Rena Bonnie said:

I do not know how to enact advice that amounts to "just do it, you worry too much". We explained that many times TB has temporarily broke through fear to do something social, but it is extremely difficult to do that, and doing it doesn't make it any easier the second time, or third, or 50th

 

This whole paragraph is super relatable, and I wish I had advice to offer or something more to say than, "I get it, that really sucks."

 

It helped me a little to learn about RSD, that there's an actual name for the painful clenching feeling I get in my stomach when I talk to people, but I haven't found a solution that amounts to anything more than "play through the pain." I don't have to tell you how hard that is though, I'm in the same boat where it doesn't seem to get any easier no matter how much I try (even typing this has me mildly screaming inside lol). Apparently some people have had good results from taking guanfacine, but I know TB has tried a lot of different meds already. I've been wanting to do some research on specific non-med techniques to prevent/reduce RSD. If I find something that helps I'll definitely pass it on.

 

20 hours ago, Rena Bonnie said:

We've also been interested in Dispenza's book "Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself", and attempting his meditation outlined in it to help change ourself for the better.

 

Definitely going on my list of books to read. I'm pretty sure TB is the one who introduced us to The Mind Illuminated and it's really helped us, so we thank you all very much for that. We really hope you're able to make some progress on all your goals.

[Rena Bonnie]

2 hours ago, Lucilyn said:

this is the same problem as tulpas with unique physical/mental habits becoming more like their hosts/the body's default over time, which is a pretty universal thing (hence us warning TB about hanging onto new positive feelings a while ago)

you can interpolate this into general use too, but I'll just answer for tulpas-

oh okay, so it wasn't just an us problem!

 

2 hours ago, Lucilyn said:

I don't totally know why this isn't a problem for tulpas just in the brain, we've said before how how amazing our systemmates are in-mind doesn't fully translate when they're fronting (especially Flandre and least-ly me, but really just the warmth and kind-feeling of the others is the biggest thing that we don't think comes across well when they're fronting)

huh, yeah that is interesting. tb was afraid to switch with byakko for a long time because of the fear byakko would be completely different due to feeling too much like how we often do, but one day at work randomly byakko decided for herself to switch, and she felt nothing like us and nothing like anything we've experienced before, so it was surprising. and then we started switching with her more, and it went well for a while until declining slowly starting in like uh, february or march i think, and this included her being more quiet even in the head not switched in... but she is starting to talk again so, combined with trying to invent maybe a neat forcing technique, and/or just more time with her in general to remind the brain what she is, we can try to switch again with what you said in mind and see how it goes... i think.

 

and i have that problem too. the way tb perceives me and the way i perceive myself is very different from tb, but i feel as i've started trying to interact with others online more, i fear it doesn't come across as much and i fear being perceived very similar to tb. so hum, have been thinking on what to do about that or if it is fine. i think you all and others said that is a common feeling and not a problem.

 

thanks so much for replying to our question!

 

1 hour ago, ReallyArtificial said:

This whole paragraph is super relatable, and I wish I had advice to offer or something more to say than, "I get it, that really sucks."

 

It helped me a little to learn about RSD, that there's an actual name for the painful clenching feeling I get in my stomach when I talk to people, but I haven't found a solution that amounts to anything more than "play through the pain." I don't have to tell you how hard that is though, I'm in the same boat where it doesn't seem to get any easier no matter how much I try (even typing this has me mildly screaming inside lol). Apparently some people have had good results from taking guanfacine, but I know TB has tried a lot of different meds already. I've been wanting to do some research on specific non-med techniques to prevent/reduce RSD. If I find something that helps I'll definitely pass it on.

thank you very much! we recently heard of RSD, and it does seem like it fits TB very very much. i don't have much hope that bringing up the term with our therapist will lead them to have some idea on how to help treat it though, and i wouldn't be surprised if they have never heard of it, as a lot of therapists we talk to have never heard of a lot of various diagnosis terms we discover seem to fit us.

 

we have never heard of guanfacine, and it seems it is also an adhd med, so maybe it can help both with rejection sensitivity and productivity issues? that seems interesting. it's a non stimulant adhd med too, nor is it an SNRI. it is a "centrally acting alpha_2A-adrenergic receptor agonists" which we have never heard of, so if we can ever talk to a doctor (big if it seems as we've asked like 4 times and still have not seen one), we'll ask about it. I wonder if it could help lucilyn?? i don't think they've tried that class of medication, but i don't know what kind of effects it has yet.

