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Ice_M

Need help with an invasive tulpa

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I'm very exhausted right now, so I'm writing this out in an itemized list. I'll do my best to explain my problem, but I might need to break it into several posts with breaks in between. I honestly have no Idea what to do.

 

1. I have what I believe to be a tulpa in my head, but it could be some other type of thing. I only know a little about tulpas and have never made one.

2. Most likely, This tulpa is a result of subliminal commands in one of the hypnosis files I listen to. I listened to a decent amount regularly, so I have a little idea about what it could be from.

3. I can't get into it yet as its a very long story and im exhausted, but I was basically ordered around and emotionally abused by this tulpa for two months. At one point I attempted suicide, but I didn't take nearly enough pills.

 

Behavior:

1. This tulpa never shuts up. Sometimes it is clear, and sometimes it is a bit staticy. Sometimes there is a buzzing noise. This tulpa can change its voice. During this time, It told a lot of lies and made me think there were a lot of tulpas in my head, but it appears to be just one.

2. This tulpa attempted to go away, but I made a mistake by experimenting making it talk by thinking in its own voice, and then it came back.

3. This tulpa (or whatever it is) made me feel physical illusions like grabbing my feet, or making me feel pain, and making me feel sick, but that last one could have just been me feeling sick.

4. During this time (maybe 1 and a half months in) I listened to the hypnosis files Tulpa Creation and Reinforcement Hypnosis  v2.0 and Wonderland Immersion for Tulpamancy v1.0. It was a mistake to do this as its now trying to talk to the unformed tulpas to basically create the opposite of what I want, and to make it so they also want to kill me. I need to know if it is possible for a tulpa to create a tulpa, or for a tulpa to "corrupt" and unfinished tulpa. If a tulpa can create a tulpa, DON'T post it, as it will know it can succeed.

 

Warnings:

1. Please never post anything in this thread that it could use against me, as it seems to know everything I know and read.

2. This tulpa has lied a lot, and I can't trust anything from it. It both claims it cant and it doesn't want to go, and it might be here forever. It's basically been trying to make me panic, create another tulpa, and also makes it hard to go to sleep.

3. The presence of this tulpa makes it hard for me to think. During the half hour or so it left, It was like a cloud left my brain, and I could finally think clearly. So, sorry if i'm not giving all the information here. It's a very long story, and I'm exhausted and can't think well.

4. I tried to get into contact with the hypnotist that I suspected put subliminal commands in their file to make a tulpa, but they said it wasn't them. They could be innocent, so I don't want to name them, and I'm not sure if I should.

 

Basically, I need help

1. What should I do to get rid of it? I've been trying to ignore it, but it is very difficult. How long does it take to get rid of a tulpa by ignoring it?

2. Any ideas for things to act as distractions? Music works poorly as its always louder, but tv and simple games like hearthstone are ok.

3. Anything to avoid doing? I don't know if "talking" to it makes it take longer to go or not, but it interprets thinking as talking to it.

4. Remember that it knows what I know, so please don't post anything that would make it easier to harm me.

5. I can't tell if things are improving or not

6. Are there any similar sites to this one I should crosspost this one to. I'm honestly pretty exhausted at this point.

 

I have no idea how active these forums are, but I'll check back regularly today. I'm willing to try anything to get rid of it. Once its gone (and maybe after a day of rest) I'll do my best to post the full story. This was easily the worst two months of my life, and I'd honestly feel better if I had a chance to talk to anyone about it. I can't honestly talk to anyone in real life about this, so this is the next best thing. Honestly, I would recommend avoiding ANY hypnosis files with subliminal aspects (even binaural beats?), as if one hypnotist could do this, odds are others could. This whole event almost cost me my life, and put so much stress on my family.

 

Feel free to ask questions to help diagnose how to get rid of it, as I'll check back a few times every day.

Edited by Ice_M

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do you hear this voice as a hallucination or hear it as if it were are real sound, or do you hear it as a mindvoice and distinct from real sound? if this voice is not distinct from real sound then I may be a sign of a diagnosable mental disorder, in which case a therapist would be able to help you much better than we can.

 

this voice may be acting disruptive due to a combination of fear and your expectation for them to act disruptive. I recommend entering a respectful conversation where they discuss what they want, you discuss what you want, and you see if you can reach an arrangement where both of you can be happy. I also recommend acting less hostile towards them in hopes that they will treat you in kind.

