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14 hours ago, ZenAndTheSloth said:

The word delusional is not a diagnosis. You are the one applying the diagnostic criteria in the DSM-V to something; That's diagnosis. How many times do I have to repeat this for you?

It's still not okay to say people are suffering from a delusion. You are not a therapist.

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9 hours ago, Michael Blackwater said:

I have no stakes in this argument but I was able to find this with a ten second Google search. If the facts of this being an actual diagnosis are in their favor it's in their favor regardless of opinion. This doesn't invalidate your statements of delusion as a common term but it does make this quoted statement wrong.

I see, thank you for the clarification, yes, it seems to be a catch-all under the psychotic disorders section in a similar way to OSDD for dissociative disorders. I was deluded on this statement.

 

28 minutes ago, Moon Voilo said:

It's still not okay to say people are suffering from a delusion. You are not a therapist.

According to what exactly? Your hurt feelings? Misguided empathy? There is a very specific reason I should not diagnose someone with, say, delusional disorder. But I've repeatedly clarified that's not what I'm doing.

 

If someone was a danger to themselves and others due to a delusion, and this was clear and obvious, by your reasoning I would not be allowed to inform anyone because that would be me saying they're delusional.

 

If I was in a debate and my opponent decided to say the world was flat, am I not entitled to point out their delusion with counterevidence?

 

You're completely talking out your ass with this. I don't know what else to tell you at this point so I'm going to disengage. You simply are not listening to the simple fact that therapy has nothing to do with this discussion. Delusion is a basic word in language that sees daily use, and the use of that word isn't somehow "ableist" when it's absolutely vital that we point out our own logical inconsistencies.

Edited by ZenAndTheSloth

Zen - Host.

Mika - Tulpa. The eldest, and a homegrown tupper made with tulpamancy.

Rhys - Tulpa. Initially a Literary Thoughtform of my own creation.

Asterion - Tulpa. Literary, I suppose? Mythological egregore, maybe? He's The Minotaur.

If text is uncoloured, presume Zen is talking. We go by he/him.

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On 9/2/2022 at 11:50 AM, ZenAndTheSloth said:

I see, thank you for the clarification, yes, it seems to be a catch-all under the psychotic disorders section in a similar way to OSDD for dissociative disorders. I was deluded on this statement.

 

According to what exactly? Your hurt feelings? Misguided empathy? There is a very specific reason I should not diagnose someone with, say, delusional disorder. But I've repeatedly clarified that's not what I'm doing.

 

If someone was a danger to themselves and others due to a delusion, and this was clear and obvious, by your reasoning I would not be allowed to inform anyone because that would be me saying they're delusional.

 

If I was in a debate and my opponent decided to say the world was flat, am I not entitled to point out their delusion with counterevidence?

 

You're completely talking out your ass with this. I don't know what else to tell you at this point so I'm going to disengage. You simply are not listening to the simple fact that therapy has nothing to do with this discussion. Delusion is a basic word in language that sees daily use, and the use of that word isn't somehow "ableist" when it's absolutely vital that we point out our own logical inconsistencies.

 

1 Telling delusional people they are experiencing a delusion is dangerous to deathly, so no, if your opponent decided to say the world was flat, you shouldn't tell them they are experiencing a delusion, because if they are, great job, you just put their life in danger. 

 

2 You do not have the authority to say if someone is experiencing a delusion or not. 

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1 hour ago, Moon Voilo said:

1 Telling delusional people they are experiencing a delusion is dangerous to deathly, so no, if your opponent decided to say the world was flat, you shouldn't tell them they are experiencing a delusion, because if they are, great job, you just put their life in danger. 

 

2 You do not have the authority to say if someone is experiencing a delusion or not. 

[Citation Needed]

 

No. Just no. Neither of those things are true. Telling people they are wrong doesn't endanger their lives, stop being dramatic.

Zen - Host.

Mika - Tulpa. The eldest, and a homegrown tupper made with tulpamancy.

Rhys - Tulpa. Initially a Literary Thoughtform of my own creation.

Asterion - Tulpa. Literary, I suppose? Mythological egregore, maybe? He's The Minotaur.

If text is uncoloured, presume Zen is talking. We go by he/him.

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On 9/5/2022 at 2:52 PM, ZenAndTheSloth said:

[Citation Needed]

 

No. Just no. Neither of those things are true. Telling people they are wrong doesn't endanger their lives, stop being dramatic.

Telling a delusional person they are experiencing a delusion is more than just telling them they are wrong, it can cause panic attacks, force them deeper into the delusion and make them a danger to themselves. Reality checking should only ever be done by a professional in a controlled environment under specific circumstances. Not an internet stranger. 

https://aegleseeker.tumblr.com/post/691889804843106304/does-reality-checking-ever-help-do-delusions-ever This is someone who both expiriences delusions and is very educated on the topic explaining the dangers of reality checking.

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At this point you're just repeating yourself about an irrelevant topic. Literally nobody said anything about engaging with psychotically disordered individuals - You brought that topic up. You are cherrypicking concepts in therapy to justify the concept of shutting down free speech and debate. To be frank with you: Fuck off with that. I'm not going to stop telling anyone they are wrong just because you think I should or because you go on a little tirade about how it's inherently dangerous. Calling out delusions in the context I was actually talking about in the vast majority of humans does absolutely no harm and you pretending that all humans have mental disorders and therefore we are not allowed to talk about delusions, is deeply disingenuous.

 

I've no further interest in listening to you conflate casual use of a common word with therapy. I've repeatedly told you that exactly that is not what I am talking about. As you are continuing to ignore what I am saying so I am now going to disengage. Please stop responding to me at this point, I do not wish to further engage with someone who is simply ignoring what I'm telling them.

Zen - Host.

Mika - Tulpa. The eldest, and a homegrown tupper made with tulpamancy.

Rhys - Tulpa. Initially a Literary Thoughtform of my own creation.

Asterion - Tulpa. Literary, I suppose? Mythological egregore, maybe? He's The Minotaur.

If text is uncoloured, presume Zen is talking. We go by he/him.

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If you feel like your conversation is going nowhere and the other person stopped listening or engaging maybe take a break from the topic. Last-wording rarely finishes a debate. This has also strayed far from the original topic. If you are interested in further debating the clinical definition of delusions let's make that a separate topic. I don't want to shut down an interesting deep dive but let's beware of straying too close to personal attacks please.

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