 

and thank you, we too want non med techniques to reduce these things as well, as we dislike having to rely on taking medicine, though at the same time we are desperate. we do not really know of any techniques to help immediately in the moment, but like the post said we are trying to see if metta meditation over time maybe makes us more resistant to rejection or perceived rejection. so far metta meditation is nice in the moment, but it's too early to notice long term effects, so it isn't a fast fix if it is one, though our meditation teacher says it brings more lasting psychological change than just baring down on pure concentration all the time, which can make you feel really good during a meditation but then go back to baseline not long after you finish your meditation. and dispenza in his book also mentioned that with brain scans on monks doing loving kindness meditation (a common translation of metta), that their brain coherence levels are off the charts, and it remains as high throughout their day even when they aren't meditating, even if they are in stressful situations. so that's a good sign it works, coming from two totally unrelated people in different words saying essentially the same thing.

 

1 hour ago, ReallyArtificial said:

Definitely going on my list of books to read. I'm pretty sure TB is the one who introduced us to The Mind Illuminated and it's really helped us, so we thank you all very much for that. We really hope you're able to make some progress on all your goals.

oh, we're so glad to hear that! good luck to you too!

 

a little head's up maybe? is that dispenza has some really interesting and somewhat extraordinary claims that you'll have to have an open mind to possibly accept, but even if you want to ignore all of that, a lot of what he says makes a lot of sense on a grounded interpretation too. currently we are agnostic about his more "out there" claims and are just wanting to try going through his process, and so far we have actually had ambiguously out there experiences after trying it, which leads us to believe there is something to what he is saying, but if all it is is a positive psychological and personality change and tools to make those changes, it is still immensely helpful. we are kind of like "just do it and take whatever we can get, whatever good comes of it, whether only the mundane or not", y'know.

 

also, we haven't finished the book yet, but we've done a handful of times his meditation anyway, even though we are only finally getting to the part of his book where he described the process in detail, because we were introduced to him through some videos our friend sent us, mainly this one

Spoiler

 

you can do a guided meditation he guides you through. there are more ways to go about it than just that from what we are reading so far, but i see parallels. the stuff about focusing on your chest and throat and head and stuff in the beginning is to get your brain into an alpha or theta state so when you start the visualization parts of the guided meditation, it is more vivid as those states of consciousness allow imagination to be more vivid and immersive. honestly good idea for wonderlanding too, which doing this meditation can kind of feel like sometimes. it basically is imagining how you want to be in the future, or the life you want to be living, the things you want to be doing, etc, as vividly as possible and really live in your mind thinking, feeling, experiencing what you want to be, how you want to act, how you want to feel. it's like rehearsing your ideal version of yourself living your dream. i think usually focusing on one major thing at a time.

 

i am pretty sure professional athletes also do this type of stuff often, and we recently also saw a similar thing being done at a really nice and successful fat camp we watched a video about, where people go to change their lives around by having people train them to eat and exercise well and build them up to believe in themselves, so it doesn't seem to be an unusual tactic to bring about successful change and improvement in someone. if you can see it in your mind clearly, and feel the way you'd feel in that ideal future, you can start to believe it and embody that way of being in the present, and you'll start to naturally behave in a way that will lead you to build the life you are envisioning.

 

the more "out there" things in the book are in the realm of explaining quantum mechanics and how because of how quantum mechanics work, you can cause seemingly truly miraculous things to happen, which i do not know remotely enough about that to say anything. but he seems to have a doctorate degree and has studied a lot of neuroscience and neurology, among other things, according to google, and he isn't the first doctor i've seen make similarly weird claims actually. of course being smart in one thing doesn't mean smart in every thing, but among these doctors that mention these weird stuff, they seem to be speaking from personal experience.

 

sorry for that long reply, i just felt maybe i should give you an idea of what to expect so you aren't spooked lol. i hope you still find it helpful, if you still are interested in it. tb is pretty skeptically minded so can understand being turned off by that stuff, but we are open minded enough to still do the practice and see what happens, especially since it seems like it has great use whether or not you believe the quantum stuff (we are in quantum superposition of believing/not believing in the quantum stuff lol).