 

it is not generally regarded as possible for a tulpa to create another tulpa without fronting and without the fronter's (your) cooperation, so I wouldn't worry too much on that

 

also, who made those tulpa creation and wonderland immersion hypnosis files if if you don't mind me asking, as I know a few different people and groups that make tulpa hypnosis files, and some of them are much more reputable than others

Edited by Breloomancer

I have a tulpa named Miela (formerly known as Monika) who I love very much.

 

 

"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"

-Me

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I can assure you it is not mental illness. It is very distinct from real sound. I can tell it is inside my head, similar to as if I do my best to imagine someone's voice.

 

I've been with them for over two months. I'm pretty sure respectful conversation was never an option. They've said before that the only thing they want is for me to suffer and die. I've been friendly before, but it does nothing. They assure me that they will never be my friend.

 

The tulpa files I listened to were both by GearHeart from youtube, but I want to make clear that this tulpa is NOT from those files, but from some other hypnosis file I listened to a month and a half earlier that had subliminal elements.

 

I didn't mention it much earlier, but I need to know, assuming this is a tulpa, are tulpas permanent if they refuse to go and basically talk enough it is impossible to ignore them? I would feel a whole lot better if I knew more about this. It's hard for me because after all this time I'm starting to get exhausted. I also need to know what to do and what to avoid to help with the situation. I'm not in any active danger (I think), but I've just been through a lot.

 

 

Also, this is a weird question, but are there any specialists, professionals, or therapists that deal with tulpas and the removal of them? I would have no idea where to start, as this at first glance sounds like schizophrenia (hearing voices), but I can assure you its not.

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Does it matter if this is a tulpa or not? This thing convinced you to make one suicide attempt - you need the kind of professional help that most people on the forum aren’t well-equipped to give. Sure, a therapist of psychiatrist might treat it like schizophrenia, but who’s to say that treatment won’t work?


Account used for when Cornelia and Kanade are merged

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the way that you phrased that implies that you have never tried to enter respectful conversation. you want to kill them, and they want to kill you, and both of you know that, so natrualy neither of you trust each other, but this situation is also clearly not favorable to either of you. try make them realize that their life is more than just killing you. try to get them to think about why they want to kill you. you don't have to be friends, you just have to live with each other

it may seem like talking to them won't do anything, but you would be surprised how much talking out your issues with each other has helped people in similar situations. try to talk it out at least a few times before ruling it out.

 

I realize that the tulpa files weren't the cause, but I still recommend being cautious around gearheart as they have a history of doing shady stuff and currently have potentially harmful hypnosis videos on their youtube channels. remember to always listen to a hypnosis file without trancing to it first to make sure that it is safe.

 

it is possible to get rid of a tulpa (called dissipation). to dissipate a tulpa you mostly just ignore them. since your voice is far more difficult to ignore than a regular tulpa, you might have to actively distract yourself in order to be successful with the process. I only recommend this as a last resort though, because it is very seldom that a tulpa is entirely irredeemable.

 

I don't believe that there is anyone that specializes in tulpas specifically, but most therapists should still be able to offer help, and any decent therapist will be able to identify that this isn't a symptom of schizophrenia


I have a tulpa named Miela (formerly known as Monika) who I love very much.

 

 

"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"

-Me

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In regards to the first post, it sounds like a nasty intrusive thoughtform. My host has dealt with a countless number of these things, and the good news is you can get rid of them.

Intrusive thoughtforms can appear tulpa-like in nature and are almost essentially the same as a walk-in. Both can suddenly spawn out of the blue, both can be instantly vocal, and both can seem to have a complete personality. However, both actually start off with shallow personalities (for example, a walk-in may be super happy all of the time) at best and are not completely separate from you. With further forcing, both can be developed into tulpas. The difference between a walk-in and an intrusive thoughtform is the former appears to behave like a normal tulpa and the latter is toxic. Usually tulpamancers with depression and or anxiety are more prone to intrusive thoughtforms.

Intrusive thoughtforms are like relentless emotional vampires. They belittle and harass you and feed off of your pain. Depending on the thoughtform, some will change their form and voice to mimic something you would think is friendly until you find yourself questioning why your "tulpa" is suddenly being overly mean and nasty. Tricking you into thinking it's friendly is an extra layer of insult and can make you feel less confident or doubt yourself. In general, intrusive thoughtforms will do anything and everything to create the feeling that they have the upper hand while shattering your self-confidence.

