Gateway Systems and Soulbonds

[Moon Voilo]

17 hours ago, ZenAndTheSloth said:

I'm not obligated to respect other people's religious ideas; I'm obligated to allow them to practice them in peace, and only if they are not doing harm to themselves and others with their beliefs. This is a discussion space and the topic is distinctly about the validity of these things. I hope I have treated the subject with enough care, but that will not stop me from dissecting negative and delusional parts of other people's religious ideas, just because they're religious. By the extremes of that reasoning I am not allowed to disrespect human sacrifice and cult behaviour.

 

You aren't a psychologist so you don't get to decide what is and is not a delusion. If you knew the definition of a delusion you'd know that gateway systems do not fall under them.

[abyssalsystem]

Ah yes, delusional. The way to invalidate others experiences while also being ableist.

 

- Nightshade (Not a tulpa but a different type of headmate)

[Zen 禅]

33 minutes ago, Moon Voilo said:

You aren't a psychologist so you don't get to decide what is and is not a delusion. If you knew the definition of a delusion you'd know that gateway systems do not fall under them.

Delusion is not a diagnostic term, so, yes, I very much do. What I don't get to decide is whether someone has psychosis or schizophrenia. If someone is ignoring reality or otherwise holding an idiosyncratic belief, they are delusional, full stop. That has nothing to do with mental disorders. A vast majority of humans hold delusions about something. We are exceptionally good at holding idiosyncratic or compartmentalized beliefs.

 

But more importantly, don't tell me what I get to decide. I'm not going to refrain from telling you that you are wrong just because you've decided you don't like it.

 

33 minutes ago, abyssalsystem said:

The way to invalidate others experiences while also being ableist.

 

The term refers to beliefs, and not to experiences at all. What I don't appreciate is being called bigoted because you think your experiences trump science. Nobody has contradicted your lived experiences, humans can feel whatever they want at any time, tulpamancy, autosuggestion and hypnosis are an expression of that. It is however, perfectly valid to tell someone that they are wrong for believing in magic because they've caused their brain to experience a magical being contacting them with those mechanisms.

Edited September 1, 2022 by ZenAndTheSloth

[Moon Voilo]

1 hour ago, ZenAndTheSloth said:

Delusion is not a diagnostic term, so, yes, I very much do. What I don't get to decide is whether someone has psychosis or schizophrenia. If someone is ignoring reality or otherwise holding an idiosyncratic belief, they are delusional, full stop. That has nothing to do with mental disorders. A vast majority of humans hold delusions about something. We are exceptionally good at holding idiosyncratic or compartmentalized beliefs.

 

But more importantly, don't tell me what I get to decide. I'm not going to refrain from telling you that you are wrong just because you've decided you don't like it.

 

 

The term refers to beliefs, and not to experiences at all. What I don't appreciate is being called bigoted because you think your experiences trump science. Nobody has contradicted your lived experiences, humans can feel whatever they want at any time, tulpamancy, autosuggestion and hypnosis are an expression of that. It is however, perfectly valid to tell someone that they are wrong for believing in magic because they've caused their brain to experience a magical being contacting them with those mechanisms.

Delusion very much is a diagnostic term. You are saying that people who are gateway systems are mentally ill. You don't get to decide that. "If someone is ignoring reality or otherwise holding an idiosyncratic belief" yes, but if that cannot be explained by another thing such as a religious or spiritual belief. Guess what, gateway systems are a spiritual belief. It's right there in the dsm-5. If you're gonna play armchair psychologist, at least research what the diagnostic criteria are for the stuff you are diagnosing internet strangers with.

 

You cannot decide to diagnose complete strangers with a serious disorder and not expect someone to comment on it. 

 

Also even if gateway systems were delusional, telling a delusional person that their belief isn't real is dangerous at best, deathly at worst.

[Zen 禅]

11 minutes ago, Moon Voilo said:

Delusion very much is a diagnostic term. You are saying that people who are gateway systems are mentally ill.

No I didn't. This is a brazen lie or you don't understand what a diagnosis is. Particular delusions are a symptom. Sadness is a symptom of depression. Do you not understand that distinction?

 

Most of humanity holds delusions. Including religious ones. Including ones about their own ego. Including logical fallacies.

 

Once again: Where did I diagnose gateway systems with a psychotic disorder? Where did I even imply they had such a thing? Where did I diagnose them with schizophrenria or a schizotypal disorder? Can you quote that? Maybe you'd like to imply I said it was a dissociative disorder, like OSDD or DID? No?

Please stop talking out your ass and insulting me because you feel personally attacked. It's so transparent as to be pathetic.

Edited September 1, 2022 by ZenAndTheSloth

[abyssalsystem]

7 minutes ago, ZenAndTheSloth said:

No I didn't. This is a brazen lie or you don't understand what a diagnosis is. Particular delusions are a symptom. Sadness is a symptom of depression. Do you not understand that distinction?

 

Most of humanity holds delusions. Including religious ones. Including ones about their own ego. Including logical fallacies.

I am going to say one last thing before dropping out completely: You have 0 idea of mental health. Everyone's viewpoints have flaws in them including yours and your viewpoints are becoming harmful to certain communities.

[Zen 禅]

Just now, abyssalsystem said:

I am going to say one last thing before dropping out completely: You have 0 idea of mental health. Everyone's viewpoints have flaws in them including yours and your viewpoints are becoming harmful to certain communities.

If you're not going to contribute anything meaningful and just offer platitudes and statements about how I don't understand you like an upset teenager don't bother. I have studied enough about mental health to know you're spouting meaningless nonsense.

[Moon Voilo]

10 minutes ago, ZenAndTheSloth said:

No I didn't. This is a brazen lie or you don't understand what a diagnosis is. Particular delusions are a symptom. Sadness is a symptom of depression. Do you not understand that distinction?

 

Most of humanity holds delusions. Including religious ones. Including ones about their own ego. Including logical fallacies.

 

Once again: Where did I diagnose gateway systems with a psychotic disorder? Where did I even imply they had such a thing? Where did I diagnose them with schizophrenria or a schizotypal disorder? Can you quote that? Maybe you'd like to imply I said it was a dissociative disorder, like OSDD or DID? No?

Please stop talking out your ass and insulting me because you feel personally attacked. It's so transparent as to be pathetic.

I don't feel personally attacked and I'd rather not have assumptions made about me. I've also never insulted you, if you feel personally attacked by me calling you out then you might need to do some reflection. First off, diagnosis is different around the world, in my country delusions are a disorder you can get diagnosed with but that doesn't matter. You cannot be diagnosed with delusions as a symptom either if the set belief is due to a religious or spiritual belief or generally culture based. Directly out of the dsm-5. 

[Moon Voilo]

4 minutes ago, ZenAndTheSloth said:

If you're not going to contribute anything meaningful and just offer platitudes and statements about how I don't understand you like an upset teenager don't bother. I have studied enough about mental health to know you're spouting meaningless nonsense.

Ah ageism, great fallacy.

[Zen 禅]

That's broadly inaccurate. Do you think schizophrenics or psychotics with religious ideations are not diagnosed with schizophrenia or psychosis? You do know I presume that OSDD specifically has a category for those whose identities has been changed via cult-like religious behaviour?

The criteria you are talking about do not exist in a vacuum, and they exist to protect regular religious experiences, which include dissociative events and other interesting events, including hallucinations from being clinicized because of how extremely common they are. They are considered as factors. All of this you would know, if you knew how diagnosis works.

 

Also, don't sit there are pretend "delusion" is a disorder in your country. It's either not, or you really do live in a place with no understanding of modern medical psychology. You are talking about a colloquial word at best.