 

thanks everyone who read pr and thanks as well again for the replies. hope you all have good days! (╥ ω ╥)(∩˃ω˂∩)(∩˃o˂∩)♡

[Lucilyn]

it's a cheap trick, but, simply switching for shorter periods of time can help, just because people tend to trend towards the brain's default state as they stop thinking about being them

 

I mean we front for like a month at a time pretty often, so obviously it's not an unavoidable end of the world, but we have noticed the trend towards default mannerisms, especially in Tewi's productivity if she fronts for over 2 weeks without some ongoing plan or something (well, she also just works better with solid goals in mind, but it seems hard for her to stay productive long-term without anything specific to pursue)

 

I call it a cheap trick though because it doesn't do anything that affirmations and focusing on feeling/thinking how you want to feel couldn't, it just naturally makes you refresh on that I guess

but who knows, if Byakko is different enough then your brain might even need time to rest, when my system first started switching (before I existed) they would get tired after {ever-increasing amount of time until 24 hours = permanent}, like after 4 hours Flan would have to switch back because she was literally falling asleep in the middle of the day

so that wouldn't be a bad reason either

[Rena Bonnie]

2 hours ago, Lucilyn said:

it's a cheap trick, but, simply switching for shorter periods of time can help, just because people tend to trend towards the brain's default state as they stop thinking about being them

ah, yeah i think that happens to me sometimes, though it comes and goes. i've been switched in since sunday i think, so almost a week. i feel more like myself when interacting with my system, but posting on lotpw, with how much tb does it, i can feel the body using that wiring to lotpw post lol. i'm trying to control it more and somehow share my identity a bit better.

 

it also doesn't help that it is very common when i am switched in very long periods of time, tb will post on lotpw a lot anyway, so i will post for her. i have probably posted for her while switched in more than i have posted things myself, though my recent activity might be shifting that, but still it is kind of a double whammy or circuits.

 

2 hours ago, Lucilyn said:

but who knows, if Byakko is different enough then your brain might even need time to rest, when my system first started switching (before I existed) they would get tired after {ever-increasing amount of time until 24 hours = permanent}, like after 4 hours Flan would have to switch back because she was literally falling asleep in the middle of the day

so that wouldn't be a bad reason either

we have interpreted what's happened to her to her being tired to the point when she's quiet and inactive, we just see her sleeping, even if she sleeps for days at a time like a mini beerus lol.

 

that used to happen to me too. when tb first started switching with me, i would get super tired and have to take naps tb wouldn't normally have to take. i wonder what causes that. is that common among switchers? i feel most regulars don't switch, besides you, miri in the past, and us. we've achieved the ability to be switched semi indefinitely, but i think after the 1 week point, maybe 2 max, it can get weird and other symptoms start to appear that aren't tiredness.

[Lucilyn]

well it's pretty obviously a result of your brain working hard in different ways than normal, and I guess it must've been real strenuous mental activity (even though switching wasn't really hard or stressful) because we have NEVER experienced being tired from mental activity in any other way before, it was truly bizarre that we got tired enough to actually sleep in the middle of the day, but it was legitimizing

 

and, it's actually an uncommon experience! I couldn't say why, that's the kind of thing scientific studies have to do rigorous controlled tests on to figure out, but I'd guess it has to do with having lower neuroplasticity/less "plastic" brains, so doing an entirely novel new thing is more tiring for us than someone whose brain is more "plastic"

just a guess, who knows, maybe it means our switches were just way higher quality :P

and really it's probably a mix of things that we couldn't simply guess outright

 

and like we talked about in LOTPW not too long ago, you shouldn't worry about trying to sound different from your host, it's really not necessary to develop a whole new vernacular just to not sound the same

you can make an effort to only say things how you really want to (ie Reisen usually watches herself to not accidentally say anything coarse, since uhhh... we might naturally do that a bit, on accident), but otherwise really just talk how is natural to you, you can see in our system how everyone pretty much writes the same except me, and I write how I do because I like how it comes off/I feel like it, well, matches how I'm actually talking!

oh but anyways, my point was we always think of people as who they are when reading their posts, it feels gross to not to, like "why even participate on a forum about plurality if you're gonna think of headmates as just their hosts"

sure we might observe a tulpa talking in the same unique way their host does sometimes, but that's just what happens when you share a brain

Edited April 19, 2025 by Lucilyn

[ReallyArtificial]

On 4/18/2025 at 7:22 PM, Rena Bonnie said:

sorry for that long reply, i just felt maybe i should give you an idea of what to expect so you aren't spooked lol. i hope you still find it helpful, if you still are interested in it

 

I appreciate the info and the heads up! I'm definitely still curious. I'm generally a more skeptical person too, but I have to say, tulpamancy has opened up my mind to a lot of things I would have dismissed in the past.