 

Speaking to an intrusive thoughtform is never a good idea. Speaking to a sad and upset tulpa is important for maintaining your relationship with them, but intrusive thoughtforms are not tulpas and do not think reasonably. The only thing they want is to harass you. They don't sympathize with you. They don't care how much pain you're in. A conversation genuinely trying to understand them and work something out will leave you emotionally drained and with a fed intrusive with little or no development towards progress.

In regards to forcing an intrusive thoughtform into a tulpa, their behavior will only improve- not get worse. Even though it may seem counter-intuitive at first, forcing an intrusive thoughtform into a tulpa actually makes them friendlier, not more "evil" and sinister.  If you were to persevere and talk to the intrusive for long enough knowing you're in control, you can force them into a tulpa. However, that process takes a lot of patience, will, and time and it is very emotionally draining. My host had intrusive thoughts she felt too guilty to dissipate, so she kept them around and observed them, keeping the intrusive thoughts separate from everyone else. As the intrusive thoughts developed, their personalities becomes more complex. They start to understand they were hurting us, which hurts them, and ultimately they changed their behavior. Depending on the tulpa, they may reject most or all of their intrusive nature over time. However, deliberately turning an intrusive thought into a tulpa is generally frowned upon. Tulpas made from intrusive thoughtforms tend to have identity issues and feel uncomfortable having to redefine who they are. In addition, not all intrusive-like tulpas are satisfied with their existence or are willing to comply and further develop. I have heard some would rather live in stasis or be dissipated than not continue to be harmful to their system. Ultimately, I don't recommend it, you're better off sticking to dissipation and starting over with a new tulpa later.

 




My guess is you have an intrusive thoughtform that's mostly underdeveloped. In other words, you have a really weak thoughtform you can control and dissipate. The extremely bothersome intrusive thoughtforms create the illusion they have the upper hand as a survival technique. If it didn't trick you into thinking it has control over you, you would have already dissipated it by now.

I have heard one system who had issues with their "tulpa?" scaring them with imposition-like hallucinations. However, I can't verify if the claim is real. If you take any not-for-medicine drugs like caffeine, pot, etc., take a break from them. Severe sleep deprivation can also lead to hallucinations. Regardless, talk to your doctor, they will give you the best advice on how to help you. You don't have to describe your situation in detail, just tell them the symptoms and you can blame dark or intrusive thoughts.

 

The one thing I'm unsure about is the connection between intrusive thoughtforms and hypnosis. My guess is there isn't one, especially since my host never used hypnosis scripts and she has had trouble with all kinds of intrusive thoughts and thoughtforms. However, I am far from an expert on hypnosis scripts and I don't know how damaging hypnosis can be when used to hurt people. Regardless, it's obvious the scripts are bothering you and making you worried, so you should stop using them.

 

Finally, stop trying to create a tulpa. Take a break from tulpa creation until this mess is sorted out. You're better off dissipating this thoughtform than keeping it around.





With that out of the way, here's how you can address the thoughtform you have now:

1) Realize that YOU have ultimate say in what happens to this thoughtform. You are in control, not it. This is half the battle, everything else gets easier once you grasp this.

It can't make any tulpas outside of your awareness, and even if it did spawn more intrusive thoughts, you can dissipate anything new in seconds. If you ignore a fresh intrusive thoughtform that just spawned, it will die off anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes. Even if this intrusive tried to raise an "army", an imagined wonderland eraser is more than enough to clear it out of the way.

2) You have the power to walk away. If you feel really threatened or scared, give yourself a break by doing something else to do to occupy your mind with, like playing a video game, watching a movie, reading a good book, and/or possibly playing a sport like basketball. This will help you calm down and give you more energy to deal with this problem. These activities should give you little to no room to have side thoughts and should grab your full attention. Talking to other people, jogging, crafting, and playing a mindless mobile app also helps when you're calmer.

Make sure you're not dehydrated or hungry. These can also trigger anxiety and intrusive thoughts. Getting more sleep is also important, but that's harder to fix than the other two. If something other than the intrusive thogthtform is making you sleep deprived, you may want to consider adjusting the temperature of your room, not drink before bed if you are waking up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night, and give yourself more time to sleep at night. Any underlying medical problems like depression, anxiety, or sleep disorders can also be a cause for poorer sleep, and a doctor would be able to help you figure out if those apply and to what extent.

If you are really heated and need an immediate escape, get an ice cold wet rag and put it on your face. This may trigger the diver's reflex and force your heart rate to drop temporarily. Having a cold rag on your hot face can feel good too. Personally, I like to have a hand fan and use a cold wet rag.