[TB]

On 4/19/2025 at 6:36 AM, Lucilyn said:

and, it's actually an uncommon experience! I couldn't say why, that's the kind of thing scientific studies have to do rigorous controlled tests on to figure out, but I'd guess it has to do with having lower neuroplasticity/less "plastic" brains, so doing an entirely novel new thing is more tiring for us than someone whose brain is more "plastic"

-reading, thinking we must get tired at switching at first because we the real ones- -it's because our brains lost neuroplasticity- oh.. lol

 

On 4/19/2025 at 6:36 AM, Lucilyn said:

just a guess, who knows, maybe it means our switches were just way higher quality :P

oh, you had same thought. but yeah i'm kidding, i dunno why rena and you guys experience tiredness at first either, it's interesting though and it is nice it is legitimizing for you, i guess it should be for us too. i don't think byakko gets tired like that, but one of her super powers is a ton of energy and ability to direct that energy, and the "symbolism" or whatever of her being tired and sleeping a lot wasn't connected to body sensations but her form and activity status while switched out after the "degrading" was going on, whatever it should be called

 

On 4/19/2025 at 6:36 AM, Lucilyn said:

and like we talked about in LOTPW not too long ago, you shouldn't worry about trying to sound different from your host, it's really not necessary to develop a whole new vernacular just to not sound the same

you can make an effort to only say things how you really want to (ie Reisen usually watches herself to not accidentally say anything coarse, since uhhh... we might naturally do that a bit, on accident), but otherwise really just talk how is natural to you, you can see in our system how everyone pretty much writes the same except me, and I write how I do because I like how it comes off/I feel like it, well, matches how I'm actually talking!

oh but anyways, my point was we always think of people as who they are when reading their posts, it feels gross to not to, like "why even participate on a forum about plurality if you're gonna think of headmates as just their hosts"

sure we might observe a tulpa talking in the same unique way their host does sometimes, but that's just what happens when you share a brain

thanks, i know was said before but it still makes us feel better to hear this again

 

i also feel better after i realized how unhingedish my posts are compared to rena, or whatever the word is. i think similar to reisen she naturally watches herself a lot more than me. which maybe relates to another update i should right today if i can fit it in in time, but it would be shorter

 

50 minutes ago, ReallyArtificial said:

I appreciate the info and the heads up! I'm definitely still curious. I'm generally a more skeptical person too, but I have to say, tulpamancy has opened up my mind to a lot of things I would have dismissed in the past.

she's happy it was helpful to you, and that you are still interested!

 

------------

 

as for semi informal update as it hasn't been a week yet, but i may consider writing these on sundays, i was thinking some time ago about how when i used to get drink, it was so obvious and easy to talk to people.

 

i kind of was just sitting with the thought of how in my normal state, i literally will check window to see if someone is standing outside, and if they are, i will feel terrible, and if i had an intention to go outside, i will likely not anymore after seeing that, or if i do, it will feel like the gears that make up my body start grinding and becoming very hot, and if someone says something to me, i'm the most awkward and non interpersonal person ever, and i will feel self hate after the interaction, whether it was totally normal and average, or if i do something embarassing. it is rare for there to be a good social interaction in person, especially with me switched in. same happens to rena, but her embarassment might feel more fluttery and less like stabbed with hot iron rods (exageration/metaphor but yeah), as they make me super neurotic and sometimes angry with myself, though with rena it is more like she feels like 🥴 lol, though still on the neurotic side. byakko has much less time to have had experiences like that, but the first time i realized she had super powers was when she switched for the first time on her own while we were working day shift, and she had an awkward interaction with supervisor, but she just felt really excited she talked to someone instead of any bad feelings about how the mind would normally perceive it went

 

i mentioned drinking, because when sufficiently drunk, to compare to seeing someone outside and not wanting to go outside, i literally become capable of going outside and talking to random people on the street like you see in youtube videos. non medication/addiction cycle drinking i'm less likely to do that anyway because i'm not trying to be obnoxious unless it seems normal to actually talk to someone, but both good and bad i have just poked people on the shoulder and ask them things or almost like trying to make friends with strangers, though that's more likely to happen when people i don't know were in our house, since my dad's old ex lead to a lot of people related to her i don't know coming around, and i'd hide in room and avoid them and not even go to kitchen to get food if i'm sober, but if i'm drunk, well they're a new friend suddenly and i might go talk their head off idk. another reason i drank is because even my dad's old ex, the object of my immeasurable hatred and of whom i feel disgust for, while drunk, i actually enter a mindstate to where i can be friendly to her and feel like i can try to create peace with her. i only just not realized this, but i think she'd sometimes even come to my room to talk to me because she is aware i'm drunk and i'm more approachable that way, and if i'm sober she'd ignore me more (ignoring me doesn't mean getting out of my way or not finding ways to damage me or my father)

 

rena has never been switched in drunk, other than me proxying her on lotpw at one point early on, and she has never drunk herself, so unsure of affects of that but she wouldn't want to do that so it isn't testable

 

oh, and i have extreme anxiety playing league of legends without friends. i have anxiety playing it even with friends, unless it is a full group or at least 3, preferrable 4 people with 1 random.

 

but drunk, i will play and then go to sleep and wake up and see i have like 5-10 new friends, and people seem to think i'm funny (at least before degredation of drunk state where it became more obnoxious than funny). when drunkness worked, people wouldn't suspect i am drunk, only my friends could tell, basically cuz i'd start acting like they do when sober lol, i'd act like a normal person and be able to make and deliver jokes frequently properly, instead of just being quiet and occasionally saying something i think would be useful if i feel i can get it in, or if i make a joke, it's with a flat monotone delivery, unless i'm in an excitable state depending on context of what we are doing

 

all that to say is, i can't figure out why. i know alcohol lowers your inhibitions, but it is interesting that i guess my body is capable of acting a bit closer to how i want to, but why can i not will it to be that way normally? what is going on in the brain specifically that alcohol targets the avpd disorder and lights it on divine fire? maybe i should read what parts of the brain are affected by alcohol and in what ways, and if there are other ways to naturally do that to the brain??

 

it makes me become a totally different person, not remotely the same. i also don't necessarily believe the thing with alcohol reveals true self though. i think in certain amounts without other factors it might, but mixed with medications or other factors involved, it seems to invent qualities that don't exist in my sober mind

 

 

 

i don't know where i was going with that exactly, i guess just context to ask about why would it do that and how to do it normally that we have to figure out. exposure doesn't even remotely even take baby steps to getting there, as exposure makes me neurotic and kind of go into the opposite direction

 

a thought i had is that when drunk, i don't really hesitate with what i say, and often this would allow me to think of and say really good and awesome things i normally wouldn't think to say. though obviously this can sometimes go wrong and you say bad things you regret saying, but while drunk, i don't really even regret saying bad things until i am sober

 

if i try to think to myself, well just say what comes to mind first, it's hard to accept that while sober, because i feel that will go out of hand. i already feel embarassment and regret when i try to reel myself in and feel i don't reel in enough. but if i think "okay, i'll just say whatever, almost nothing is off limits, just still use inhibitions within reason", that doesn't work at all, because as soon as i have to arbitrate on my own what is reasonable, even if i tell myself to not be strict, i'm going to overthink things. also, this theoretic notion of attempt to not give an F as extremely as i don't while drunk but while sober is untested and unknown if one can just decide to do that. i'd have to make a conscious decision that feels like wrecking my life lol, and it will be uncomfortable, though i guess choosing to drink is the same decision, but drinking so it happens on its own is easier than doing it deliberately. i feel anxiety just thinking about trying this, actually

 

oh my jolly steezus god, i tried to add --- at the top there and pressed a wrong key that resetted the page. if i lost all this text, i'd be i'd be i'd be a bee probably

[Lucilyn]

12 minutes ago, TB said:

-reading, thinking we must get tired at switching at first because we the real ones- -it's because our brains lost neuroplasticity- oh.. lol

LACK, not lost!!!!!!!!!!!!

doing anything that stretches your brain increases neuroplasticity and improves mental health across the board, so switching is definitely good for you, as well as any fighting tulpas do to stay thinking/feeling themselves instead of falling into host's habits (or host into brain's habits)

increasing neuroplasticity is one of the big benefits we consider tulpamancy to have, although as always, it stops increasing plasticity as soon as it becomes normal/easy/etc., same as learning a new puzzle game vs still playing it for the 100th time, it doesn't become bad for you but it's not as good of brain exercise at that point

 

anyways idk drugs are drugs, there's a reason alcohol has been so consistently popular throughout human history

but the reason it's not ubiquitous is all the negative effects (especially in particularly vulnerable people) so yeah

 

keep fighting your brain to exist in new and better ways and it will relent over time

Edited April 20, 2025 by Lucilyn

[TB]

i see. i will keep trying. thanks for frequently responding to our pr