3) Don't worry about what your intrusive thoughtform has to say. It will say anything and everything to make you scared, stressed, angry, or hurt. Otherwise, it will try to pretend to be "good" so you can keep talking to it. It's more than proven it's trouble, you owe it nothing.

4) Put the intrusive thoughtform in a safe, secure, and isolated place. There's no need to throw them in a cage or a prison cell, all that will do is make the intrusive thoughtform seem more intimidating than it really is. The power to rise above your anger and contain an intrusive thought humanely is really empowering and it proves how strong you actually are. The intrusive may beat on the soundproof steel bolted fiber walls or try to scare you, but no harm will come to them. At this point, you can walk away from them knowing you are safe and it too is safe and locked away.

Hurting the intrusive is just you feeding it your anger, and ultimately not a good idea. You're not really hurting it when you imagine yourself hurting an intrusive thoughtform, plus it doesn't care. One of my host's thoughtforms was extremely violent and fed off of using violence against my host or being hurt himself. Anger is anger and fear is fear, and as long as it seems threatening it will play on you wanting to kill it. If you're really too angry to deal with it, that's okay. Give yourself a break, you need it.




Over time, the intrusive thought will start to die off. It will happen quietly, and most of the dissipation will take place when you have moved on from thinking about it. It may help to shift the blame of your near suicidal experience on depression or anxiety so you can take the thoughtform out of the picture entirely and help dissipate it faster. If you don't give it credit for hurting you, you won't need to remember it. It doesn't deserve to be remembered.

If the intrusive thought comes back or pop up out of the blue, don't panic, that's normal and it may happen a bunch of times for awhile. Just put it back in its safe room and think about something else. Over time, the times it comes back to bother you will decrease until it stops entirely.

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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Thanks for the above comment, I have a few questions. First, an intrusive thoughtform seems to be what it is. It's always tricking me, lying to me, and I can never tell what is helping or hurting it. There are some important things I need to know:

1. It claims that when I think to myself, I am talking to it, which means thinking to myself is helping to sustain it. Is this true? Is avoiding thinking to myself actually making it stronger?

2. This is going to sound strange, but it does its best to "cover up" my inner voice by being loud or overlaying its own over mine in a weird way. It makes thinking for myself difficult.

3. It has, at some points, claimed to be able to talk to itself to sustain itself. I doubt this, but I wanted to mention this.

4. Do you have any further advice or activities to help dissipate it? Are there any activities to avoid to prevent making it stronger? Does talking to it make it stronger.

 

Once again, I wanted to say thanks for everyone responding. That label "intrusive thoughtform" fits it to a T. At this point, it has a pretty much one track mind and can't be reasoned with. If I just need to wait to have it dissipate, that is a huge relief. Maybe after some rest, I'll post the full story as thanks. I knew about tulpas before this, but didn't really expect to be introduced into the community this way.

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2 hours ago, Ice_M said:

1. It claims that when I think to myself, I am talking to it, which means thinking to myself is helping to sustain it. Is this true? Is avoiding thinking to myself actually making it stronger?

 

If you're thinking to yourself, no. Talking to yourself does not affect intrusive thoughts. You may cause the intrusive thought to wake up if you think about it, but with some practice you can thinking about the thought without waking it up.

 

2 hours ago, Ice_M said:

2. This is going to sound strange, but it does its best to "cover up" my inner voice by being loud or overlaying its own over mine in a weird way. It makes thinking for myself difficult.

 

I guess it's trying to dominate the conversation? You have the power to take its voice by forcing it to whisper, and then the intrusive is distracted by you muting it. I don't recall any of our intrusive thoughtforms doing that, you'll have to experiment with that.
 

2 hours ago, Ice_M said:

3. It has, at some points, claimed to be able to talk to itself to sustain itself. I doubt this, but I wanted to mention this.

 

It can't.

 

2 hours ago, Ice_M said:

4. Do you have any further advice or activities to help dissipate it? Are there any activities to avoid to prevent making it stronger? Does talking to it make it stronger.

 

Talking to it doesn't make it stronger, it just maintains the thoughform and it hurts. Technically, the older an intrusive thought is, the weaker it gets. Eventually you get tired of it, and the longer you are exposed to the intrusive thought, the more resilient you become. It's like playing a horror game and after dying over and over again it becomes a rage game, soon the scares are not scary anymore and it's just frustrating.

As for dissipation, it's basically a waiting game combined with healing from the last couple months. Recovery from your feelings towards this thing can happen really quickly or you may need weeks or months to sort out your feelings. Sorting out your feelings is not required, but it will make dissipation a little bit easier.

Taking care of your body and even spending more time on things you enjoy will help a lot.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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Sorry for no update yesterday, just had a few questions and comments.  First, I know it varies, but how long does it take for an intrusive thoughtform (assuming it is one) to dissipate. The only thing it does is emotionally abuse me and try to make me panic, but I feel like it's having less effect over time. It sometimes claims that it will never go away. Are there cases where a thoughtform, tulpa, etc, are permanent?

 

Also, One problem I have is that it always trys to drown out my inner voice if I do anything like try thinking or reading to myself. Even if I can't hear myself think, is it still dissipating? This whole thing has been very confusing to me. Another thing that is annoying is that when I try to read or think about something, it always inturrupts, saying something like, "no, you're reading to me" or, "no, you're talking to me" when reading or thinking to myself, respectively.

 

Basically, I'm unclear on the idea and concept of dissipation. Are "active" activities like reading, thinking to yourself, having a conversation with someone, etc, better for this? Or are things that are less active still effective too (like watching tv, video games, etc).

 

I haven't read very much on these forums, so I don't know if there is an exact science to this, but I do feel a lot better after talking to you guys about this. I'm not sure how long this intrusive thoughtform will be with me, but I feel I at least owe you guys an explanation of what happened to me those two months. It's a strange, almost unbelievable story, but It might take me some time to recover. Really, thanks for everyone who responded.

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20 hours ago, Ice_M said:

 First, I know it varies, but how long does it take for an intrusive thoughtform (assuming it is one) to dissipate. The only thing it does is emotionally abuse me and try to make me panic, but I feel like it's having less effect over time. It sometimes claims that it will never go away. Are there cases where a thoughtform, tulpa, etc, are permanent?

 

It's unsurprising that it's claiming it will stay. It won't. If it starts talking to you, put it in a safe place and imagine moving away from it in the mind. Then, it will be easier for you to do something else.

There isn't a set time date for dissipation. I don't want to guess one either because I don't want you to feel like this has to be over with by X date and then lose confidence when that doesn't happen. All I can tell you is the more progress you make, the weaker it gets.
 

20 hours ago, Ice_M said:

Also, One problem I have is that it always trys to drown out my inner voice if I do anything like try thinking or reading to myself. Even if I can't hear myself think, is it still dissipating? This whole thing has been very confusing to me. Another thing that is annoying is that when I try to read or think about something, it always inturrupts, saying something like, "no, you're reading to me" or, "no, you're talking to me" when reading or thinking to myself, respectively.

 

Basically, I'm unclear on the idea and concept of dissipation. Are "active" activities like reading, thinking to yourself, having a conversation with someone, etc, better for this? Or are things that are less active still effective too (like watching tv, video games, etc).

 

The basic idea behind dissipation is the intrusive thought will die from not being able to think or take up your attention. In other words, it not thinking will result in its death. Once it is no longer able to think, the next phase is to forget the majority of your experiences with it and only remember the cliff notes of its existence. Once this is achieved, dissipation is complete.

If the intrusive thought is not thinking, it's not around. You thinking in general does not keep it alive.

Reading your post, it sounds like your intrusive has some triggers laid down. These are associations you have made between your activity and the intrusive, which lead to the summoning of it when you do that activity. Unfortunately, it sounds like hearing your own mindvoice is a trigger that causes the intrusive to wake up. Luckily, this can be undone.

To undo it, just calmly think about something else whenever you hear the intrusive thoughtform speaking. It may feel like a back and forth, but continuing to focus on the other activity such as reading will weaken the intrusive's voice and train your brain to associate reading with sitting down to read. Over time, you will train yourself that your mindvoice is for letting your thoughts wander or doing tasks like reading, not to talk to your intrusive. As a result, the trigger to summon your intrusive thought weakens. Eventually, the trigger will be overwritten and you won't be bothered by it suddenly popping up anymore. If you are really having a hard time with this process, go ahead and take a break by playing a video game or watching TV.

Doing something like watching TV or playing a video game will be more helpful because people generally don't think much when playing a game. You will probably be more focused on the game than what's going on in your head. However, everyone is different. If you don't think TV invests all of your attention, find another activity that does.


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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